micah

Well, I have a 1991 White NA. The paint is terrible. flaking off is an understatement.. there's almost more grey than there is white now.

I need some advice/opinions... First, how much am I looking to spend on a decent paint job? I'm looking at going gloss black, or back to the white crystal.. Perhaps with a stripe. Nothing too fancy. I was thinking somewhere in the range of 1000-1200 for a decent job... including prep, paint and re-assembly. I could probably do a lot of the prep work myself if it wasn't winter right now.. I do still need to drive the thing.

My second part of this is.... Its a pain in the butt finding pictures of FC's with stripes painted on them... I'd like to see what it looks like. Anybody got any? There aren't many in the FC3S picture post.

Any info is appreciated.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

well, cost depends on how much bodywork needs done and what grade of paint and materials you are going to use or have used. if the car is white now, keep it white or the cost is going to raise signifigantly. and besides, who wants a car with a black exterior and white under the hood? for a good paint job, white paint, materials(reducer, primer, finishing glaz, etc), and bodywork, you could run yourself $1500 eaisally. my dad owns a body shop here in ohio and the price depends on the size of the car, paint and materials, bodywork, and specialty items such as graphics, air brushing, wheel painting, things like that. so when you are talking about adding a stripe, that might run another $100. it just depends on who you take it to.

micah

So.. those details are as follows:

Body work - almost none. .body is near-perfect. a couple dings here and there that I could prep myself with fibrall. (Bondo is really a terrible product)
I'll be doing the engine bay next month when I do my engine swap. Black... No matter what color I get the car... although I'm planning on black.
No art work, maybe a euro stripe type thing if I get ambitious.

I could probably take most of the paint off myself with a pressure washer.... taking it down to the primer... or atleast close to it.

What should I know going into a shop about paint grades, materials, etc... I don't want to get used. I have NEVER gotten any of my vehicles painted before. Any advice is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks.

--Micah

blackB

3g's

I striped the car as much as posible and towed it to the body shop. My vbGarage has some 'mini' pics.

No much body work needed to get done. Just to replace the splash plate for one of the rear wheel wells and added s5 ground effects.

It should be done in the next two weeks... black it was and black it will be.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I think you mean - To a person who's never done body work, there's almost none.

There's more than likely bodywork to be done on every panel, just very minimal thats all. More than likely as well the entire car will be primed given the fact that the paint's flaking off the factory E-coat.

First off.......WTF is fibrall? Fiberglass filler? And what makes you think "bondo" is a terrible product? Would it break your heart if I told you every single Chip Foose car (or any car with a perfect body) has a layer of putty from stem to stern?

Never heard of a Euro stripe, no idea what it would cost. Unless you mean a pinstripe after the painting is done, of which rolls can be had for 30ish dollars.

Do it yourself, it'll save the shop the aggrivation.

Urethane. Thats all you need to know. If you want a solid colour (black) just tell them you want straight single stage urethane. Its the same material as bc/cc but it simply has colour in it. The gloss retention, holdout, polishability of it are all the same charateristics as bc/cc.

If you want to spring for base clear, thats fine, its your money.

Lastly, if you want to save money and get a good job, take the thing apart yourself and have it towed to the shop. Pull out all the lights, trim, door panels, glass, etc as far as your little heart desires and leave the paint work to the guys with the paint guns. Yes they've got screwdrivers too but so do you - see where Im going

Before you take it anywhere, fins former customers of the shop. More importantly find someone who had something go wrong there and ask them how they (the shop) handled it. I know that is my saving grace with alot of people. We're all human and make mistakes, the big indicator of who a person is is how they rectify a problem.

Expect to pay at LEAST $1500 for a respectable body job. And even at that, I'd be a very carefully monitoring what goes onto your car. A good job will run from $2500 on up to the sky.

Good luck.

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

i'm painting my car myself its going to be fun ^_^ going with stock 5A Sapphire blue with a pearl tint.

Classic auto: any tips for the best pearl accent? and how cheap can i get it?

any tips on mixing, i've never really worked with urethanes (although i used clear poly on a guitar o built) most familiar with laquers, and what not (i used to do finishing in a custom cabinet shop, i got quite good with a gun)

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Sapphire Blue Metallic is the 5A stock color.

I am interested in how the stock color comes out in a repaint. I want to repaint my car and can't decide if I want to go with the 5A or a new blue, such as the 350Z Blue (Daytona Blue?).

Soooo... I demand pics!

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Those two don't go together: pearl and cheap

Best thing would be to use a factory pearl tinting base. I haven't looked at the formula for 5A, but chances are it actually has pearl in it from the get-go. In either case (whether it has some or not) if you want to add more, simply tell the place you're buying it from to put more in. It will affect the cost, but not too dramatically. But *most* jobbers mix the paint on site (as do most bodyshops) so its not a big deal to add more........but read on.

The only OTHER thing is that the guy mixing it will tell you he's going to have no idea what it will look like................and he's right.

