My screwed up idle thread (epic)
HAILERS
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 27
From: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
NO YOU BIG DUMMY! Don't put it back together! (some humor, some).
IF you sprayed and the rpms went up, and your sure it's the lower intake, well fix it.
It SEEMS your wife is the smart one in the family.
If you had not mentioned that spraying around the lower intake maifold, I'da suggested some other things.
Like, did the **** for brains person who owned it prior to you install the vacuum lines right on the back of the throttle body? Those three or four that are one above the other? Only one of which is vacuum and the others are not vacuum? If you put the primary fuel injector bleeds hose line on a source of vacuum you screw the pooch. But you probably checked that.
Or if the idle were irregular you might pull the ACV off and plug the two holes for the anti afterburn valve, the only two holes on a ACV that lead to the intake itself (well, really only one). You didn't check that BECAUSE the lower intake manifold is leaking.
And are the three vacuum lines on the front going where they are supposed to?? Mix those and you screw the idle. But you checked that.
And the favorite is the 5/8 line from the BAC to the turbo outlet ducting. Loose clamp or busted end on that will do you in. But you checked that.
Or the purge line with the silver check valve on it that goes into the tubo inlet duct being left off/half *** installed. But you checked that.
Or the timing as mentioned being set with the rpms over 1100 rpms, a genuine screw the pooch award for those guys. But you checked that.
Injector grommets already been mentioned. But you checked that.
I'd remove the sub zero start system if that is what you meant earlier instead of the cold start stuff.
The brake booster line b/t the firewall and the back of the throttle body can crack. But you checked that.
Most people seem to have a problem figuring out the vacuum lines at the back of the engine that feed the solenoids/EGR/ACV. I've no reason why, but they can be misrouted. But you checked those.
That BS being said, you KNOW the lower intake manifold is leaking so fix it first. Buy the 0-rings for the coolant passages before you do that Those two large o'rings, but you know that.
And every time I go to the wrecking yard I see RX that look better than mine (not hard to do given my dislike of daily maint and polish/wax/drudgery. They need to bring back slavery).
Did I call you a DUMMY??? Kidding. Your a Coneheaded (Lockheed term)avionics whacko (humor).
So if you put it back together without fixing the bad intake gasket, try this. Once warmed up and idling crummy, turn that variable resistor full rich and see if the rpm's and tone of the engine change. It might give you a hint.
Or another idea, you could install your Wideband (prior to the cats if her car has a cat), on HER car and watch it as the engine idles crummy to give you some ideas. If you do that pull the BLUE connector off the Relief solenoid so the ACV air won't go to the exaust ports and head fake you.
Have a FUN weekend. Regards.
IF you sprayed and the rpms went up, and your sure it's the lower intake, well fix it.
It SEEMS your wife is the smart one in the family.
If you had not mentioned that spraying around the lower intake maifold, I'da suggested some other things.
Like, did the **** for brains person who owned it prior to you install the vacuum lines right on the back of the throttle body? Those three or four that are one above the other? Only one of which is vacuum and the others are not vacuum? If you put the primary fuel injector bleeds hose line on a source of vacuum you screw the pooch. But you probably checked that.
Or if the idle were irregular you might pull the ACV off and plug the two holes for the anti afterburn valve, the only two holes on a ACV that lead to the intake itself (well, really only one). You didn't check that BECAUSE the lower intake manifold is leaking.
And are the three vacuum lines on the front going where they are supposed to?? Mix those and you screw the idle. But you checked that.
And the favorite is the 5/8 line from the BAC to the turbo outlet ducting. Loose clamp or busted end on that will do you in. But you checked that.
Or the purge line with the silver check valve on it that goes into the tubo inlet duct being left off/half *** installed. But you checked that.
Or the timing as mentioned being set with the rpms over 1100 rpms, a genuine screw the pooch award for those guys. But you checked that.
Injector grommets already been mentioned. But you checked that.
I'd remove the sub zero start system if that is what you meant earlier instead of the cold start stuff.
The brake booster line b/t the firewall and the back of the throttle body can crack. But you checked that.
Most people seem to have a problem figuring out the vacuum lines at the back of the engine that feed the solenoids/EGR/ACV. I've no reason why, but they can be misrouted. But you checked those.
That BS being said, you KNOW the lower intake manifold is leaking so fix it first. Buy the 0-rings for the coolant passages before you do that Those two large o'rings, but you know that.
And every time I go to the wrecking yard I see RX that look better than mine (not hard to do given my dislike of daily maint and polish/wax/drudgery. They need to bring back slavery).
Did I call you a DUMMY??? Kidding. Your a Coneheaded (Lockheed term)avionics whacko (humor).
So if you put it back together without fixing the bad intake gasket, try this. Once warmed up and idling crummy, turn that variable resistor full rich and see if the rpm's and tone of the engine change. It might give you a hint.
Or another idea, you could install your Wideband (prior to the cats if her car has a cat), on HER car and watch it as the engine idles crummy to give you some ideas. If you do that pull the BLUE connector off the Relief solenoid so the ACV air won't go to the exaust ports and head fake you.
