JasonS

iTrader: (62)

I'm reading where some of the FC guys are doing this. Is this right?
~Jason

NMJ87T2

iTrader: (8)

That is a definate NO!!

The sway bars are there to reduce body roll. Reducing body roll helps keep your suspension geometry in proper form. This promotes a larger contact patch of the tire on the road ie...better traction.

need RX7

iTrader: (4)

I think people do it for better doriftos...

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I Find that removing the rear swaybar the car has better wheel travel and better handling. I have not had a rear swaybar for about a year and a half. Check my sig for videos. Of coarse I do alot of road racing and auto X.
Thanks Robert

Icemark

Removing it can give you benefits or losses, it all depends on what the condition of the roads in your area are, and what you are using the car for.

Remember, the stabilizer bar ties the two wheels together. That is it's whole purpose.

If you have a lot of rough or damaged roads, not having a rear stabilizer bar will help maintain contact on the road as chances are the wheels are not hitting the same depression or road damage at the same time. Many off road racers do not use one for this very reason.

On the other hand, doing a lot of freeway travel or smooth road travel, the traction increase and the body roll decrease will allow for considerably better traction. This is similar to the idea that on a skid pad or drag strip, a live axle is often better than independent axles because it locks the wheels together to the body. For example, I used to own a 626 back in the late 90s as my family car. Only the top line V6 model came with a rear stabilizer bar. Adding the V6 stabilizer bar to the car allowed a much quicker car in cornering as well as felt more stable when using on ramps. But going to an aftermarket rear bar, ended up making the rear end much more prone to the same issues it had before any bar was used (understeer at the limit, and poor traction on corners due to weight shift).

Use of a stabilizer bar also increases load handling.

So using one is generally a good thing for street cars, but may be optional for rough roaded areas or some tracks.

And finally the amount bar that is needed will vary based on driving style, driving ability, and conditions.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I disabled and then removed the rear sway bar on my Competition Street Prepared NA and I really liked it with 245/45 RA1 all the way around. Removing it provides a smoother transition into and out of oversteer.

The car had oversteer bias though with bushings, rear toe eliminators, and most importantly the JIC Magic FLT-A2 coilovers.

I put the rear bar back on when I went to 275 rear and 255 front thinking I would have understeer with the stagger, but I was wrong- it actually developed snap oversteer at the limit. I removed the rear bar and it was back to being well behaved at the limit and only mildly oversteer oriented.

With the rear bar on and the 275/255 NT01 it felt like it would roll quite a bit in the turn and pick up the inside rear tire and spin out very quickly around the center of mass. Felt very weird for a FC to do that.

Without the rear bar it would roll a little bit more (look how thin the rear bar is) but would have the good FC progression to oversteer again.

I think it was body roll from all the grip coupled with the sway bar linking the rear wheel movement and the short stroke (very little droop) that conspired to lift the inside rear on cornering.

The rear bar-less set up worked awesome at the next race taking home 1st and 3rd fastest time of day with absolutely no understeer felt. Actually, the first two or three runs the veteran co driver sharing the car took he spun it. Then he got used to the oversteer and beat my time.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

My car is also very neutral with my track setup, which is BFG R1s in 225F 245R, Tein Super Drift coilovers (supposedly made for drifting but they had the spring rates I wanted) an RB front bar and no rear bar.

rexxed

Depends on the way your car is driven. For everyday use point a to b - keep it on!

Frostycrowd

iTrader: (9)

Autox has alot of transitional corners and I will always keep my sway bars on. Some people say they have better luck without but I would rather have flat handling for a solid slalom.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

so many ways you can play with the suspension, dtss eliminators, try playing with aftermarket strut bars, having both front and rear isnt always a good thing tho people tend to think they are a must.

If your still mostly stock suspension, i wouldnt remove the rear bar, the whole car was designed with it in mind. If you plan to do some upgrades to the rear end, give it a shot. http://www.ziptied.com/forums/index....2422#msg132422

NotTTT

Such a blanket statement like that without any real experience or reason behind it makes for bad advice given. Maybe you should try telling that to the dozens of proffesional race teams out there that don't run a rear-bar.

