My bell housing exploded!!
 

Okay, not really... But, I might with the heat it produces and with the fuel that's POURING through it when I crank the engine...

We (my auto shop group and I) had everything else fine tooned and ready to drive the car out of the shop. Or, so we thought.

We noticed an oil colored leak that smelled of fuel. After getting the car on the hoist we notice that it's fuel pouring through the bell housing. The top of the housing is dry, meaning that fuel isn't pouring into then through the housing. I suspect that it's coming from the rear main seal or something...

We've pulled the intake off and looked for anything pinched in the bell housing to mounting bolts. Nothing. I'm about to give up on this car and tow it over to a professional tech... I'm completely stumped.

My car is an '86 GXL with a Jspec TII swapped in.

Any advice or answers would be awesome!

Please and thank you,
Scott

are you sure its coming from the bell housing? could it be a loose line or a line with a hole coming from the fuel pump spraying onto it making it look like its coming from the housing?

I'm sure it's from the bell housing... We pulled off the cover plate on the bell housing and had someone crank on it. It started dripping a constant stream off the counter weight and flywheel directly.

Check the oil pedestal.there are 2 O rings under it.
also have you replaced a Oil filter lately?Could be that you Inadvertently Left a Rubber O ring from a Old filter on..it would cause a Leak.

I have replaced the old filter lately. Yesturday in fact... One of the other guys did it too... I'll have to check that.

Is there anyway that I could be coming from the rear main seal at all? The car is at my High School and I'm trying to get a list of things to check now.

Also, the car isn't starting up anymore... The first time I went to start it, it started right up no problems. Untill I reved it up to maybe 2.5 RPM's Maybe 3. Now she's running like crap. She has trouble holding an idle and a bunch of other issues.

The only possible way for fuel to make its way onto the flywheel is if the hoses on your primary or secondary rail are leaking, or you PD is leaking badly. Pull the manifold and it will be obvious where the fuel waterfall is coming from.

I did pull the upper manifold right after the leak was noticed... And, there's nothing on top of block / bell housing. Bone dry.

The motor could leak out of the rear main seal only if it was pretty much missing and the rear rotor was completely flooded.

A buddy of mine had his front cover cracked which ultimately left his engine running like crap because he lost oil pressure. He replaced the front cover and car ran beautifully again. You could have lost enough oil pressure to make a difference if especially if there's a major oil leak somewhere in the rear iron. Coolant may also be mixed in the oil depending on the location of the leak, which could give off a sweet smell that could be mistaken as fuel. If the fluid leaking is darker in color or similar to oil that could be it.

Well, the exhaust doesn't smell sweet at all. Nor does the fluid that it's leaking. It's deffinately fuel scented and the exhaust fumes smell strong of fuel. Meaning it's running rich right?

We're almost done pulling the tranny out. We're going to check out the rear of the engine after it's down. Which should be early tomorrow.

At that point, we're going to remove the fuel injection fuse (as we have done before) and crank on the engine just to see what she does and where she's leaking.

Fingers crossed that I won't have to go for a rebuild... But, if so I'll get her street ported whilst I'm at it.

Anyone know a good place for rebuilding rotaries in the Boise Idaho area??

Please and thank you,
Scott

Sounds like a hell of an auto shop class project..... learning how easy it is to rebuild these guys! Im keeping my fingers crossed for ya!

Alright, today we pulled the tranny, drive shaft, and, starter out. We then turned the key to the start position which pressurized the lines. We could hear the pump running and we could feel fuel going through the lines. We looked for any leaks and couldn't find any at all. So, I've come to decide that the leak only happens whilst the engine is being cranked on.

If there is any other logical explanation please let me know.

I've called two dealer ships one other independant Mazda specialist auto shop. And, one of my buddies from the local rotary club. Everyone but one of the dealerships said that they had no idea. The one dealership said to replace all of my fuel injectors.

Please also note that it only leaks while the engine is being cranked to start or is running. This is both with and without the fuel injection fuse removed.

Please and thank you,
Scott

Still havent found where it leaks FROM?

Have you checked for a severely flooded motor?

when you have the fuel pump on and you feel fuel flowing through the lines, try pinching off the return line, i had a similar problem with my FD, fuel only leaked when cranking, turned out when i pinched the return it put full pressure on the lines and it sprayed out. the stock spring clamps werent strong enough, had to switch to worm clamps.

is it possible that the engine became so flooded that the fuel leaked into your oil through the oil seals, then thin'd out your oil and making it thin enough to pass through your rear main, pull your dipstick and smell it

To texFCturboII: I have a Walboro fuel pump. So, it should be pushing 90psi or so. And, with the tranny removed and the engine not being cranked on. I am not seeing any leaking anywhere at all.
Please re-note that the top of the bell housing was bone dry during the bellhousing leaking. (Meaning that the leak is coming from inside the bellhousing?)

