Rear Spoiler, LSD, 4 Pot Calipers - Ever on "base" model?
12-31-07, 02:46 PM
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Rear Spoiler, LSD, 4 Pot Calipers - Ever on "base" model?
I have read the FAQ sticky. Just want to confirm 110% I have this right. It has to do with some NASA racing rules.
Did the following items EVER come STANDARD (Not an Option) on ANY Naturally Aspirated 1986 - 1991 RX7?
- LSD (not on base from my research)
- 4 Pot Calipers (not on base from my research)
- Rear Spoiler (research not conclusive)
Did the following items EVER come STANDARD (Not an Option) on ANY Naturally Aspirated 1986 - 1991 RX7?
- LSD (not on base from my research)
- 4 Pot Calipers (not on base from my research)
- Rear Spoiler (research not conclusive)
...........
12-31-07, 03:24 PM
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You could also walk into a dealer and custom order a car if you pre pay. So someone could of had a base with those added special build order.
People do that now here in town with our new Tundra factory (lot of pre orders).
People do that now here in town with our new Tundra factory (lot of pre orders).
12-31-07, 04:15 PM
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The GXL model was not a base model.
The key here is that did ANY of the above 3 listed items come STANDARD on a N/A RX7 in any year 1986-1991?
NASA "....the term OEM will be defined as follows: Any part that is identical in size, shape, and functional characteristics compared to the part that originally came on the vehicle, from the manufacturer, as a standard feature of the base model as it is listed in section 5.2 Base Classifications (factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM)..."
The key here is that did ANY of the above 3 listed items come STANDARD on a N/A RX7 in any year 1986-1991?
NASA "....the term OEM will be defined as follows: Any part that is identical in size, shape, and functional characteristics compared to the part that originally came on the vehicle, from the manufacturer, as a standard feature of the base model as it is listed in section 5.2 Base Classifications (factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM)..."
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03-04-08, 10:24 AM
#9
The GXL model was not a base model.
The key here is that did ANY of the above 3 listed items come STANDARD on a N/A RX7 in any year 1986-1991?
NASA "....the term OEM will be defined as follows: Any part that is identical in size, shape, and functional characteristics compared to the part that originally came on the vehicle, from the manufacturer, as a standard feature of the base model as it is listed in section 5.2 Base Classifications (factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM)..."
The key here is that did ANY of the above 3 listed items come STANDARD on a N/A RX7 in any year 1986-1991?
NASA "....the term OEM will be defined as follows: Any part that is identical in size, shape, and functional characteristics compared to the part that originally came on the vehicle, from the manufacturer, as a standard feature of the base model as it is listed in section 5.2 Base Classifications (factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM)..."
03-04-08, 10:40 AM
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You can try and lobby Greg with NASA the PT/TT director. I just got done fighting for the 5th/6th port actuator, rod and sleeve removal for 0 points and VDI wired open for 0 points. I am sure he doesn't want another fight from me right now 
In my reading of the rules, the LSD, spoiler and 4 pots all require points.
From the PT rules (which I think TT are the same)
"All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the basic trim package of a model (or in the non-basic trim package specifically listed below in 5.2 to assign a PT base class), must be assessed modification points as in Section 5.3."
Cite the rule that you think we can use to put on 4 pots, LSD and factory spoiler with no point hit. It works for SCCA IT but not NASA PT/TT.
In my reading of the rules, the LSD, spoiler and 4 pots all require points.
From the PT rules (which I think TT are the same)
"All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the basic trim package of a model (or in the non-basic trim package specifically listed below in 5.2 to assign a PT base class), must be assessed modification points as in Section 5.3."
Cite the rule that you think we can use to put on 4 pots, LSD and factory spoiler with no point hit. It works for SCCA IT but not NASA PT/TT.
03-04-08, 11:16 AM
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GTU, GXL, Turbo, Vert, GTUs models...
GTU was base model.
LSD - Turbo, GTUs
4 pots - GXL, Turbo, Vert, GTUs
Spoiler - ?
