new catalytic converter probs
Thread Starter
Livin fo the citaaay!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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From: SoCal
new catalytic converter probs
it finally happened...got pulled over the other night...
need to get a cat to "quiet down" the exhaust.
3 inch piping. need to know what cat i should pick up.
oh and i live in the most f--ed up place ever california...
i should be fine to go take it up to the station when i get it checked out...it just needs to be quiet and have a cat on there.
suggestions??!?!?
need to get a cat to "quiet down" the exhaust.
3 inch piping. need to know what cat i should pick up.
oh and i live in the most f--ed up place ever california...
i should be fine to go take it up to the station when i get it checked out...it just needs to be quiet and have a cat on there.
suggestions??!?!?
you may want to consider fabbing in a racing beat presilencer. do you have a TII? the reason i ask is because 3" piping is a bit large for an N/A and you cold actually see a reduction in power going with such large diameter piping.
Depending on how thoroughly the cops inspect it, he'll have to have a cat, or something that looks like one. But in the long run, a presilencer and RB duals work very well in reducing noise.
Unless they gave you a ticked for not having a cat, then I doubt they will check to see if you have one. I wasn't checked when I had to have mine written off on my N/A, I just swapped back on my stock dual setup without cat, then I just had to idle it for about a minute and the cop just listened to it and wrote it off. The ticket I got was for "modified exhaust."
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MECP Certified Installer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,176
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From: Mesquite, TX-DFW
Unless they gave you a ticked for not having a cat, then I doubt they will check to see if you have one. I wasn't checked when I had to have mine written off on my N/A, I just swapped back on my stock dual setup without cat, then I just had to idle it for about a minute and the cop just listened to it and wrote it off. The ticket I got was for "modified exhaust."
Haha, ticket for modified exhaust. That's funny because practically everyone in texas modifies thier exhaust from Trucks, to imports.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 4
From: San Jose, CA (NorCal/S.F. Bay Area)
^ lol yeah everyone complains about my exhaust smelling. Never heard of a $30,000 fine for removing a cat... unless you are talking about stealing a cat which is quite common nowadays.
Alright, so I guess I remembered wrong on the dollar amount. It's actually Federal Law too, so not just CA residents can be potentially shafted by it.
Here is a direct quote from the US code:
Violations.-Any person who violates sections 203(a)(1), 203(a)(4), or 203(a)(5) or any
manufacturer or dealer who violates section 203(a)(3)(A) shall be subject to a civil penalty of
not more than $25,000. Any person other than a manufacture or dealer who violates section
203(a)(3)(A) or any person who violates section 203(a)(3)(B) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $2,500. Any such violation with respect to paragraph (1), (3)(A) , or (4) of
section 203(a) shall constitute a separate offense with respect to each motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine. Any such violation with respect to section 203(a)(3)(B) shall constitute a
separate offense with respect to each part or component. Any person who violates section
203(a)(2) shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per day of violation.
I'm not exactly sure what the differences are in each section, or what circumstances would lead to $2500, $25000 or $25000 per day lol. Finding a well-organized website with the Federal Vehicle Code is harder than it should be.
Here is a direct quote from the US code:
Violations.-Any person who violates sections 203(a)(1), 203(a)(4), or 203(a)(5) or any
manufacturer or dealer who violates section 203(a)(3)(A) shall be subject to a civil penalty of
not more than $25,000. Any person other than a manufacture or dealer who violates section
203(a)(3)(A) or any person who violates section 203(a)(3)(B) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $2,500. Any such violation with respect to paragraph (1), (3)(A) , or (4) of
section 203(a) shall constitute a separate offense with respect to each motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine. Any such violation with respect to section 203(a)(3)(B) shall constitute a
separate offense with respect to each part or component. Any person who violates section
203(a)(2) shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per day of violation.