To farberio: I have done the de-flooding process many times. I've done the fuel injection fuse pulling with WOT method with and without the injectors in.
Odd thing of note, the bottom injectors were always bone dry when I pulled them and the top ones always had just a little bit of oil gas mix on them.

To kyleaudio: I've heard of that method and neglected to think of using it in this situation. I'll try that tomorrow at school.

To rotaryryan24: Now, I've never heard of that... I'm also running with no exhaust from the turbo back. (I have no downpipe that matches up to it at the moment.) I never saw raw fuel being pumped out of the turbo. But, I guess that it's quite possible. I forgot to plug in all the vacuum lines on the TB so it was running pig rich. I will also check the scent of my oil tomorrow. If the oil has fuel in it, that probably means that I need to do an oil change doesn't it? And, I just put fresh Royal Purple in it to...

I just talked to another dealership, they said that I should replace ALL of my injectors. I have both the primary and secondary fuel injectors from my '86 GXL they are low impendance just like the ones on the Jspec TII that I bought... My question is... How many CC's are the N/A injectors and how many CC's are the TII injectors... Are they interchangeable with out worrying about leaning out the fuel mixture?

Be thankful for this problem!!!

N/A's are 460cc I think. TII are 550cc. You NEED the TII injectors.

Just out of curiosity, why should I be thankful for this problem?

Do not use NA injectors on a TII engine. They're only 460cc, while TIIs are 550cc. This isn't going to be causing your problem, but if you get the thing running, it will blow in no time at all.

Something you might try is bolting up just the transmission bell housing and starter, so you can still crank it over. Stick whoever draws the short straw under the car to watch what happens when you spin the engine.

To RotaryRocket88: I've opted for the short straw, just because I couldn't believe it when they said it was dripping from the tranny.
I pulled the bottom cover off of the Bell Housing, and had 'em crank on the engine with and with out the fuel injection fuse in.
Both times there was a 1-2cm wide stream of almost power steering colored fluid dripping from the flywheel and rear counter weight. After holding my hand in the stream the fluid smelled very strong of fuel. The leaking stops shortly after the engine stops spinning. That's when we pulled the tranny today and couldn't find anything with the fuel system pressurised.

With that last description, I'd have to say it's more likely oil than fuel. There may be some fuel mixed in to give it more of a fuel smell, but the scents are similar anyway. The fact that it still did it with the EGI fuse pulled, means it can't be fuel from the lines at least.

The rear main seal is right in the area you described, and if it's bad, it will leak oil when the system is pressurized. You'll have to remove the flywheel to get a better look.

In order to change the rear main seal, I'd have to unbolt the rear iron wouldn't I? Meaning an engine rebuild...

since you've got the tranny off anyways, it would definately be a good time to pop the flywheel and replace the rear main seal anyways even if it does look fine, all you need to do is pry it out of the rear stationary gear and tap in a new one with a hammer, not too hard. you can also check the torque on all of the tension bolts too.

To replace the rear main seal, do I have to unbolt the tensioner bolts?

No. It's strange that the liquid that is leaking out of the rear main seal smells like fuel. Possibly severely flooded, and a ton fuel mixed with oil behind the oil control rings, and is then leaking out of the rear main seal? That's the only possibility I can think of. :dunno:

Alright, I'll have to pull the tranny back out... The rear main seems like the most logical explanation...

Tomorrow I'll check the fuel return set up by squeezing the return line.
Then, I'll do a bleed test on my primary fuel line... See if it's holding pressure, if not one of my injectors is stuck open or something.
After that, the scent of my oil will be tested.
If everything above clears out, we'll re-pull the tranny and replace the rear main...

Wow, busy day scheduled tomorrow. Lol.

Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated.
Scott

I hope you have a 54mm socket ready :awesome: and a big-ass breaker bar or insane impact gun. Have fun. :icon_tup:

nope, dont have to unbolt anything (other then the flywheel), simply pry out the main seal, its the orange thing arround the e-shaft, it'll pop right out with a screw driver, then just gently tap in the new one with a soft faced hammer going arround the seal.

also if you cant find a 55mm socket a 2-3/16" socket will work too.