03-04-08, 11:59 AM
#14
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Base models varied per year.
In 86 and 87 the Base model was just that. It was just called the RX-7 and came with 4 lug wheels single piston brakes, no aero, no LSD.
In 88 the base model was the RX-7 SE. It also came with 4 lug wheels single piston brakes, no aero, no LSD.
Then in 89-90 the base model was the RX-7 GTU. It jumped up to 5 lug wheels but was still single piston brakes, did have a rear spoiler, but still no LSD.
In 91 the base model was called just the RX-7 Coupe, and it could be ordered with factory installed A or B packages as options and those packages added the 4 piston front brakes and vented rear brakes. All came with a rear spoiler, but none came with a LSD (except the Turbo- but we were not talking about Turbos).
So maybe that will help further.
If you have a 86 or 87 technically the car could be gotten as a Base model RX-7 with the Sport Package, which would give you the 4 piston front brakes, vented rear brakes, and aero package, but you still didn't get the LSD. This model is referred to here (and around the internet) as the Sport, but the factory window sticker referred to the model as a GS (which was a factory sport package equipped FB model as well). In Canada the Sport was called the GS.
This sticky thread will give you a break down of the models and what they came with: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/specifications-what-did-2nd-generation-rx-7-come-w-options-standard-features-642372/
In 86 and 87 the Base model was just that. It was just called the RX-7 and came with 4 lug wheels single piston brakes, no aero, no LSD.
In 88 the base model was the RX-7 SE. It also came with 4 lug wheels single piston brakes, no aero, no LSD.
Then in 89-90 the base model was the RX-7 GTU. It jumped up to 5 lug wheels but was still single piston brakes, did have a rear spoiler, but still no LSD.
In 91 the base model was called just the RX-7 Coupe, and it could be ordered with factory installed A or B packages as options and those packages added the 4 piston front brakes and vented rear brakes. All came with a rear spoiler, but none came with a LSD (except the Turbo- but we were not talking about Turbos).
So maybe that will help further.
If you have a 86 or 87 technically the car could be gotten as a Base model RX-7 with the Sport Package, which would give you the 4 piston front brakes, vented rear brakes, and aero package, but you still didn't get the LSD. This model is referred to here (and around the internet) as the Sport, but the factory window sticker referred to the model as a GS (which was a factory sport package equipped FB model as well). In Canada the Sport was called the GS.
This sticky thread will give you a break down of the models and what they came with: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/specifications-what-did-2nd-generation-rx-7-come-w-options-standard-features-642372/
03-04-08, 12:21 PM
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Thanks Icemark!
So, the rear spoiler from the 89-90 GTU is acceptable to use as "OEM" and recieve no points. The 91 spoiler from the coupe can also be used, without point hit.
The LSD was always an option, point hit applies.
The 4 pots were not on the "base model" but rather available on higher trim levels or as an "option", point hit applies.
I understand the point hit for LSD but having to take points for the 4 pots is kind of crap, any NASA racers find a way not to (without cheating )?
So, the rear spoiler from the 89-90 GTU is acceptable to use as "OEM" and recieve no points. The 91 spoiler from the coupe can also be used, without point hit.
The LSD was always an option, point hit applies.
The 4 pots were not on the "base model" but rather available on higher trim levels or as an "option", point hit applies.
I understand the point hit for LSD but having to take points for the 4 pots is kind of crap, any NASA racers find a way not to (without cheating
)?
03-04-08, 12:39 PM
#16
What about the 88 GTU model? It was very similar to the Sport but came with TII seats and the LSD from the GXL model. It also had the 4pot brakes, spoiler and similar interior to the base model.
As for the spoiler, would the 86-87 Sport "duckbill" spoiler require points?
It's rumored to be the only RX spoiler to actually reduce drag.
As for the spoiler, would the 86-87 Sport "duckbill" spoiler require points?
It's rumored to be the only RX spoiler to actually reduce drag.
