Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Where'd you get that from? Totally untrue.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Like HWO said, aircraft engines operate in a very narrow RPM band. This EFI system is likely to have much lower resolution in rpm based load points. Fprep even mentioned this in his second post, I just think the resolution is probably even lower than he has assumed.

But I hope not! Good luck.

FC3AZ

Well, judging from people's experiences with driving N/A's that are without the AFM, and seeing some 1/4mi times of an automatic N/A without the AFM.....I think its a very valid statement. Of course, N/A owners could follow you, and build a turbo'ed N/A, but not all of us have the resources for that. It was a very general statement that is for the most part a fact.

I know there is porting to be done on these cars, and nitrous possiblities, but that AFM is a huge restriction, and you gotta know that from your own personal experience.

mazdaspeed7

So youre telling me that even though Im maxing out the stock AFM, its not a restriction? Theres a few well modded S5 n/a that are maxing out their AFM's. I know I am, and so is PP13Bnos. I remember hearing someone else talk about it too, but I dont remember their name.

Evil Aviator

The best way to make your car faster is to reduce the weight... starting with the stock S4 AFM and EMS. The S5 isn't quite as bad.

mazdaspeed7

I like your reasoning Now while we're at it, lets port the housings and intake manifold to reduce weight, and replace the exhaust, and so on

HWO

When was the last time you saw an aeroplane plod along at 1500-2500rpm then give it the occasional burst to 8000rpm???????

FPrep2ndGenRX7

I don't know of any stand alone EMS that is considered a direct "bolt-in" system. This definetly is not going to be that as the wiring harness will need to be run and possibly some sensors changed out. The unit itself will need to be mounted in the car somewhere. I don't see this as being the best thing to use on a daily driven car as my primary interest is with my racecar as an alternative to a haltech, SDS, Wolf or other like system.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, I passed the FOI and FIA 3 times, and the FII twice (never failed any of them), but I always let them lapse. I may actually finish the CFI quest if my next job requires it, but I'll probably end up being the operations weenie like I usually do. That's pretty cool that your dad can fix his own airplane. My crewchiefs freak out if I'm even holding a screwdriver or red pencil, LOL.

That sounds like a pretty low rpm range for a PP. A lot of torque is required to push a prop, so I don't understand the value of a PP anyway. Geez, what's the idle rpm on that thing, and how in the heck do they even get it to idle reliably? For that matter, does it even hold a cruise rpm?

I like to live large, so sometimes I crank out an occasional burst to 2700rpm.

Um, when's the last time you saw a fuel-injected rotary airplane with an afterburner?

Yes, turbine engines have all the newest whiz-bang stuff, but most of the low-end (ie remotely affordable to tightwad RX-7 owners) aviation internal combustion engines still require the pilot to compensate for altitude, temperature, configuration, attitude, and load changes. Sorry, but I don't see too many people on this forum with the expertise or desire to add a Mixture control **** to their street car. Humor, not a slam.

BTW, I've started flying C-172's again to stay in practice, but the newfangled ones have fuel injection now and I keep reaching for the carb heat **** but it isn't there!

Motec EMS boxes will work with the stock equipment on most vehicles, K2RD sells Haltech E6K plug-in harness adapters for 86-on RX-7's, and AEM is working on a Plug & Play EMS for the 3Gen RX-7 at this very moment.
http://www.motec.com/products/control.htm
http://www.k2rd.com/Online_Catalog/Haltech/plugin.html
http://www.aempower.com/ems.htm

Two of my friends are running their NA RX-7's on the Wolf3D EMS with fantastic results. I would imagine that a Haltech, and most other good EMS units, would have a similar gain in output and control.

mazdaspeed7

My dad has his private pilot liscense for single engine, and everything for multi-engine, including ATP and CFI. Hes a flight instructor for Flight Safety International, which is the training side of Gulfstream. He's the main instructor the Gulfstream IV training program, and wrote the training program for it.

