MazdaRx7Racer4Life

check this out --

http://www.2112systems.com/~ghawk/rotary.html

bingoboy

mmm rotary steam engine, sounds fun

engine runs on water and hydrogen . i wonder how expensive hydrogen is.

Icemark

Mazda actually had both a RX-01 and a Miata with a 13B in it running on hydrogen as testbeds back in the mid 90's. The Mazda cars however ran on hydrogen as the fuel, rather than what they are trying to do with that rotary in the article. It would not be surprised at all if a Hydrogen powered Renesis motor vehicle will be available in CA in the next couple of years.

Hydrogen is actually cheaper to manufacture than gasoline/petrol its the delivery system that is causeing a hitch (the gas station). Hopefully that hitch will be over with soon, since several manufactures are selling Hydrogen powered or Fuel cell hydrogen powered vehicles for fleet testing in government and utility use in CA and putting in Hydrogen filling stations for them.

bingoboy

What ever happened to that propane injection stuff that was mentioned in here awhile back. Did anyone get that setup on their 7? Sounded like an interestin idea.

adamlewis

The rotary was originally designed to run hydrogen...

deadRX7Conv

Most engines can run on any fuel.
But, certain combustion chambers suit certain fuels better.
Hydrogen actually combusts better in a rotary than in a boinger.

The rotary was original designed as a pump like most types of engines.

I haven't seen how hydrogen production is cheaper than gasoline/other fuel production. Hydrogen production requires electricity and a hydrogen source(water, propane, petroleum etc). It will not be cheaper once we figure in all the fed/state taxes. And, it won't be any cleaner.

For example, a gallon of gas in RI today has a $.31 cent state tax, and a $.19 federal tax. The cheapest gas that I can find is $1.42 a gallon today. Toss in a $.50 tax on a gallon of hydrogen and it won't be cheap.

JoeZoom

iTrader: (1)

<And, it won't be any cleaner. >
correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the by-product of hydrogen...water????

haroguy

um, hydrogen isn't cleaner? where did you go to school? would you rather drink gasoline or water? lol hahahaha where do these people come from? lol

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

where were you this weekend beitch. me and big L were waitin around for ya in oldham county.

autocrash

Uhmm.. well... yeah,... WHEN its burned AT STOICH in OXYGEN...
When it's not, well, it makes other nasties....


BTW, Gasoline (in a refined form) when burned at stoich in oxygen results in water and carbon dioxide.. fairly clean too... ok so CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but it aint poisonous...

deadRX7Conv

So, it produces steam as an exhaust.
And how do you produce hydrogen? Massive amount of electricity from coal/oil/gas burning electric power plants.
Or clean burning nuclear power plants--where does the nuclear waste go?
One day you morons will find what the real sources(of cheap hydrogen) are and the evil byproducts that those sources produce. Until then-- get educated.
And, water isn't the primary source for hydrogen. Propane/CNG/Gasoline/Petroleum and other not so clean sources are.
The number 1 lobby for electric cars were electric companies. And the new number 1 lobby for hydrogen cars is electric companies. Centralized electricity production is inefficient. Do some research. I am glad that California had power outages. It nixed all the mandatory electric cars that they were suppose to be driving by now. But, the new focus is hydrogen. Another farce for the common American peasant who doesn't know any better.

autocrash

5 things to say to you:
-Solar
-Wind
-Tidal
-Hydroelectric
-Chill the **** out, no amount of preaching is gonna change the minds of your "common american peasants". If you were "smart" you would have realized this by now... but.. apparently... you haven't... ... too bad, eh?

BTW, most canadian peasants are as bad as american peasants in their ignorance.

Oh, and I'd rather be a peasant than a jackass

deadRX7Conv

Not common/popular enough yet. Maybe in 20+ years. Maybe if water was the only source for the hydrogen. So, has green power made it in the double digits yet for total electricity production in the US?

CO2 aint poisonous? Try breathing it exclusively for awhile

I am same when replying to same........

I was a jackass to joezoom. It is a by product of combustion but not of production.

But, an equal to you and haroguy--definitely sarcastic to those who are.

JoeZoom

iTrader: (1)

Just meant it as a comment...did not mean to ruffle feathers

Blowtus

So... is producing Hydrogen more or less harmful to the environment than producing petrol? Is hydrogen a sustainable resource? does it produce less emissions when used to power a motor vehicle? as far as my little knowledge goes, it would seem to say that hydrogen as a fuel is a very good thing...

Charlie

fuzzi

i agree with the above statement producing hydrogen or electricity does pollute just as much as the emissions from petrol based cars... someone mentioned hydroelectricity.. i come from a province where hydro is used extensively.. there are huge ecological effects of hydro electricity.... no matter how you go about making power there is going to be a by-product..

bingoboy

so if it produces water, would the water just sit in our exhaust pieces and iron engine components while our cars arent running? that sounds un-good

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

OK I've read all of these posts - First off...we are talking about about running the engine from hydrogen gas...can I just hook it up? or what? Will it work? Why? or Why Not?