Have a FUN weekend. Regards.
Last edited by HAILERS; Jan 27, 2007 at 01:39 PM.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
Likes: 22
From: n
Originally Posted by Karack
well the LIM gasket does crack occasionally but it isn't all too common, some people seem to think just because it is missing some chunks it wasn't sealing which isn't necessarily the case.
-Ted
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,093
Likes: 2
From: Hood River oregon
Originally Posted by HAILERS
NO YOU BIG DUMMY! Don't put it back together! (some humor, some).
IF you sprayed and the rpms went up, and your sure it's the lower intake, well fix it.
IF you sprayed and the rpms went up, and your sure it's the lower intake, well fix it.
It SEEMS your wife is the smart one in the family.
Like, did the **** for brains person who owned it prior to you install the vacuum lines right on the back of the throttle body?
Those three or four that are one above the other? Only one of which is vacuum and the others are not vacuum? If you put the primary fuel injector bleeds hose line on a source of vacuum you screw the pooch. But you probably checked that.
Or if the idle were irregular you might pull the ACV off and plug the two holes for the anti afterburn valve, the only two holes on a ACV that lead to the intake itself (well, really only one). You didn't check that BECAUSE the lower intake manifold is leaking.
And the favorite is the 5/8 line from the BAC to the turbo outlet ducting. Loose clamp or busted end on that will do you in. But you checked that.
Or the purge line with the silver check valve on it that goes into the tubo inlet duct being left off/half *** installed. But you checked that.
Or the purge line with the silver check valve on it that goes into the tubo inlet duct being left off/half *** installed. But you checked that.
Or the timing as mentioned being set with the rpms over 1100 rpms, a genuine screw the pooch award for those guys. But you checked that.
Injector grommets already been mentioned. But you checked that.
I'd remove the sub zero start system if that is what you meant earlier instead of the cold start stuff.
The brake booster line b/t the firewall and the back of the throttle body can crack. But you checked that.
Most people seem to have a problem figuring out the vacuum lines at the back of the engine that feed the solenoids/EGR/ACV. I've no reason why, but they can be misrouted. But you checked those.
Did I call you a DUMMY??? Kidding. Your a Coneheaded (Lockheed term)avionics whacko (humor).
So if you put it back together without fixing the bad intake gasket, try this. Once warmed up and idling crummy, turn that variable resistor full rich and see if the rpm's and tone of the engine change. It might give you a hint.
Have a FUN weekend. Regards.
you have a fun weekend too! I will post results as they come, including the results of your suggestions!
Rat
i think it would be wise to take the lim off.
since you have all the time in the world - why rush it and put it all together?
did you try setting the timing when the car is off - or at least checked it? its hard to go thru all the posts on a pocket pc....
with it off, timing mark on yellow, the CAS should be closed to the two long things lined up, with the two long things slightly up, the bottom gear thing lined up with the black sender things....
for some reason, i think your thermowax high idle doesnt work either... maybe before you set the idle after you put it all back, find something, like 3 or 4 pennies, and put it ontop of the thermowax and see if that helps???
since you have all the time in the world - why rush it and put it all together?
did you try setting the timing when the car is off - or at least checked it? its hard to go thru all the posts on a pocket pc....
with it off, timing mark on yellow, the CAS should be closed to the two long things lined up, with the two long things slightly up, the bottom gear thing lined up with the black sender things....
for some reason, i think your thermowax high idle doesnt work either... maybe before you set the idle after you put it all back, find something, like 3 or 4 pennies, and put it ontop of the thermowax and see if that helps???
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,093
Likes: 2
From: Hood River oregon
Rock on! its quarter to 5 and I am smoked! New vac rack made it idle much better, but the original problem remains... Too rich, no idle below 1100 now, and spraying carb cleaner in the LIM area still runs the RPMs up. Sooooo..
Time to rip it apart again! I am getting good at this...
On a side note, the 500 hp beastie just lunched another clutch... as if I didnt have enough crap to do... Gotta go pick up another FC tomorrow...
Time to rip it apart again! I am getting good at this...
On a side note, the 500 hp beastie just lunched another clutch... as if I didnt have enough crap to do... Gotta go pick up another FC tomorrow...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,093
Likes: 2
From: Hood River oregon
Originally Posted by slpin
did you try setting the timing when the car is off -
with it off, timing mark on yellow, the CAS should be closed to the two long things lined up, with the two long things slightly up, the bottom gear thing lined up with the black sender things....
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,093
Likes: 2
From: Hood River oregon
Update to the update
Put it all back together.
The new vac rack is awesome. For those cars on emissions racks, I HIGHLY recommend rebuilding it!
For Karack:
I pressure tested my "supposedly" cleaned and flowed injectors, and wouldnt you know it, one is still leaking. Quite significantly at that. Good call.
For Hailers: I have an ACV blockoff plate now, so I will be eliminating that.