Now on the PP, it still uses a reduction drive, but the turque it makes at ~5000 rpm is nuts. I dont remember the number offhand, but I think it was something around ft lbs of torque before the reduction drive The reduction drive ratio is usually about 2.3 or so. That comes out to nearly 700 ft lbs at the prop.

BTW, if you want to see some really ingenious idea for rotaries, look to the aviation ones. Use a search engine liek google or something.

FPrep2ndGenRX7

Evil - I had forgot about the Motec and the plug-in adapter from K2RD. To me part of the advantage of a stand alone is getting rid of the older wiring harness in the car. They get awfully brittle after 15 +/- years exposure on your average 2nd gen car. Any before and after results from your friends with the Wolf systems? It would be nice to know what type of gains all that $ is going to get you.

Doesn't appear to be a lot of interest in this so I'm probably going to skip any further work on getting this stand-alone workable for an automotive application.

Thanks for all the input.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, you sound like a certain Evil person that I know:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=59774

Well, one car is a lightened NA FC, and I could never beat it with my lightly-modified 88 TII. The other car is a lightened NA 13B 1Gen which I have yet to race, although I think it's a little faster than the FC because it weighs less. I'm still waiting for them to put their cars on a dyno. Both engines have stock blocks, catback exhaust, and a K&N cone filter on a pipe intake, so I think that just about anybody here understands the baseline. The dyno will show the rest. Unfortunately, the dyno cannot properly show the increased drivability of the engines when equiped with a standalone EMS. As an example, I drove the Wolf-equiped FC around a parking lot in all 5 gears without ever placing my foot on the gas pedal. The stock ECU would fall on its face if you tried this. I guess this isn't very surprising if you compare a personal computer made in the 80's to one made today.

I think it would make a great project, but I don't see how you could compete with the Haltech and Microtech computers which sell in the $1,000 range now.

fc3s_gtr

OMG... i think i understand about .00001% of these questions..... do they teach these stuff at Lincoln Tech? lol... I would definitely be interested...as soon as I learn all these questions raised...besides price, any benefit over Haltech or AEM? for a mechanically challenged rotor head wannabe, user-friendly & reliability is the biggest issue... would I be better off with Haltech/AEM or units such as this... thnx in advance...

eddie

Evil Aviator

I'm not familiar with Lincoln Tech, so I don't know which courses they offer. All of those subjects would be covered in a mechanical engineering baccalaureate program, and some of them would be covered in an automotive tech school. I learned about the basics from my aviation degrees and flight training, and picked up the rest from experience and researching on my own. I still learn more every day.

The AEM isn't in production yet for RX-7's, so I don't know how well it would work, although it looks good on paper. Haltech products have worked well for many years. It is difficult to compare the different EMS products, as they all have different advantages and disadvantages (datalogging, DOS vs. Windows, boost control, wideband O2 support, etc.), so it really depends on what you like. Also, there are intangible differences like product support. If you don't know the difference between the various EMS units, then it is best to simply have a professional performance auto shop install whichever EMS they are comfortable with to meet your particular needs.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

OK HUGE question
How will it handle High boost? as some of us have larger than stock turbos and need compensation for boost? will it monitor this? or how about the simple fact. that will it plug right into the existing harness or will there be the need for ALOT of butchering of the Car?

FPrep2ndGenRX7

In my mind High Boost=Money. If you want serious boost I would suggest a serious but proven EMS and they usually cost. This unit will be primarily for N/A car but usable on boosted cars. One of the things I wanted to accomplish with this was a low cost EMS for all of us cheap N/A owners that want to get rid of the AFM.

As I've already mentioned earlier in this thread I don't consider this a drop-in or plug-in upgrade. You would have to run a new wiring harness and mount the unit somewhere in the car.

But, I've decided not to continue as there seems to be very little interest and the headaches involved in selling something like this just aren't worth it to me. I couldn't test the boosted version(no TII to use) and I'm not going to sell something without first trying it myself. Not to mention the Haltechs can be bought for a little over $1000.