03-04-08, 01:50 PM
#17
You can try and lobby Greg with NASA the PT/TT director. I just got done fighting for the 5th/6th port actuator, rod and sleeve removal for 0 points and VDI wired open for 0 points. I am sure he doesn't want another fight from me right now
In my reading of the rules, the LSD, spoiler and 4 pots all require points.
From the PT rules (which I think TT are the same)
"All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the basic trim package of a model (or in the non-basic trim package specifically listed below in 5.2 to assign a PT base class), must be assessed modification points as in Section 5.3."
Cite the rule that you think we can use to put on 4 pots, LSD and factory spoiler with no point hit. It works for SCCA IT but not NASA PT/TT.
In my reading of the rules, the LSD, spoiler and 4 pots all require points.
From the PT rules (which I think TT are the same)
"All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the basic trim package of a model (or in the non-basic trim package specifically listed below in 5.2 to assign a PT base class), must be assessed modification points as in Section 5.3."
Cite the rule that you think we can use to put on 4 pots, LSD and factory spoiler with no point hit. It works for SCCA IT but not NASA PT/TT.
With spoiler, you can backdate any other spoiler now without point hit. I think that's how the backdating rule goes, since any RX-7 shares the same base classification.
EDIT: I meant the NA's.
I would say take the hit for the LSD, and try running single piston, non-vented rear brakes with a suitable pad and see how it runs.
Too bad we can't interchange coupe and vert parts and claim the vert as a base.
Last edited by Roen; 03-04-08 at 02:10 PM.
03-04-08, 02:18 PM
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What about the 88 GTU model? It was very similar to the Sport but came with TII seats and the LSD from the GXL model. It also had the 4pot brakes, spoiler and similar interior to the base model.
As for the spoiler, would the 86-87 Sport "duckbill" spoiler require points?
It's rumored to be the only RX spoiler to actually reduce drag.
As for the spoiler, would the 86-87 Sport "duckbill" spoiler require points?
It's rumored to be the only RX spoiler to actually reduce drag.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...23&postcount=5
The 86-87 "duckbill" spoiler was not on the base model.
03-04-08, 02:22 PM
#19
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I see what you're saying.....whoops, I misinterpreted the rules.
With spoiler, you can backdate any other spoiler now without point hit. I think that's how the backdating rule goes, since any RX-7 shares the same base classification.
EDIT: I meant the NA's.
I would say take the hit for the LSD, and try running single piston, non-vented rear brakes with a suitable pad and see how it runs.
Too bad we can't interchange coupe and vert parts and claim the vert as a base.
With spoiler, you can backdate any other spoiler now without point hit. I think that's how the backdating rule goes, since any RX-7 shares the same base classification.
EDIT: I meant the NA's.
I would say take the hit for the LSD, and try running single piston, non-vented rear brakes with a suitable pad and see how it runs.
Too bad we can't interchange coupe and vert parts and claim the vert as a base.
I'm not sure about using any other NA spoiler, you might want to check with Greg. I don't run a spoiler so am not concerned with that one.
Rotors are open, so it doesn't matter if you use vented, non vented, slotted, drilled or even two piece. I think you meant to say single piston on the front? The rears all have single piston and do fine. It's the fronts you need the 4 pots on and for 2 points is worth it to me.
03-04-08, 02:29 PM
#20
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
I'm not sure about using any other NA spoiler, you might want to check with Greg. I don't run a spoiler so am not concerned with that one.
Rotors are open, so it doesn't matter if you use vented, non vented, slotted, drilled or even two piece. I think you meant to say single piston on the front? The rears all have single piston and do fine. It's the fronts you need the 4 pots on and for 2 points is worth it to me.
Rotors are open, so it doesn't matter if you use vented, non vented, slotted, drilled or even two piece. I think you meant to say single piston on the front? The rears all have single piston and do fine. It's the fronts you need the 4 pots on and for 2 points is worth it to me.
03-04-08, 03:06 PM
#21
I'm not sure about using any other NA spoiler, you might want to check with Greg. I don't run a spoiler so am not concerned with that one.
