Need help with freshly assembled motor - won't rotate
11-13-07, 09:21 PM
#1
Need help with freshly assembled motor - won't rotate
So I got my engine fully assembled today and I decided to rotate it to make sure it went smoothly. It did - for a while. After about 3/4 revolution of the e-shaft, it just stopped. I tried pulling on it harder and it won't budge.
What could the problem be, or is this normal? Any help would be greatly apreciated.
Also, I really need to have this motor running ASAP as I am moving in a week and I won't be able to work on it at my new location.
What could the problem be, or is this normal? Any help would be greatly apreciated.
Also, I really need to have this motor running ASAP as I am moving in a week and I won't be able to work on it at my new location.
11-13-07, 09:26 PM
#3
It can turn backwards for about a full rotation of the e-shaft, then stops again. I'm afraid I dropped something in, too. I just really don't want to have to pull it apart, because I won't have time to reassemble it..... If thats what needs to be done, then I guess thats what I'm going to have to do, though.
11-14-07, 03:39 AM
#7
Did you lube the bearings during assembly? Heck, did you check to be sure the bearings spun freely on the shaft before assembly? Did you check to be sure the oil pump spun freely after tightening it down?
How well did you clean your old rotors? Even a little carbon in an apex seal groove floor will cause the new (taller) seals and springs not to be able to fully compress, which physically locks an engine when it comes time for it to compress in it's groove.
Any chance you let a coolant seal slip out of place during stacking? It's possible that you could be feeling resistance due to the rotor hitting a chunk of pinched off coolant seal, but kinda unlikely.
IF you had the rotors milled for 3mm, the milling could be off, resulting in a seal that can't fully compress.
If you used solid cornerseals, and didn't check their clearance with the apex seal ends, they could be binding, effectively making the apex seals unable to fully compress in their slots. It's very common to need to file and clearance aftermarket solid cornerseals to suit your seals and rotors.
I also agree, take it apart and find out what is up, you will do some severe damage if you try and force it.
How well did you clean your old rotors? Even a little carbon in an apex seal groove floor will cause the new (taller) seals and springs not to be able to fully compress, which physically locks an engine when it comes time for it to compress in it's groove.
Any chance you let a coolant seal slip out of place during stacking? It's possible that you could be feeling resistance due to the rotor hitting a chunk of pinched off coolant seal, but kinda unlikely.
IF you had the rotors milled for 3mm, the milling could be off, resulting in a seal that can't fully compress.
If you used solid cornerseals, and didn't check their clearance with the apex seal ends, they could be binding, effectively making the apex seals unable to fully compress in their slots. It's very common to need to file and clearance aftermarket solid cornerseals to suit your seals and rotors.
I also agree, take it apart and find out what is up, you will do some severe damage if you try and force it.
Trending Topics
11-14-07, 09:47 AM
#8
Oil pump spins freely, rotors were spotless, bearings were lubed and spun freely. It spins fine when it spins, then it just stops suddenly. I checked all of the apex seals and they moved freely. The only thing I can think of is that something was dropped in, or an apex seal corner fell out while I was trying to get the intermediate plate on (most likely the latter). Oh well, guess I'm gonna tear it down.
11-14-07, 01:57 PM
#9
When you do tear it down, try rotating it to determine what the issue is once the back iron is off. Then carefully remove the rear rotor, and rotate it again to see if the issue is gone. This will at least tell you what half of the engine had the issue.
11-14-07, 03:14 PM
#10
Yeah, thats kinda what I was thinking I would do. I really hope that its in the rear, because then I can just leave the front stack alone. I had a bit of trouble putting on the intermediate iron, though, so I'm afraid one of the apex seal corners somehow came out of the front rotor when I was maneuvering it in place. If its in the rear I can fix it tonight, but if not there's no way I can do it before next week.
11-14-07, 07:31 PM
#11
Well, I fucked up. As I was afraid, one of the apex seal corners came off the front rotor. It out about as bad as possible. It got sandwiched between the front housing and the intermediate iron, destroying the housing. This also destroyed the front rotor, an apex seal, and a corner seal. Also, since I used sealant at the coolant seal passages due to pitting on the housings, the coolant seals are now unusable.
The count:
1 Rotor Housing
1 S5 rotor
1 apex seal
1 corner seal
all coolant seals
I'll post some pics later once I'm less depressed.
The count:
1 Rotor Housing
1 S5 rotor
1 apex seal
1 corner seal
all coolant seals
I'll post some pics later once I'm less depressed.
11-14-07, 07:49 PM
#14
Wow, that's one of the worst assembly issues I've heard of. But yes, there is a trick to using 2pc seals that aren't glued together...or you can glue them yourself.
This is not directed at you, but this is a perfect example of why it is usually in the person's best interest to just send the engine to me rather than overestimating their own abilities. The thread poster might be out a few hundred bucks extra in labor and shipping costs if he sent it to me, but he'd have a warranty and a running engine. Now he's out at least that much in replacement parts and still doesnt have a running engine.