I'm not exactly sure what the differences are in each section, or what circumstances would lead to $2500, $25000 or $25000 per day lol. Finding a well-organized website with the Federal Vehicle Code is harder than it should be.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 4
From: San Jose, CA (NorCal/S.F. Bay Area)
^ Wow, that is pretty scary. Now the real question is who has actually incurred the wrath of the 25,000 fine.... There is always at least 1 criminal who was made the "example". Bet they never took off a cat again lol.
Thread Starter
Livin fo the citaaay!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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From: SoCal
wow awesome guys...thanks for the overwhelming feedback...alright trying to answer any questions or address everything...
yes i do have a tii...that is precisely why i went with 3 inch piping. and yea California sucks...lol.
the flow is fantastic and no loss in power...
now i was wondering if there are any cats i can pick up (that are legal for the fantastic smog emission ****'s known as California) that are legal...most of the ones i come across (espcially through ebay...please dont hate me...im on a serious budget and emissions are the least of my worries) say that california may not prohibit them...
however, reading up on this obdI and obdII stuff...im trying to figure out what is and is not legal for ca...
ok having said that...the ticket was a "modified exhaust" as stated previously...now the v.c. code was 27150 (a) which states:
27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.
alright...so i got pinched for noise cause he said it "smelled like crap...and sounded like crap"
sadly, cops in southern california don't appreciate the smell of gasoline and a nice low growl like a pissed off lawnmower coming from my exhaust...
he DID see that there was an absence of a cat and told me to get that fixed...whew...and yes to agree with what was above in the discussion of the fines he said that it was a federal crime and that up to 2,500 could be dealt to me and possible prison time...
lucky me...
so, cats at a decent price available for the legality of california??!?!
on a sidenote, im really now thinking about trying to pick up an rx3 that is excused from this crap and or a motorcycle...damn you california...maybe i will move to texas...there is a really cute girl that i knew from school that has been wanting me to visit her there and it sounds like a win win.
yes i do have a tii...that is precisely why i went with 3 inch piping. and yea California sucks...lol.
the flow is fantastic and no loss in power...
now i was wondering if there are any cats i can pick up (that are legal for the fantastic smog emission ****'s known as California) that are legal...most of the ones i come across (espcially through ebay...please dont hate me...im on a serious budget and emissions are the least of my worries) say that california may not prohibit them...
however, reading up on this obdI and obdII stuff...im trying to figure out what is and is not legal for ca...
ok having said that...the ticket was a "modified exhaust" as stated previously...now the v.c. code was 27150 (a) which states:
27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.
alright...so i got pinched for noise cause he said it "smelled like crap...and sounded like crap"
sadly, cops in southern california don't appreciate the smell of gasoline and a nice low growl like a pissed off lawnmower coming from my exhaust...
he DID see that there was an absence of a cat and told me to get that fixed...whew...and yes to agree with what was above in the discussion of the fines he said that it was a federal crime and that up to 2,500 could be dealt to me and possible prison time...
lucky me...
so, cats at a decent price available for the legality of california??!?!
on a sidenote, im really now thinking about trying to pick up an rx3 that is excused from this crap and or a motorcycle...damn you california...maybe i will move to texas...there is a really cute girl that i knew from school that has been wanting me to visit her there and it sounds like a win win.
Thread Starter
Livin fo the citaaay!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
oh and this is where the info came from...
actually very interesting crap that they decided to word so interestingly if you guys get a chance to read it...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/bluebook/bb03/vc/27150.htm
actually very interesting crap that they decided to word so interestingly if you guys get a chance to read it...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/bluebook/bb03/vc/27150.htm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 4
From: San Jose, CA (NorCal/S.F. Bay Area)
If you didn't get a ref ticket then just fix the exhaust and put a fake cat on and get it written off by a cop. If they ask why is smells say its a rotory, it burns oil like a two stroke.