I'm very curious as to what tires and spring rates you're running.

Most trail rigs of any kind also have a disconnectable front sway bar as well to allow the axle to get as much flex as possible to, like you said, maintain traction. Same goes for the FC though. If you have the spring rates and a front stabilizer to keep body roll to a minimum, letting the rear move independantly of each other will allow for better contact patch. Think of the poor SOB with an open diff, soft springs, but dead stiff sway bars. The body rol won't be controlled by the springs enough to keep the inside wheel in good contact causing it to loose traction and forward momentum. Same goes for us guys with the Torsens.

I would add spring rates and tires as well.

That's quite impressive given the power

My point exactly. I would've agreed with your first thought about the stagger giving you some understeer. What diff are you running?

LI FC Greg

My 89 GXL is used for track days and autoX. It has DTSS eliminator bushings, Ground Control coilovers and KYB AGX shocks. I have removed the sway bar and the car is neutral and has far more grip and corner exit traction than with the bar.

You need to remember that with a coilover like Ground Control, you have no negative suspension travel. There is no spring pressure pushing the wheel down. This means a large swaybar will turn your semi trailing arm independent rear suspension into a live axle. With a RB rear sway bar, my car would oversteer at the slightest provocation and would spin the inside tire like crazy on tight corner exits. Without the sway bar, the wheels stay in contact with the ground and the LSD can do its job. The spring rate and the front sway bar takes care of the body roll.

If you do want a rear swaybar, use the smallest one possible (from a 4 lug car)

NotTTT

What spring rates are you running?

stock end links too. just for the most slop possible. Although, with coilovers and stiff springs, I'm not to sure that the suspension would even travel enough for the bar to get really torques due to all the slop in the bushings.

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I run a 245/45/17 kumho v710 in the front and 275/40/17 kumho v710 in the rear. As for suspension Jic flta2 custom valved w/ 8kg(450lbs) in the front and 6kg (375 lbs) in the rear. Rb swaybar in the front and complete poly kit on the suspension,ect,ect.Thanks Robert

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

It is just a tired stock S4 LSD. That helps prevent understeer though in some situations. In my SM2 car in the low speed sections in 2nd (to control wheelspin/oversteer) if I got on the gas to early it would lock the rear end and push into understeer.

Black91n/a

It all comes down to getting the suspension to work AS A SYSTEM. Some setups work fine without, others not so much. It depends on a lot of factors such as shocks, springs, wheels and tires, power levels, track surface, etc.

Running without the rear bar is common for race preped FC's with stiff springs. Saves weight too.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Oooh, that is good to hear. I was looking into the V710 seriously before I went with the NT01 and I thought that the stagger might be too much since they don't offer a 255/40. Well also, the whole reason I started driving DOT Rs was to get my SM2 car to hook up on the street and the V710 don't look like a street tire to the cops.,,

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

You know that SM2 is know SSM. Thats the class im running. Kumho is coming out with a 245/40/17 and many different sizes this year. As for cops bothering you about your tires , the v710s are dot approve.
Thanks Robert

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Heres a pic of one of the events.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

I was a fan when I had softer springs, now however I have it removed.

ilike2eatricers

i used to my run my FC had the track with the rear RB sway bar and it was too stiff. downgraded back to stock turbo swaybar and still had trouble with tires gripping. finally went with no sway bar and never looked back

just try disconnecting it and see how you like it. doesnt cost you anything

NotTTT

I had a tired old S4 rear that I shimmed slightly. Worst thing that I ever did. Very excited about running the torsen. From the 20 miles I've put on it so far, it's ridiculously smooth.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

i recall reading somewhere that the rear suspension's design binds up more than it cooperates.. something like that.

patfat

I take mine off when it rains at the track. I find I have a more neutral feeling and can get back on the power sooner.

CyborgRyu

iTrader: (8)

I think I will try it out.