Chance

Is this stuff worth dumping into my radiator?

fc3s.org

That stuff is bad ***. I noticed quite a bit of decline in engine temps with its use. My measurements were taken with an aftermarket gauge. I use it in all of my RX-7's

Chance

Thanks. That's what I wanted to know.

jimmyv13

Do you use it only in the summer? What mixture of water/af do you use?
I use 50/50 in the summer.......lately I have noticed my temp guage going up, when I'm on the highway, past halfway. When I get onto regular roads with stop-n-go traffic, the temp returns to 1/4? Do I have a cooling problem? Wrong mixture? Would Water Wetter help?

0piston

iTrader: (9)

Word of *caution. Dave at KD rotary says water wetter eats the coolant seals after time. Anyone else want to substantiate his claims. I respect Dave's opinions on rotary related items so I'm having a hard time not believing him. So if it does generally degrade coolants seals over time what about Royal purple's purple ice or Evans cooling liquid. Does it have the same constituants as watter wetter. Its hard because the only way to test this is with a good long term study. We all know that the overheating/coolant seals are one of the weak links to a rotary engines longevity. So what about Hayes Teflon coolant seals could that be another safe guard?

sorry for my rambling, just trying to be a better rotary powered consumer :p

87jap951

Its a good question inquiring RX-7 owners need to know! I know a local RX-7 Shop here uses it...But long term, it would be good to know! Anyone been using for a long period?

Chance

Thanks for chiming in. After hearing that, I think I'll pass.

stinkfist

I don't know about long term but we use it in both of our first gen race cars. It does keep temps down.
For street use, whats the point? Do you have a cooling problem? If not, don't bother. If so, fix it now unless you want to buy a new engine. If you want to use it for a temparary band aid Then I seriously doubt that it would do any harm.
If you don't have a cooling problem and you want your engine to run cooler then get a Mazda 160 deg thermostat. They make them I have one and my aftermarket temp guage NEVER reads above 165. It only gets that high in traffic and usually stays around 158-160. This is in my 1st gen though. I don't have an aftermarket guage for my T2 yet.

Mike

fc3s.org

What was Dave referring to as "time"? As in how long does he claim that it takes? I have used it in our race car since it was assembled, and we just tossed an apex seal last month, so when we rebuild it, we can take a peak and see what is going on in there. I have also used it in my 91 vert for some time now, and there are no indications of any trouble. I have also had long talks and threads on this topic in various RX-7 email lists, and no one has ever had any first hand proof that this was true, but there are always possibilities. With a good cooling system, it shouldn't be needed like stinkfist said. I run my 91 vert (stock internal motor) with a OEM 180F thermostat, stock radiator, stock fan/shroud, and I ran my A/C in Phoenix this past summer when the ambient temps were around 110F-115F and the car didn't even creep on the aftermarket gauge. I use 75% distilled water with 25% coolant and half a bottle of water wetter. I also flush the coolant anually.

On another note, I have some buddies that have used the Prestone stuff that you put in your cooling system, run the car for a few days, then flush the system and they have all had very good luck with it. I'll post something to the forum if I find anything wrong when I rip apart the racecar motor. I think the rest of the cooling system additives are pretty much the same. Maybe just a few variants in them.

Apexi

I'd like to challenge Dave on that comment. He may be right, but I'd like to know for sure, since Water Wetter actually does work well. It is merely a surfactant, which changes the surface tension of water. Anyone who has a background in chemical engineering will know what this stuff is, and how it works, and how little amount you need for it to work.

Check out this article:
Redline "Water Wetter"


Does it really work?


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Does it work? I cannot give a conclusive answer to that question. But I like "Water Wetter" and have been using it in all of my cars for many years now.
What I can say with conviction is that the person who wrote Redline's Technical Information brochure on "Water Wetter" knew what he or she was talking about. I have a Ph.D. in Heat Transfer and have taken a graduate course in Boiling and Condensation. Based on my training I can say that Redline's explanation of their product makes good scientific sense.

First we must dispel a common misconception: "Water Wetter" is not designed to lower your car's bulk coolant temperature. So if you put it in your E30 M3 hoping to see lower operational coolant temp's, then you will probably be disappointed.

"Water Wetter" is designed to reduce hot spots in your cylinder head. It does this by reducing the build-up of water vapor in any superheated areas. The bad thing about having hot spots in your cylinder head (read combustion chamber) is that they can promote pre-ignition - definitely a bad thing. This harks back to Smokey Yunick's theory of "soft combustion chambers". Any sharp edges in your combustion chamber (around valve seats for example) may tend to get very hot (even red hot) during operation. These areas of the combustion chamber can then form local hot spots in the cooling passages. Thus, even though your bulk coolant temperature is well below its boiling point (i.e. your gauge reads just fine), there may be localized boiling in some regions of the coolant tract.

This localized boiling can cause a layer of water vapor to form over the hot spot. This vapor forms an insulative blanket and prevents heat from leaving this area, thus making the hot spot even worse. But reducing the surface tension of the water makes it easier for vapor bubbles to leave the surface of the cylinder head and allows the bubbles to convect heat away from the area. Something that changes the surface tension of a liquid is called a "surfactant". It does not take very much surfactant to significantly change the surface tension of water. Hence, you do not need to add very much "Water Wetter" in order for it to do its job.

An additional benefit of using "Water Wetter" (in conjunction with 100% water) in you cooling system is that water has an extremely high heat capacity. Thus a gallon of 100% water can carry more heat away from you engine than an equivalent gallon of 50/50 water and coolant. Water also has a high thermal conductivity which increases the convection of heat away from the coolant passage walls and into the free stream of the liquid flowing through the passages.

"Water Wetter" does not increase the boiling point of water. Standard automotive coolant does increase the boiling point of the mixture above that of 100% water. But remember that if your cooling system is operating properly, it should never get hot enough to boil (I mean BOIL, not just localized boiling). Raising the boiling point of the coolant in passenger cars is primarily a safety measure, so that if the cooling system is over stressed (climbing a hill on a hot day with AC on), it will not boil over. On performance cars the primary duty of the cooling system is to keep the engine in its optimum temperature range. This is best accomplished with 100% water, because its high heat capacity makes it very efficient at transferring heat.

Performance cars often run relatively high cooling system pressures. This also raises the boiling point of the coolant. But the high system pressure is not used to avoid boiling so much as to allow the engine to operate at a higher temperature for reasons of efficiency. A higher cooling system bulk temperature also allows the use of a smaller radiator (there is a greater driving force to transfer heat from the coolant to the free stream air). Take a look at the E30 M3's "tiny" radiator and you will see what I mean.