If you are worried about the smell or emissions then put a real cat on, and any cat will do. Most muffler shops can weld on a used or cheap cat for you. Also you can get a performance high flow cat put on as a lot of times the newer material of a high flow cat will perform better than your used/old cat. Also for emissions make sure the new cat has an air pump inlet grant it your air pump equiped and working.
If you are worried about the smell or emissions then put a real cat on, and any cat will do. Most muffler shops can weld on a used or cheap cat for you. Also you can get a performance high flow cat put on as a lot of times the newer material of a high flow cat will perform better than your used/old cat. Also for emissions make sure the new cat has an air pump inlet grant it your air pump equiped and working.
you guys aren't familiar with the new cali cat laws are you? Only new OEM or OEM replacement cats can be sold and installed in California now. A 30 dollar cat just became a 400 dollar cat.
Unless the cat says some brand name all over it, no one can tell the difference. It's just yet another law that cannot be enforced anywhere, with the exception of exhaust/muffler shops.
Getting a cat is a problem, no out of state resellers will sell you one. I had to go out of state to get a cat. Then getting a muffler shop to install it is another issue, or if you can weld it in yourself, that's a plus. Legit muffler shops will not install it because the new cats have numbers stamped on them, they won't touch an older one.
I can call up any local auto parts store and order a replacement cat up. They're factory-style replacements, but they're certainly not OEM.
Here are 4 cats & some flanges to make your own: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductL...e=145&PTSet=A#
When you were looking for a cat, was it only the high-flow aftermarket variety? And what vendors turned you down?
Here are 4 cats & some flanges to make your own: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductL...e=145&PTSet=A#
When you were looking for a cat, was it only the high-flow aftermarket variety? And what vendors turned you down?
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 4
From: San Jose, CA (NorCal/S.F. Bay Area)
Smog tech here. RotoryRocket88 is completely correct. A lot of muffler shops will get you a cheap cat and weld it on for you. Unless they are really strict. Going out of state for a cat is pretty crazy.
Thread Starter
Livin fo the citaaay!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
the welding part isn't a problem at all...i can weld that baby in almost as soon as i get it. the only problem seems to be finding a 3 in. cat. lolz.
kragen...hee hee haven't been to that place in a while thanks rocket88. the only problem is it has no info on the size of the cat and im pretty sure that those are small cat inlets...
kragen...hee hee haven't been to that place in a while thanks rocket88. the only problem is it has no info on the size of the cat and im pretty sure that those are small cat inlets...
Yeah, those will all be 2" inlet/outlets. There should be 3" high flow cats you can pick up elsewhere, or find a stock replacement for a large truck. Anything that'd be the right size.
I can call up any local auto parts store and order a replacement cat up. They're factory-style replacements, but they're certainly not OEM.
Here are 4 cats & some flanges to make your own: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductL...e=145&PTSet=A#
When you were looking for a cat, was it only the high-flow aftermarket variety? And what vendors turned you down?
Here are 4 cats & some flanges to make your own: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductL...e=145&PTSet=A#
When you were looking for a cat, was it only the high-flow aftermarket variety? And what vendors turned you down?
CALIFORNIA VEHICLE APPLICATION CATALOG INSTRUCTIONS - For California Application look-up it will no longer be based upon G.V.W. (Gross Vehicle Weight) and engine size. Catalytic Converter Application look-up for California ONLY is the only approved method for determining the correct part number. It is illegal in California to select a catalytic converter for installation based solely on vehicle weight, engine size, physical shape, size, configuration or pipe diameter.
New California Aftermarket Catalytic Converters
As of January 1st, 2009, What You Can and What You Cannot Sell/Required:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;
(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;
(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles).2 Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;
(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer on the repair invoice. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;
(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);
(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter (not substrate) basis;
(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and
(H) A warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.
(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.
As of January 1st, 2009, What You Can and What You Cannot Sell/Required:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;
(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;
(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles).2 Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;
(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer on the repair invoice. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;
(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);
(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter (not substrate) basis;
(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and
(H) A warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.
(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.