And lastly, it runs a WHOLE lot better, but its still a bit rich and you can still spray carb cleaner in the LIM area and get an RPM rise. Idle is now down to 1200 (down from 2200!).
The new vac rack is awesome. For those cars on emissions racks, I HIGHLY recommend rebuilding it!
For Karack:
I pressure tested my "supposedly" cleaned and flowed injectors, and wouldnt you know it, one is still leaking. Quite significantly at that. Good call.
For Hailers: I have an ACV blockoff plate now, so I will be eliminating that.
And lastly, it runs a WHOLE lot better, but its still a bit rich and you can still spray carb cleaner in the LIM area and get an RPM rise. Idle is now down to 1200 (down from 2200!).
you dont need to give me an attitude
last time i fixed an idle problem, the car worked on the first shot...
you said you dont know how to set the timing if the car wont idle right - well, im trying to explain it to you.... car off, yellow mark at timing mark, then make the cas look like this with cover off....
last time i fixed an idle problem, the car worked on the first shot...
you said you dont know how to set the timing if the car wont idle right - well, im trying to explain it to you.... car off, yellow mark at timing mark, then make the cas look like this with cover off....
Last edited by slpin; Jan 29, 2007 at 11:46 AM.
Bah, who needs emissions and rat nests.
My method is to remove it all. That way I have like 3 things which can be culprits.
Get a DP,PS or muffler to replace the cat and ditch all that stuff. Then have the mod acv and a cat for emissions time. It will be stock turbo and everything but without that extra crap and a bit more boost and mpg from a clear exhaust
---
I bet it's LIM related too. This isn't your DD so just sit the thing in the garage and slowly get it done. I use to use an extra afm with a 3inch pipe plug in it to test for vac leaks. Just stick a compressor with a low setting to a vac line and listen for hissing.
My method is to remove it all. That way I have like 3 things which can be culprits.
Get a DP,PS or muffler to replace the cat and ditch all that stuff. Then have the mod acv and a cat for emissions time. It will be stock turbo and everything but without that extra crap and a bit more boost and mpg from a clear exhaust
---
I bet it's LIM related too. This isn't your DD so just sit the thing in the garage and slowly get it done. I use to use an extra afm with a 3inch pipe plug in it to test for vac leaks. Just stick a compressor with a low setting to a vac line and listen for hissing.
mine still bumps from 1000 to 1500 but for only like 2 min after i take my foot off the gas. then it just settles back down to 900. lol. im hoping that my microtec will fix that problem.
SpyderValentine
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Have you checked/cleaned out the BAC???? I did some checking over on Aaroncake.net about idle surging (as mine did it too) and thats the solution that seemed to work well for me. Car idles at 750 rpm just like it should!!
On a side note, have you removed emissions at all? OR do you have an emissions law where your at.
On a side note, have you removed emissions at all? OR do you have an emissions law where your at.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,093
Likes: 2
From: Hood River oregon
Originally Posted by slpin
you said you dont know how to set the timing if the car wont idle right - well, im trying to explain it to you.... car off, yellow mark at timing mark, then make the cas look like this with cover off....
Originally Posted by Digi7ech
I use to use an extra afm with a 3inch pipe plug in it to test for vac leaks. Just stick a compressor with a low setting to a vac line and listen for hissing.
Originally Posted by Syncro
Is it even possible to get an idle (with no emissions related stuff) which is as solid as an emissions equiped car?
Originally Posted by X_Facedown_X
Have you checked/cleaned out the BAC???? I did some checking over on Aaroncake.net about idle surging (as mine did it too) and thats the solution that seemed to work well for me. Car idles at 750 rpm just like it should!!
On a side note, have you removed emissions at all? OR do you have an emissions law where your at.
On a side note, have you removed emissions at all? OR do you have an emissions law where your at.
List of things to do tonight:
1. Block of ACV (per HAILERS)
2. Check/clean/reseal BAC (per X_facedown_X}
3. Check for vac leaks using the compressor method. (Per Digi7ech)
If all this is a no go, I already ordered the gaskets for the LIM and turbo. I will start prepping the LIM for removal.
As of now, the idle is down to 1200 and sounds a WHOLE lot healthier! I am actually enjoying this little experiment! Gives me something to do when the Mrs is plugged into the television...
Originally Posted by Syncro
Is it even possible to get an idle (with no emissions related stuff) which is as solid as an emissions equiped car?
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 2
From: Orange Park FL (near Jax)
As I was reading through this thread I was remembering all the crap I went through trying to get my son's F150 to run.
It had been sitting for a year & the fuel system (with a new pump, screen & filter) still kept spitting trash into the injectors. I lost count on how many times we pulled the UIM & recleaned the injectors.
That was last year, and it still runs crappy. (It's now HIS problem)
It had been sitting for a year & the fuel system (with a new pump, screen & filter) still kept spitting trash into the injectors. I lost count on how many times we pulled the UIM & recleaned the injectors.
That was last year, and it still runs crappy. (It's now HIS problem)