So, I finally sold my Firebird and got a 87 N/A. Among the list of planned mods from the money left over are the following: RB cat rep pipe/pre-silencer, Apexi N1, Apexi intake. Since I dont have enough leftover money to do a TII swap im going to keep it N/A awhile and not dump too much money into power mods (im a suspension oriented guy anyway), but I know that FDs are notorious for blowing seals with full exhausts and intakes and high RPM abuse.

Since its N/A and its the older 13B, should i get my ECU remapped or go with a piggyback like the SAFC-II and do it myself to a: maximize mod potential and b: prevent detonation, or should those mods be ok to leave the ECU stock.

I appreciate your help and knowledge!

 

have u considered carbing it?

otherwise 2nd gens dont have as much of a problem because they are able to compensate with more more fuel if there is increased airflow. it would not be as bad, if at all, as it would with a 3rd gen. BUT i really cant say for sure if the stock ecu would do. it might. with that settup i personally would run a carb. if ya havnt looked into it, might want to check it out. but, it can be done both ways.

 

yeah, i have considered carbing it, and while the potential is high, and the coolness factor is way up there, for that kind of cash id just go ahead and do the turbo swap, thats why i planned on doing as few parts that i couldnt reuse with the TII (so far, the cat elim. is all, and if 1 or 2 parts is all i cant use i can ebay em and make some of the cash back, so im not too worried because im only aiming for 260ish hp with the turbo motor anyway).

Im just not too keen on exactly how well the FCs ECU compensates for fuel and air delivery, not to mention spark advance.

Saving my motor is a top priority, not power. It -is- still a street car (good thing I live in Alabama, where there are no emission laws :-D)

 

well if its just intake and losing the cats the stock ecu should be just fine.

no emissions? let me just say i hate you.

i would wait to hear what other people have to say as well.

 

Yeah, the no emissions thing is cool except for 2 things:

Every mustang and truck (which is at least every other vehicle on the damn road) has gutted cats and flowmaster mufflers and while the trucks generally sound cool (long pipes) every mustang in Alabama sounds exactly the same and gets incredibly annoying. You can pinpoint a mustang w/ flows a mile away easily and if your ears are good you can tell if its a 5.0 or a 4.6. Its a fun little game I play

Secondly, almost all the Honda tuners (which is a ton....damn rice) has caught on and runs straight pipes to some cheap ebay or APC mufflers and almost all sound like utter crap. You can hear every piston firing and it just sounds like a very big, loud weedwhacker. God, thats even more annoying....

So be thankful for those that have emission laws, they dont have to put up with listening to that crap everytime youre on the road...

 

Probably some of the best bang-for-buck mods (intake & exhaust in general, though I do like my RB Presilencer & such). The stock exhaust, especially, is very restrictive.

Yes. The critical difference is that the FD does NOT have a mass airflow sensor. Intake/exhuast mods allow higher airflow with the same manifold pressure, the ECU doesn't know about this, runs lean, and pops seals.

If anything, go with the SAFC-II. The remapped ECUs are mostly for the turbo models.

The 2nd gens have a mass airflow sensor, which means that, within reason, more airflow through the engine gets detected properly, the ECU fires more fuel in, and everything is happy. So you can actually do quite a bit of modding without worrying about going lean. Also, NAs don't really have destructive detonation. While it might be possible to get a NA to detonate (it's very hard, regardless), it's not going to pack enough punch to do much damage. I'm not saying it's impossible to detonate a NA hard and long enough to blow an apex seal, but you'd have to be trying to do it.

If you don't want to go with a standalone, I'd say go with the SAFC-II, and a wideband O2 sensor for tuning (or dyno time, whichever). You don't need to worry about adding fuel - you need to worry about how much to subtract. I've heard rumors of the stock ECU pushing a NA into the 9:1 A/F ratio range... not needed, not efficient, and less powerful than it should be. You'll probably have to pull out a significant amount of fuel up high. People have found 15HP just from leaning it out at the top end - that's how bad it is, stock.