Unless you go to the work of having a bodyshop mix you tiny amounts of paint with X amount of pearl added, and Y amount added and spray cards with each, then you have NO real idea what your paint will look like when the guy tosses 50 extra ounces into a gallon mix.


No real tips on mixing other than do it thoroughly and to the correct ratio Urethane is really a very simple product to use, whether its single stage or base clear. And in fact, base clear could be sprayed by a monkey with down-syndrome its so simple. The biggest thing is to follow directions to a T and to avoid contamination at all costs, be it in the air you're spraying with, or on the car itself. Even a sweaty hand used to shove a car into a paint booth can create a problem down the road.....

Good luck

iceblue

Body filler is an awesome product these days. Fiber glass filler is actually the incorrect way to do it these days and modern filler is more appropriate.

Good paint job 3 to 4 k awesome paint job 4 to 7k.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

lol uh, take it to maaco. Get their most expensive paintjob (~$800+ dings/dents) with a 3 year warranty. Any runs/ overspray or major defects and they'll repaint it for you. They'll also only take your car for only like 4 days. If you're getting the same color and will be daily driving the car, theres no reason to pay out the *** for a paintjob, its also retarded to dump twice the bluebook value in a damn paintjob unless it'll be some show car. just my .02. I'll post pics of mine next week.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

^ I'll second that....if and only if:

You follow classicauto's advice and do the majority of the prep work yourself.

I've seen plenty of Maaco paint jobs that look bad, but that was mostly due to over spray on things like tires, exhaust, radiators, trim pieces etc. Maaco is quite literally a "paint shop" so if you expect them to do much in the way of prep work, you'll get what you pay for. But if you spring for some higher quality paint, and spend some time on disassembly, you might be pleasantly surprised.

micah

You know... the first rule of thumb I have read in any painting thread is "don't take it the Maaco"... so I'm hesitant to take that advice.

Also, I WILL have around 1500 to spend on a paint job. Hopefully.

Fibral is the bomb... Seriosly. I've done SOME body work for friends... Bondo kicks butt as long as you have a perfectly humidity/temp controlled environment and you paint it as soon as it cures. If you let it stand in humid air, it starts absorbing it.... I started using fibral on cars because it was cheaper... bad reason I know.. but a great way to discover it. It was actually designed as a marine body fixer/filler, it sticks to EVERYTHING and is waterproof upon curing. Much more resistant to moisture/cold/hot when it is curing, and is completely sandable once cured. Its pretty cool stuff.

Bondo is great... if you live in a dry state.... I did get me a heater for the garage.. now all I need is a dehumidifier.

and I do understand that there is a lot more body work than most people will understand... but I have watched every single overhaulin episode. so.. chip foose is no stranger to me. I do understand that they thick primer/sand almost every inch of the vehicle... but.. "almost none" to me, means that they aren't replacing steel, or banging out large sections of damage, or throwing my unibody on the frame rack to twist my vehicle back to OEM spec.

So.. I have a good idea of the work involved. I helped my dad paint my brothers truck not too long ago.. and I remember REALLY hating sanding.

I do apologize for being naive with body work/painting... but.. thats how we learn. right? Also.. didn't mean to **** you off with the whole bondo thing. hehe.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

So for something like 5A, would you still suggest urethane? Also, since bc/cc is more expensive, is there any upside to using bc/cc?

micah

Also, what does "Single Stage" mean? Single coat? Because single coat seems a bit Maaco-Esque.

I want my car to look awesome.. and I'm willing to pay for it to look awesome. I just don't want to exceed 2k. So I want the best possible finish/durability for around the 1500 mark.

I'm going to start looking around today hopefully.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Well, urethane would work, but you've got to understand the reasoning behind using single stage urethane.....I suggest it for solid colours because they can be buffed/wetsanded, but thats only because in a solid colour the pigment is consistent all the way through the paint. Metallic single stage urethane, although the material itself can be buffed and wetsanded, when you do so, you will be distorting the metallic and blurring the colour in doing so.

Base clear has the advantage of having a layer over-top of the colour where all the pigments, perals and metallics are....so when you wetsand and buff the clear coat, you don't affect the colour at all. The upside is simply that. The actual composition of the material as far as gloss retention, holdout, polishability, durability are all the same for both.

DO NOT confuse single stage urethane with single stage enamel, or acrylic enamel, or acrylic urethane. The key to the single stage STRAIGHT urethane being as good as it is, is simply the fact that its straight urethane.......no other cheap bullshit mixed in.

EDIT: Search the canadian section under my name and "members FD" and you will see just what single stage urethane is capable of.

Also any avid viewers of American Hot Rod can see it in action on the Hi-boy roadster in black, and on the "junkyard dog" project.


Refer to above last paragraph. Macco uses Acrylic enamel. EDIT: unless you ask, and pay, for something else.



Im sorry to break your heart, but if you want your car to look decent.......then you can afford it right now. If you want you car to look awesome, keep saving.