Rotors are open, so it doesn't matter if you use vented, non vented, slotted, drilled or even two piece. I think you meant to say single piston on the front? The rears all have single piston and do fine. It's the fronts you need the 4 pots on and for 2 points is worth it to me.
Rotors are open, so it doesn't matter if you use vented, non vented, slotted, drilled or even two piece. I think you meant to say single piston on the front? The rears all have single piston and do fine. It's the fronts you need the 4 pots on and for 2 points is worth it to me.
Yup, I meant to say single piston fronts with a high-temp pad......with a very light car, are the 4 pistons really a must? I've seen others track single piston cars before, but I never looked at their results.
03-04-08, 06:00 PM
#22
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
yeah, who was the with the bright yellow S4 ITS car a couple years back?... he was running single piston front and rear with no issues.
03-04-08, 06:15 PM
#23
Mark, didn't you used to drive around a track with a race-prepped FC? Did you ever do IT racing? If not, apologies, but for some reason I get that feeling, maybe it was from all of the DTSS discussions.
RE: Sport Spoilers, can't do it, I missed a sentence again.
"Updating or Backdating without a points assessment with specialty models or between two cars that have model names with different numbers or letters in them is prohibited."
This leads to some confusion, as I want to backdate the GSL-SE transmission into the FC's. To the best of my knowledge, during 84-85 there were two models offered, the GSL with the 12A and the GSL-SE with the 13B. I'm interepreting the base classification as the GSL-SE's were the 13B base models of 84-85 and thus, elgible for backdating. But that goes against the "between two cars that have model names with different numbers or letters in them is prohibited." But, if that was the case, then we wouldn't be able to backdate base models from the S4 with GTU models from the S5.
That being said, I see it this way:
13B base models over the years:
84-85 GSL-SE
86-87 Base
88 SE
89-90 GTU
91 Coupe
Thus, I stand by my interpretation that we can use GSL-SE parts to the extent that the up/back rule allows. Anyone agree?
(I sent an e-mail to Greg, awaiting his response)
RE: Sport Spoilers, can't do it, I missed a sentence again.
"Updating or Backdating without a points assessment with specialty models or between two cars that have model names with different numbers or letters in them is prohibited."
This leads to some confusion, as I want to backdate the GSL-SE transmission into the FC's. To the best of my knowledge, during 84-85 there were two models offered, the GSL with the 12A and the GSL-SE with the 13B. I'm interepreting the base classification as the GSL-SE's were the 13B base models of 84-85 and thus, elgible for backdating. But that goes against the "between two cars that have model names with different numbers or letters in them is prohibited." But, if that was the case, then we wouldn't be able to backdate base models from the S4 with GTU models from the S5.
That being said, I see it this way:
13B base models over the years:
84-85 GSL-SE
86-87 Base
88 SE
89-90 GTU
91 Coupe
Thus, I stand by my interpretation that we can use GSL-SE parts to the extent that the up/back rule allows. Anyone agree?
(I sent an e-mail to Greg, awaiting his response)
03-04-08, 06:41 PM
#24
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Complete RX-7 listings....
Mazda RX-7 12A PTG** 2345
Mazda RX-7 13B PTE 2800
Mazda RX-7 13B GSL-SE (1st Gen) PTF** 2512
Mazda RX-7 TT PTC** 2826
Mazda RX-7 Turbo II PTD 2775
The ** are on purpose. One (1) * is +7pts initial assessment, two (2) ** are +14 pts initial assessment. I was helping some 1st Gens the other day class theirs and they forget the ** +14.
What you can update/backdate is S4/S5 parts so long as they are on the base model without points hit. This might include the base model spoiler 89-91 as concluded above, S5 bumpers on the S4, S5 intake on an S4 motor, S5 rotors in an S4 motor, etc. I don't think there are any S4 parts someone would want to put on an S5, but there are some S5 parts which are perfectly legal as no point hits to put on an S4.
Here's a point hit many might miss, the .756 5th gear from the GTUs. That's a 3 point hit for altered tranny gears as that ratio is not on the base model.