Other things I'd strongly suggest:

Pull the fuel injectors, and get them cleaned & blueprinted. You'll send them in somewhere like RC Engineering, or Cruzin Performance. They use lots of fancy ultrasonic baths & solvents & other jazz to clean the injectors to like-new performance. A leaking injector or two will cause starting problems, and won't atomize the fuel as well, so it will affect fuel economy and power as well.

Change the pulsation damper, or at least be aware of what it is and how it can make your day really suck. Either put a new one on, or put a banjo bolt in (I'll stay out of the debate, search if you're interested). It's a damper on the end of the primary fuel rail that has a tendency of leaking. The high pressure fuel leak will run down the side of the engine onto the exhaust manifold, and cause a Car-B-Que. I also suggest carrying a fire extinguisher in the car. If you smell raw gas, FIND THE CAUSE. There have been a number of "Uh... I smelled gas a few days ago, ignored it, and here are pictures of the burned remains of my car" posts. Not to scare you or anything, but high pressure fuel leaks are Bad, m'kay?

Become familiar with your auxiliary intake ports (5th & 6th ports). If they're not working properly, you lose (stock) 15+ HP at the top end, and with your mods, probably 20-30HP up high. Make sure they're moving freely & actuating properly.

*thinks*

Do yourself a favor and spend the $150 or so on new coolant hoses around. The one going from the firewall to the side of the engine has a way of leaking, as do the ones under the throttle body. Replace them, because overheating a rotary engine can often kill it.

I'm done.

-=Russ=-

 

well everyones getting kinda offtopic here,

with anything exhaust or intake wise u can bolt onto the NA, theres no worry of detonation..... the ecu knows whats going on... air flow meter sees the extra air and adds more fuel accordingly.

theres prolly 50,000 NA FC with just exhaust and intake on here with no problems

the reason the FD is notorious for that is because it usea map sensor instead of a air flow meter type. to know whats going on....


dang that guy beat me to it!!

yeah using a SAFC to lean it out would make more power, as it is very rich stock.

 

Yeah, i read about how overly rich the stock N/A runs, but was worried just HOW much it would affect it. I appreciate all your responces and yes, ive thought alot about the bang for the buck stuff (which is why I picked those mods and not get all crazy with trying to squeeze 56890746hp out of the NA). The plugs and wires are already in the mail, but I do need to check the ports (although it seems to be working fine, the mf*er screams at high RPMs), and ill check those hoses. The coolant seems to be doing fine, but when I go turbo I had planned on getting a new koyo rad and some samco hoses to make double sure.

Again, mucho gracias.

 

If you want to know how much the richness affects the cars, search for flames and you'll find lots of threads of people talking about how their cars backfire at high RPM and high loads when you lift off the throttle suddenly (like when upshifting). I've been told that my car has made some 4-5ft flames out of each pipe.

 

Now flames are a cool thing and id like to put on a little fireworks show for my buds, if I lean it out at higher RPMs you think id still be able to do that?

Note: I am a moron, and I shoulda thought before I typed that, im sure I can save the stock A/F settings on the SAFC...

 

Get an S-AFC. Problem solved. There aren't any remapped ECUs available anyway (at least not easily available).

Either stick with the stock ECU and add a piggy back (S-AFC, etc.) or go with a standalone. The piggyback will allow fuel control and since all you need to do is minor tweaking it will be fine. The standalone allows full control, but comes at a much heftier price and will involve many more hours tuning.

 

And just for the record, carbs suck. I mean, they do have their purpose, but not on a 2nd gen 7.. you will make more power with a proper fuel controller and a O2 sensor than you ever will with carbs (all fuel pressure, flow rate numbers, and other modifications the same of course).

 

Plus you eliminate the dynamic chamber with a carb, so those "supercharge air pulses" between rotor housings that aid in feeding more air into the engine are eliminated. So you start off with less power.