imloggedin

if whoever cant understand the other diagram i made.. heres a fast other way of explaining it.. heh

imloggedin

if you think its wire thats the problem.. cut into the blue wires and run a 12gauge to the back and splice into blue at the pump and connect.. very simple.

NZConvertible

Much simpler and not nearly as effective. All you're doing is bypassing the section of stock wiring from the fuse box to the resistor/relay. The rest is untouched, so this simply won't work as well. Argue that as much as you want, but it's the truth.
I understand it, I just had to figure out your drawing...

Wrong. All wires have resistance, and the total voltage drop through the wire is a function of length and gauge. Anyone who's actually measured it will tell you that the voltage at the pump is always well below battery voltage. It's a fact. With the rewire, you're powering the pump with a wire half the length of the original power supply and several times larger in cross-sectional area.

Here's all the proof I need. Before I did the rewire, voltage at the fuel pump was ~8.5V (low) and ~12.5V (high). Now it's ~9.5V (low) and ~13.8V (high). That's a significant improvement from just changing the wires...

HAILERS

***Here's all the proof I need. Before I did the rewire, voltage at the fuel pump
was ~8.5V (low) and ~12.5V (high). Now it's ~9.5V (low) and ~13.8V (high).
That's a significant improvement from just changing the wires...****

How about a real test??? Drive at night with the air conditioner on, radio on, hopefully the lights on, and check the(HIGH) when your boosting at your best boost!

imloggedin

wtf is ineffective.. you run ONE WIRE FOR POWER and its the same friggin thing as the other rewire except your not relocating jack crap.. how can you deny that.. you cant.. this is idiotic.. i dont know how many times i said "if you think its the wire run a new one from the blue" bLHA BLAH BLAH.. why dont you listen.

imloggedin

**Here's all the proof I need. Before I did the rewire, voltage at the fuel pump was ~8.5V (low) and ~12.5V (high). Now it's ~9.5V (low) and ~13.8V (high). That's a significant improvement from just changing the wires...**

PLUS your rewire probably included the new wire ran from the battery... hmm wonder if that had anything to do with it.. your trying to prove its the WIRE itself when whos to say its not the source you are getting voltage from with the new "rewire" installed.

Rpeck

Well, I have some more proof for ya. I just did the rewire yesterday (previuos page I posted pics) and I put everything back together and went for a test run today, guess what I had to dial down my fuel ~3-5% across the board, I was running noticeably richer.



-Robert

imloggedin

proof of what? wich rewire did you do.. they are both the same but the one i made is just simpler

imloggedin

bottom line.. i dont care what you think NZ or anyone else for that matter.. the diagram i made (to TRY and help people) is MUCH simpler.. it does EXACTLY the same thing as the old one without relocating the resistor/relay or running speaker wire (run power wire if you please). if you dont see that, open your friggin eyes and figure out what you are doing before you try and speak about something you dont know about. this thread can be closed for all i care and ill post my diagram elsewhere.. where people dont try and "prove it wrong" with idiotic statements. please people, have some dang sense.

NZConvertible

Actually I did! Well it was daytime, but I turned everything electrical on. I can't remember the exact voltage but I think I lost about half a volt. It was definitely less than one volt.

You need to clarify something for me, because neither of your drawings make it clear. Are you running a new, large gauge wire from the battery all the way back to the fuel pump? You second drawing implies you are not. It shows all wiring being done at the resistor in the engine bay, with no new wire running to the pump. If this is the case, you are still using most of the stock wiring to get power to the pump. I'm pretty sure I've already explained that. Yes it will work, but it won't reduce the voltage drop as much as the full rewire, and reducing voltage drop is the whole point of this exercise.
OMG, you're mising the whole point here aren't you. Of course that wire is the reason for the improvement. The whole reason we're doing this is so we can run a feed directly from the battery. That's the whole point!
That would be your loss, not ours.
Correct.
Incorrect.
Don't know about? I probably know the FC's fuel pump control wiring and the fuel pump rewire better than 99% of the people here, mainly because of the research I did to produce my schematic and do it on my own car. Worked perfectly first time too...

The original rewire was designed (I believe) by Dale Clark, who has far more experience with these cars than you or me. All I did was draw the schematic based on his design. It's been around unchanged for a long time and has been successfully performed by many, many people, including those with enough electrical knowledge to see potential improvements or simplifications if there are any.