It all sounds so simple to do on the internet, but when these tiny *** seals and springs are in YOUR hands then it is a different matter entirely if you are not used to handling the parts. I never recommend that people do their own rebuild as a first time project unless they have someone local who has done the work before to guide them through.
This is not directed at you, but this is a perfect example of why it is usually in the person's best interest to just send the engine to me rather than overestimating their own abilities. The thread poster might be out a few hundred bucks extra in labor and shipping costs if he sent it to me, but he'd have a warranty and a running engine. Now he's out at least that much in replacement parts and still doesnt have a running engine.
It all sounds so simple to do on the internet, but when these tiny *** seals and springs are in YOUR hands then it is a different matter entirely if you are not used to handling the parts. I never recommend that people do their own rebuild as a first time project unless they have someone local who has done the work before to guide them through.
11-14-07, 08:37 PM
#17
Well, you live and you learn. I could have easily had it rebuilt (I have friends who rebuild them) but I wanted to do this myself as a learning project. I knew going into it that I could screw something up, and I did. Also, this is far from my first project, it just happens to be my first time assembling a rotary. I have even watched people do it in person.
Basically, the core problem was that I used too much of the gasket material. It seeped out and caught the corner piece when I adjusted the intermediate plate.
As for the parts, there is no saving them. They are completely gone.
Luckily, I actually have another set of rotors, they're just s4's. I also have another set of housings (in excellent condition, no less) but they are NA housings. The ones I had were turbo housings that had been ported a good bit. I know a guy that can swap over the sleeves for a decent price, so I might just do that.
All told, counting all the seals I need to replace, I am out around 150-200, plus another couple hundred if I get the sleeves swapped and the new housings ported.
The main problem is that it will be quite a while until I can rebuild it. I am in the beginnings of a divorce and am moving in with my parents
until I can find another place. I was really hoping to have the car running by then so I could at least have some SOMETHING decent in my life, but fate is sometimes cruel.
Thanks for hearing me out. I feel much better after talking about it. This forum is better than group therapy.....
Basically, the core problem was that I used too much of the gasket material. It seeped out and caught the corner piece when I adjusted the intermediate plate.
As for the parts, there is no saving them. They are completely gone.
Luckily, I actually have another set of rotors, they're just s4's. I also have another set of housings (in excellent condition, no less) but they are NA housings. The ones I had were turbo housings that had been ported a good bit. I know a guy that can swap over the sleeves for a decent price, so I might just do that.
All told, counting all the seals I need to replace, I am out around 150-200, plus another couple hundred if I get the sleeves swapped and the new housings ported.
The main problem is that it will be quite a while until I can rebuild it. I am in the beginnings of a divorce and am moving in with my parents
until I can find another place. I was really hoping to have the car running by then so I could at least have some SOMETHING decent in my life, but fate is sometimes cruel.Thanks for hearing me out. I feel much better after talking about it. This forum is better than group therapy.....
11-14-07, 08:41 PM
#18
Sideways7, don't beat yourself up over this kind of thing. **** happens, lesson learned. I personally prefer to glue the corner piece onto the apex seal. And I always borrow a friend to hold the e-shaft up just enough to get the center iron in place. That way you have both hands on the iron and have full control of that heavy bastard. Best of luck to ya. Hopefully you won't need as many parts as you think.
11-14-07, 08:48 PM
#20
Also, I will glue those bastard corners on for sure next time! I will also get someone to help me out. And I probably won't use any extra gasket either. My new housings basically aren't pitted at all, though. These were pitted pretty bad in places.
11-14-07, 09:04 PM
#21
tom port.. AKA streetport
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ludlow, pa
Posts: 4,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow, sorry man.
this dont help but....
my fresh rebuild i JUST got running 2 days ago.....the oil pedstal (aftermarket bought from here in a group buy 2 years ago) decided to break. turned out the threads that the oil filter screws onto actually screws into the pedstal. well somehow i hit it hard enough (without knowing) and broke it off. the filter just kinda "sat" on the pedstal in which MOST of the oil leaked out without me knowing. im not really sure how long it ran with almost NO pressure but im SOOO glad i caught it in time and shut it down RIGHT now. i pulled it off and not a single piece of metal fell in the hole but im draining the oil and checking. or possibly even pulling the pan. the motor was only ran for a max of 10 minutes that day so im crossing my fingers its ok. i prob just took 20K of the motor
this dont help but....
my fresh rebuild i JUST got running 2 days ago.....the oil pedstal (aftermarket bought from here in a group buy 2 years ago) decided to break. turned out the threads that the oil filter screws onto actually screws into the pedstal. well somehow i hit it hard enough (without knowing) and broke it off. the filter just kinda "sat" on the pedstal in which MOST of the oil leaked out without me knowing. im not really sure how long it ran with almost NO pressure but im SOOO glad i caught it in time and shut it down RIGHT now. i pulled it off and not a single piece of metal fell in the hole but im draining the oil and checking. or possibly even pulling the pan. the motor was only ran for a max of 10 minutes that day so im crossing my fingers its ok. i prob just took 20K of the motor
