avrfan

hi,

does anyone know of a good how-to guide online or even just someone who can tell me simply what needs to be changed to make an s5 13b na engine run in an s4 na chassis?

My friend wants to put a 1991 13b engine into a 1987 chassis.

He has motor, engine harness, ecu.

What else does he need?
Does he need to change the speedo/tach cluster?
Does he need to change the dash harness?
Does he need to change anything else?

Thanks,
Dave

Icemark

Yes on everything and no on everything.

To meet CA emissions, when putting a newer motor than the car originally come with, he must also update the emissions to the same year as the motor...

This means that he must technically use a S5 ECU and engine harness. Since the S5 ECU and engine harness will not match up to a S4 front or interior harness, yes they will also need to be updated.

That is following the letter of the law.

Now, his other option is to use the S4 engine and front harnesses, replace the front cover and MOP with S4 ones, and try and convince the smog station that the car does not need an EGR valve (since the S5 does not have the EGR or the provisions for one). But since the EGR valve is one of the big things that CA smog looks for you might have trouble convicing the smog station.

All and all, either way, a S5 motor in a smog legal S4 CA car is going to be considerable amount of work.

I do not know of any online manual or write up for this conversion as it is not recommended and just about as much work as swapping in a Turbo motor (which if it was a S4 turbo motor, it is easier both to smog and to install, than putting in a S5 non turbo.

avrfan

re: passing emissions...s5 engine conversion/swap

Yes thanks for reminding me about the emissions laws. I know of the newer motor(must meet newer emissions levels) rule.

We definitely had in mind already to use the s5 engine, engine harness and s5 ecu.

please help me identify the 2 other harnesses you said need to be swapped:

*S4 Front Harness (is this the one that goes on the driverside of the engine bay to the egi fuse box, alternator, starter etc?)

*S4 Interior Harness(is this the one that runs under the dash? - I call that one the "dash harness".

Harness Question: I have never taken out a "Dash Harness" .... Does it just run pretty much from the left side to the right and totally unplug from everything running through the firewall, instruments, heater controls, etc? or do I have to pull alot of harness through holes to change it?

So the S4 ECU does not support proper operation of the MOP huh? is that an issue of not having the right harness behind the dash or more of just an issue with the "Engine Harness and ECU".

THANKS! For the collaboration!
Dave

yozsi

im doing the exactly same thing your doing. but i have the s5 engine harness and computer. i think its an issue whether or not he dash harness plugs into the s5 computer.

avrfan

yeah, I've been thinking about this whole thing on and off and I agree with you about getting the dash harness to match.

I'm just wondering if I have to change the other things that plug into the dash harness - such as the heater controls, instrument cluster, wiper/headlight switches, atmospheric pressure sensor, cpu(not ecu) security system etc...

Any idea about whether I have to change those components? or just plug into the existing ones using an s5 harness?

Dave

yozsi

yup just cut and splice.

avrfan

yozi, could you explain a little more... cut and splice where?

Thanks!
Dave

avrfan

BUMP...

yozsi

i am doing this right now, i have put in over 100 labor hours and still the engine does not fire.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

www.rotaryresurrection.com Kevin has a pretty good write up on a Series swap and conversion.

I have done a S4 NA to S5 TII Jspec engine.

Pretty much I made the car run as S4.
Meaning you need TII EFI harness,TID,boost sensor,engine(duh),tranny,slave cylinder,and other crap.

I rebuilt my jspec and had Kevin swap front covers to S4 so I can use a mechanical OMP.
I then got a S4 TB and fuel injectors(square plug)

The BAC's have different plug styles too so you need a S4 one(TII).

I had to rewire about 5 or so wires on the EFI harness to make it work in my car.
one for the temp sensor,one for voltage,and 2 for the alternator(TII has it on drivers harness while NA on EFI harness)

Pretty much compare harnesses and see what wires you have to cut.

It took me 7 months to get this car up and running. Now I am trouble shooting a voltage/alternator problem but should have it completely street ready this weekend.

avrfan

If someone figures this out.
We have to document the changes/mods required so other people can do the swap with more ease. If I delve into this project and succeed. I am going to document everything that I do and try to put it up online for everyone to use.

Anyone else out there have knowledge or experience to share, please post some replies on this thread.

Mainly I'm interested in Non-turbo S5 into S4 Swaps. The big mystery for me is what is specifically different on the wiring and harnesses.

i.e. "The S5 Needs ...*** ... and the S4 doesn't have that component or is not wired for it... i.e. so you have to run a wire for that or change that section of harness and connect to pin #x on dash harness etc."

i.e. "The dash harness from the S5 does not plug into the S4 CPU or does not plug into the Ignition switch plug ...i.e. so you need to change the igition, CPU, Fusebox, etc..."

i.e. "The pinouts on the ECU are different for the dash harness plug for the S5. so you have to move g/b wire from pin#x and splice into pin#y" etc.

I know this is alot to ask but it would be awesome if somebody knew this detail.

Thanks,
Dave

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well one fact.
If you use a S5 ECU you have to use the S5 EFI harness and OMP since the ECU will go into limp mode if not there.

S4 has mechnical OMP which is connected via a linkage rod to the TB.

S5 OMP is electronically controlled by ECU.

The S5 dash/cluster harness has different pins so you have to do rewiring if doing a ECU switch as well.

The best way to do rewiring is with a multimeter. Use the Tone out option and start running through wires to understand where the pin out is on one harness then determine what is there on the other.

On The TII EFI I had to move the Yellow w/ red temp sensor wire to a different position on the Orange EFI to Main harness plug.

The other two wires have to be run are a Black w/white and White w/ Black wire to the prange plug as well.

On the TII harness these pin poistions are semi blank.
They are spliced into other wires (I think ground and 12v power or both are ground).

Once you find these spliced lines cut it off and close that extra piece of the splice off. Pretty much cut the Y part so it's no longer splicing in.

solder in your two lines and run them up the EFI harnes to where the alternator will be.

In the end of a S4-5 TII conversion you should know what every plug does and be really good at soldering.

avrfan

Thanks for the feedback. So essentially to swap a s5 TII engine into an s4 chassis you only change 3 wires?

1)The temp wire
2) 3) and the two wires for the Alternator(b/w and w/b color wires)
run to the empty slots on the Orange plug on the EFI harness? which I believe attaches somewhere under the right kick panel correct?

If I am wrong please correct me - this can be helpful to other people attempting this swap.

Dave

DubbayoC

hey Dave! remember me!?!? i was the repoguy that bought those coilover from ya. anyway about your question. could make it easier and just to a s5 block conversion. thats what i have now in my 86 sport. have fun