You'll get a decent paint job for that kind of money......

Next time buy quality material and you won't have problems with curing. Sure, on a rainy day my putty might take 2 extra minutes to get rock hard, but a fiberglass filler would as well.

There should be no drastic affect on the dry time of bondo or of putty due to humidity because they are both cured by chemical reaction.......

micah

Heh. You aren't breaking my heart. Decent is better than what I have now... and sounds like it will last if the prep work is done right.. Thats really all I'm looking for... black is black.. so.. the prep work is the most important part to me.... I just don't want my paint orange peeling, chipping, flaking or having chunks of bondo falling off if I hit a speed bump.

Do you have any tips for prep work? I have a few dings that you can barely feel when you run your hand over it, how should I go about filling these and sanding them down?

Also, is there a best-way to do the rest of the car? what grits should I use to sand down the existing primer? (I probably won't go to the steel, I don't see the need).

I am asking, because you really sound like you know your ****... So far, your advice has been great.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

For the exterior where the paint is decent and you just want to scuff it for recoating, use P400. Basically the entire body save for the areas you want to repair.........after washing and de-greasing of course.

Where you have small, minor dents....you'll be able to simply sand the paint inside and around the dent with a P120, then putty the dent and block it down with 120 or 180. All of the area that has the rough grit scratches will need primer.

The rest of your part will simply be stripping it down and removing anything you want to...the more the better

micah

Thats exactly what the guy told me on the phone just now. I got a ballpark quote from a reputable shop in my area. He said, depending on how much prep I do, anywhere from 1000-1500 for a single stage urethane black on a Mazda RX-7. He kept asking me questions like "Do you have a power sander?" I said "Yeah, but I'll be sanding it by hand.. I'll only screw it up if I use a power sander". he said "Good answer". So... I guess I'm on the right track. hehe. I need to borrow a pressure washer next so I can start removing the rest of the stupid mazda white crystal.

EDIT: I'd love to just scuff it in areas where the paint is okay.... but won't that leave a lip between where the paint is gone?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Well, yes and no.

If you manage to "feather" the old paint back, then it won't. But chances are since the paint is flaking that when you sand the dge it won't feather, it will simply continue to peel back.

If I were you, I'd pressure wash the crap out of it before you do anything else. Any paint that doesn't get blow off with 1000psi will surely feather back just fine.

Note - feathering is simply a term for blending the higher edge of the existing paint down to the level where the factory e-coat is. If after feathering you can't catch a fingernail on the edge of the paint, it will be sufficient to primer over.

micah

But, over time won't the old paint underneath come loose and take the new primer/paint out with it?

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

So for the 5A, you would suggest bc/cc, correct?

And by straight color, you mean non-metallic and non-pearl stuff?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Thats where you reach the "how far do you want to go" question.

Will the old paint (that couldn't be blown off with the 1000psi of water from the pressure washer) lift off over time and take the new paint with it? No...........but maybe yes somewhere far down the line.

Will the old e-coating flake off somehwere down the line and take the new paint with it? No............but maybe yes somewhere far down the line.

Will the old e-coating have any minute corrosion present underneath it when I paint it? Probably considering we're dealing with a body that hasn't been touched in two decades.



Do you want to spend the money/time/effort it takes to ensure your car lasts 20 more years? Or do you want something that looks decent and affordable but *may* show signs of body work 5 years down the road?

You tell me.

EDIT:


Yes I would suggest base clear for any pearl or metallic colour.

And yes by straight colour I mean non-metallic, non-pearl.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Sure, but keep in mind maaco WILL repaint the car for you if they made any runs/overspray etc. Their body shops are all over, and they have a big name to defend. I even saw their "samples" outside, one right out of the shop and one about 5 months old. Their 3 year "gloss" warranty is also something to keep in mind.

I'm just being realistic, my car is my daily driver and I drive the **** out of it on backroads, most likely will take it to tracks, will park it near grocery stores where soccer moms will ding my doors, and will park it in places where it can be keyed/damaged. There is no way in hell I'm dumping my bluebook value in a paint job, lol.

micah

Good point Khan... Realistically, a Maaco paint job for the average person is going to be fine... And if I can't afford it financially (was quoted today in the 1000-1500 mark for a single stage urethane job including prep work from a reputable shop), I'll just end up doing all of my own prep work minus primer and take it to Maaco. Does anybody know if Maaco will offer the single stage urethane? If so, a paint shop is really all I need. But if they get overspray on **** like the windows, I'll be REAL ticked. Thats just tacky and unprofessional.

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

of course i knew its metallic silly, if i know the paint code don't ya think i can clearly see its metallic, did imention i have finishing experience? lol

when the car gets painted you will see, i think it'll be the first S5 (well its an s4 with trim change inside and out) in Sapphire Blue Met. that i've seen

come to think of it, i painted a guitar i built a while back with som kinda of single stage metallic, dunno what kinda just know that it was alkryd or something . . .