Second...all the different sources mentioned are means of storing energy...not "generating". No one has mentioned how by removing elemental sulfer from green algae causes the photosynthesis process to produce hydrogen instead of oxygen. Photosynthesis,Wind (difference between hot & cold & night & day from earths rotation), Hydrodynamic (rain fall from atmosphere accumulated at a higher point above sea level uses potential energy from gravity)& Solar Cells are all products of the sun & do not directly originate on our planet & are therefore "clean" energy(not counting the means of manufacturing these devices). Fossil fuels are chemically stored hydrocarbons from dead plants. This is energy stored chemically & released by burning which combines the hydrogen & oxygen & releases the excess carbons(basically). So it is all really the same stuff!! Just a different means of storing solar energy. Some methods of extraction are more efficient & environmentally friendlier than others. It becomes of matter of existing infrastructure vs. refitting for a new process. We should try to refit for a more efficient means of storing, transporting & converting energy into motion. Which is why this forum is here...I guess...we want our RX7's to convert energy into motion faster & more efficiently!!

Ramses666

Tht1KSguy

Here's some more information for those interested http://www.monito.com/wankel/hydrogen.html The best solution for safe distribution of hydrogen I've seen is from this company. Powerball Technologies Now, if I only had about $100k to dump into a prototype.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Yeah...I was looking at that earlier.. it seems that storing hydrogen chemically was supposedly better than in a gaseous state...but not much mention of actually hooking it up to the motor.

Ramses666

deadRX7Conv

No ruffled feathers. Didn't mean to be rude to you with your question. Made the mistake of jumbling everthing together up above.

So, what happens to the coating/skin? And, what do we do with the NaOH? Filling up is easier than tank swapping/cleaning. If I had a $100k, I would take any EV out there and cover it in lumeloid for constinuous charging while I was at work. This way, I wouldn't have to worry about battery dying on the ride home. Then, I plug it into a wind turbine for overnight charging in order to get to work the next day.

I prefer the non chemically method of storage. Solid, liquid or gaseous is best. What amount of hydrogen, chemically stored, will provide a reasonable range?
N20, CNG, Propane, 02 etc are stored. If it is safe for them, it could be made safe for H.

You can't just hook it up.
It will work only if you get the air/fuel ratio and timing just right. This requires major engineering, testing, for the most power, efficiency etc.
There are several hydrogen generators on the market that improve power/mpg/emissions etc for gasoline/diesel engines. They eat alot of alternator power(not much to spare in the Rx). It also produces just a mininum amount of hydrogen and supposedly acts like a catalyst for the fuel. This is how they claim that it increases power more than what it uses.

Trying to use more chemicals to produce hydrogen does't help out the whole purpose of using hydrogen.
It all goes back to the question, which company do we want getting rich? or which company has the best lobbyists? Not, whats best for the consumer.

We need to slowly adjust to the use of hydrogen by making it more available. Like any technology, adjustments and gradual change will make it painless. A jump into the unknown is a big financial risk. We should force a slow switch over or eliminate certain normal fuel powered devices. Hydrogen can be quickly used in small engines(chainsaws, lawnmowers etc). It could be sold in a bottle like propane etc and sold everywhere. Then we could move up to hydrogen gas barbecue grills(larger tank). As the demand for H increase, so will the supply. Hydrogen could also be used in place of natural gas dryers, propane refrigerators, heaters, hot water tanks etc. There is already a reasonable distribution network in place(big cities have natural gas pipelines, boonies have propane delivery). Switching to hydrogen should be gradual. Jumping into it with millions of vehicle sales a year is a quick jump into disaster.
Convenience must be considered.

Hydrogen, good enough for the Hindenburg, good enough for me

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com

EX-HONDA

well when the oil runs out, or gets too low and outlawed
hydrogen will sure *** hell beat a electric motors

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

While I'm sure we are all concerned about what & how our society deals with the whole energy supply problem I was more concerned with the actual use of hydrogen in the rotary engine(my 13b to be specific). I think I could probably come up with a way to try it out but I don't have an old engine to play with(like most of us). So I was wondering if anyone who did have the resources would be interested in pursuing some kind of experiment?

I'm good with theory & can talk a good game on most anything, but I am really interested in more realistic information than what my fragile little brain can imagine. It just seems that I would probably be just rehashing stuff thats gone around the mazda design studio already, but maybe I'm wrong. I just kinda figure that anything I can think of probably has been thought of already by rhe people involved at a much more connected level. Does anybody have the inside scoop? or specific knowledge about how the previous work that was done? The purpose of history & record keeping is to avoid having to make the same mistakes over & do the same experiments over again & I really despise having to do redundant stuff.

Ramses666

adamlewis

lol I heard it from him all night tonight at work

Im sorry. Ill be at the next one for sure.

l33trx7

Well you could always add HCl into the equation somewhere. Then we could have marine like salt corrosion in the mohave desert. I kidd i kidd. Seriously though, I think we'll see much MUCH later in the future will be something along the lines of electromagnetic induction and things of that nature powering cars. god that would rock.

/me thinks about an electromagnetic jetcar.