If you think your design is so great, then do it and post the results. Make sure you provide results for the stock wiring, the original rewire and your design. Don't throw your toys out of the sandpit just because someone challenges your ideas.

imloggedin

no someone challenges my ideas when they dont understand what im saying (you). do you still not get what ive been saying about the BLUE wire the whole time ive been posting. i GET what the original rewire does.. apparently i get it better than you do. its a matter of opinion weather its drop in voltage on the wire because of WHERE you are getting it.. IE you change to the battery instead of the circuit opening relay. OR you think its the WIRE itself. either way i gave options for both.. my schematic shows you adding a relay in the front of the car and leaving as is. and i will say it again, the BLUE WIRE runs back to your fuel pump.. CUT IT up front, run the 12 gauge wire to the back.. and resplice it in.. SAME THING as doing the original rewire except no remounting, no speaker cable, no blah blah.. i dont know how i could make it anymore clearer. i dont mean to be stupid about it, but im trying to help and ive explained it many many times and you still arent getting it. very annoying.

Rpeck

Relax. Your stressing out ... if this little discussion "Annoys" you that much ... quit posting about it.

NZConvertible

Let's not forget who's schematic you used in the first place. If I don't get it, how come my rewire worked perfectly, and nobody who's followed my schematic has complained about it?
It's not a matter or opinion, it's a case of engineering fact. Where do you think the circuit opening relay gets power from? The battery! Via the ignition switch and fuse box. This mod is all about the wiring. Reducing the voltage drop through the wiring is the only reason we do it. What else is there?
Wait, lets look at your drawing again.



Do we see any wiring running back to the pump? Ah, no...

It is possible to do this and leave the relay/resistor in place, but it means your new power wire is much longer. You have to run from the battery across to the other side of the car to the relay/resistor and then back to the other side again where the pump plug is. The whole point of doing this is to shorten the power wire. The most direct route is straight from the battery to the pump.
Let's not forget you came up with this "simplification" because you stuffed your original rewire, and then decided this must've been because it was too complicated. The original rewire is the most effective way to do it, whether you like it or not.

imloggedin

**Let's not forget who's schematic you used in the first place. If I don't get it, how come my rewire worked perfectly, and nobody who's followed my schematic has complained about it? **

-yah i used YOUR schematic wich had the wrong numbers on the relay and was probably taken from the drawn one at 1300cc.com.. if you knew the rewire that well, you woulda understood from step 1 what i was doing. lol LAME.

imloggedin

**Do we see any wiring running back to the pump? Ah, no... It is possible to do this and leave the relay/resistor in place, but it means your new power wire is much longer. You have to run from the battery across to the other side of the car to the relay/resistor and then back to the other side again where the pump plug is. The whole point of doing this is to shorten the power wire. The most direct route is straight from the battery to the pump.**

-Do we see me saying "if you wanna run new wire tap into the blue wire" 50 billion times, ahhh YES.. open your eyes. i dont think its gonna lose voltage because of 4 feet of wire added to it lmao, ITS SOO MUCH LONGER. i would much rather do that than run 20 feet MORE wire, with the power wire (the speaker wire) and relocate everything. let not forget THAT extension.

imloggedin

**Let's not forget you came up with this "simplification" because you stuffed your original rewire, and then decided this must've been because it was too complicated. The original rewire is the most effective way to do it, whether you like it or not.**

my original rewire was great.. it even worked after i figured out your numbers were jacked, compared to my relay. the original is WAY more complicated than it should be, and WAY more work than it should be.. ill post a friggin picture when i get home of my "original rewire" it was fine.


if you cant see that this way is much easier and exactly the same friggin modification with much less effort, go away and post your bs elsewhere.

NZConvertible

The numbers aren't wrong, you just stuffed it up. http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/relays/115.html

The rewire on Scott's website (1300cc.com) is Dale Clark's. The reason I did my own schematic was because Dale's original write-up didn't have one and Scott's drawing isn't very clear. I did it for me to use. Several people posted that they had trouble understanding the written instructions, so I posted my schematic to help them. So far you're the only person to complain about it.
Do either of your drawings show it? No. Since it's the main reason for doing this mod, perhaps you should've shown it. Otherwise what you posted was useless. The power wire to the pump isn't an "option" as you imply, its the whole resaon for doing this.
4 feet? Is your car 2 feet wide? Your extra wire has to run from one corner of the engine bay to the other and then has to get back to the other side of the car again before it reaches the fuel pump. That's another 10 feet once you've run the wires properly, which is about half as much again as you'd normally need. Is that going to make a huge difference? Probably not, but it will make a difference. I wasn't in the least bit concerned about a little extra work to keep the power wire as short as possible.

I pulled the power and speaker wires at the same time, so it was no more difficult than pulling one wire. Relocating the relay/resistor to the back doesn't add any extra wire. Well it didn't on my install, I can't speak for yours.
My numbers aren't "jacked". Either you bought a cheap, dodgy relay not numbered to international standards, or you just simply got it wrong. Let's be perfectly clear on that.
You sound like a lazy, whinging teenager. If this mod was so hard for you, why did you even do it? Perhaps you should've done some research and figured out another way before you started, instead of blindly copying someone else's hard work and then have the cheek to bitch and moan about how hard it was for you.

imloggedin

**I did it for me to use. Several people posted that they had trouble understanding the written instructions, so I posted my schematic to help them. So far you're the only person to complain about it.**

at first i was informing people that they may have the wrong numbers, so check.. then you got holier than thou and i started to say more about it.
-----------------------------------------------
**Do either of your drawings show it? No. Since it's the main reason for doing this mod, perhaps you should've shown it. Otherwise what you posted was useless. The power wire to the pump isn't an "option" as you imply, its the whole resaon for doing this.**


from step 1 you said "that is pointless".. not even reading wtf i said. thats a ******* move, when the whole time ive been saying if you wanna run the wire after the resistor/relay SPLICE INTO THE BLUE. and yes it is an option CAUSE I MADE THE DIAGRAM, I CAN MAKE IT AN OPTION. my schematic wasnt exact.. if you want it to be exact i could make it exact, it was just an example to post.. not my infamous friggin work, u wanna go head to head in photoshop.. lets go. hah lame excuses "but your drawing doesnt show it". MY WORDS DO THOUGH IDIOT.
------------------------------------------------
**4 feet? Is your car 2 feet wide?**

heres a little english lesson for you..
exaggeration:
1: To represent as greater than is actually the case;

un·der·state·ment:
1. A disclosure or statement that is less than complete.
Restraint or lack of emphasis in expression, as for rhetorical effect.

now mix them together! yay
------------------------------------------------
**My numbers aren't "jacked". Either you bought a cheap, dodgy relay not numbered to international standards, or you just simply got it wrong. Let's be perfectly clear on that. **

ohh my whats this..
cat #275-226

.. and on the back, DIFFERENT NUMBERS than whats on your diagram *GASP* it couldnt!.. it is! Radioshack is so dodgy when it comes to electronics.

NZConvertible

Most of that ranting and flaming isn't worth bothering with, but I'll respond to this...
The numbers on my drawing are as per the ISO (International Standards Organisation) system. I've bought probably a hundred of these things over the years under countless brandnames, and they were all numbered exactly the same. If your relay's numbers were different, then I'll stand by my statement that "you bought a cheap, dodgy relay not numbered to international standards ". The reason for those standards is so people don't make the mistake you did.

I still find it hard to believe your relay had the same four numbers (30, 85, 86, 87), just arranged differently. That just sounds fishy. How about a photo of the back of that card.

imloggedin

as you can see my digital camera cant take good close up pictures.. its all blurry and you cant read text that close no matter what settings its on heh. heres the numbers. 86-on/off, 87-12v in, 85-ground, 30 12v out. this is flipped of your schematic. after examining that, my thought was that it may still work even though its flipped (i dont know if the circuitry is directional or whatever) but apparently it didnt, because when i had it hooked up the way in your schematic, it was a constant 12v.. i flipped it and had 9v.

NZConvertible

But the result would be exactly the same. 85 and 86 are the coil's terminals. No matter which way around you wire these two, the result will be the same. 12V across those terminals closes the switch. 30 and 87 are the switch's terminals. Again, no matter which way around you wire these two, the result will be the same, as it is just a switch. I could spin the relay on my schematic 180deg and it would work exactly the same.

If you look at my schematic, you'll see the way the pins are drawn will match the bottom of your relay (incuding the numbers). They're arranged like that so you can always tell which pins are for what even without the numbers. I guarantee the picture of the relay on my schematic will match your relay. I did this to minimise the chance of mistakes!
The only way that could happen is if you mixed up one of the switch wires with one of the coil wires. This is not a mistake on my drawing and it turns out it wasn't the relay either. You made a simple mistake. I've done it myself on numerous occassions. Just admit it so we can all move on...

imloggedin

i already did admit i made a mistake.. but it was exactly reversed (i guaranteee) and then i was getting a constant 12v to the pump.. explain that.

thats funny though, i already admited i had it on wrong, and you still havent admitted that my schematic is at the least "good".. and worthy of some respect.. alls youve did is crap on it. thats why this whole time we've been argueing.

i try to help, and then you crap on it.. without understanding it at first. the only thing you can say against it now is "your adding X more feet of 12 gauge power wire". can you honestly say that is gonna drop voltage? that little of feet? - so, the ease of my way is another option for people, instead of crapping on it.. why dont you just leave it alone.

88ROTARY

man? clean that up!

Rpeck

LOL! Crack addict, that was a picture in progress, I didn't leave it like that

no respect, no respect

I doesn't do any good to take a picture of it all put back together you can't see anything

-Robert

NZConvertible

And blamed my schematic for it. "Jacked" numbers I believe...
That's because it's not. You've only drawn half of the work required.