The auto shop that I'm workin' in at school has a pretty sick set up for tools that students can borrow during class.

I've already pulled apart my old N/A engine and done a clutch job and flywheel re-surfacing. I'm not too worried about the flywheel. ;D

2-1/8"

err, you are right, i just checked and that size is just about perfect! strange, brian (japan2la) told me to use 2-3/16"? oh well, guess its good i got the JUMBO socket set at harbor freight!

There an o-ring behind the rear stationary gear you should check too, while you're in there replacing the rear main.


<-----my 1000th post!!

^ Yay!!!

Alright guys, I did a few things on the car today... We spent extra time in class so I didn't get everything that I wanted done, done.

First, we pulled the dip stick from the oil pan and it smelled STRONG of fuel.
So, I'll have to change the oil now won't I? And, what could've made fuel get into the oil pan in the first place? I need to make sure that doesn't happen again... I can tell you that for a little while I did the noobish mistake of having the fuel lines mixed up and having a lot of the vacuum lines unplugged. Making the engine run rich... But, would that force fuel into the oil pan?

Then, we crimpped the fuel return line closed. No leaks anywhere, accept for the bell housing still...

Finally we hooked up the fuel system pressure test kit and pressurized the system with a gauge attatched. I'm running a Walboro fuel pump on an otherwise stock fuel system. The system held pressure at just under 30 psi. No less than 27 psi. ever.
That means that my injectors aren't stuck open.

So, with those tests out of the way, I'm convinced that the fuel/oil mixture is seaping out of the rear main seal. Whether or not it's because of the fuel being in the system I don't know. But, I'm going to drain the oil pan and then replace the rear main seal. Hopfully that'll fix the problem. And, depending on how my clutch looks I might as well replace that and get the flywheel surfaced while the tranny is out eh?

Was it severely flooded then allowed to sit for a long time? Maybe the fuel sitting in the combustion chamber seeped past the side seals and the oil control rings into the oil. Or possibly the oil control rings are really bad and allowing fuel to seep past into the oil. Just throwing ideas out there. :dunno:

To need RX7: I've no idea how the engine was treated before I got ahold of it. It is a Jspec modle that I bought from Japan2la, Brian for those of you that have done buisness with him, It could've been soaked in a gasoline tank for all I know. But, it has good compression and that's really all I know. And for the oil control rings... I'm really hoping not... That would make me quite disheartened... I saved for six or so months to buy the engine and all of the associated swap parts. Lol. I can't afford a re-build.
But hey, if a rebuild is needed might as well get her street ported too while I'm at it eh? Bright side to every situation. :D

I'm not going to get to work on the car again untill Monday, I'll get the rear main seal from NAPA and a new clutch line too. Mine is about shredded.

Fingers crossed she'll be running like a champ after that eh?

might be a good idea to make sure that it isnt flooded now before you change your oil out too (pull the EGI fuse and crank the engine for about 20-30 seconds with the gas pedal to the floor to clear it out). replace that main seal and pull the rear stationary gear out and replace the O-ring back there too (good idea while your in there) resurface that flywheel and put it all back together and torque it to spec, change the oil out and it should be fine! good luck!

Would you happen to know the name of the O-Ring behind the stationary gear? That way I can get it ordered before school starts up on Monday.

"o-ring for rear stationary gear" is whats its called be very carefull if you do pull this out.

You make it sound like removing that rear O-Ring is a refined process. Anything imparticular that I need to look out for?

Mazdatrix: http://www.mazdatrix.com/b2.htm pn:10-555A-0813

Remove the gear, replace seal and o-ring, install. Just dont disturb the engine while the gear is out.

So, today was an interesting day in the shop class... We started with the four main ASE tests and I passed all of the three that I took today. Crossing my fingers for tomorrow.

After that we jumped right into the shop. We finished pulling the tranny back out, and after seeing my flywheel off for the third time, I noticed that it had a really light weight after market flywheel. Maybe 12 lbs. max.

That's not even the best part though. After we got the fly wheel off, we used a prybar and pulled the rear main seal out... And with the seal about a cup and a half of oil/gas mix. More gas than oil. Lol, it had the viscocity of water.

So! There is definately fuel in my oil pan. And, A LOT OF IT!! We pulled the oil filler tube off at the gasket and noticed that fuel is coming into the oil pan from there. I'm assuming it's coming in from the vacuum line that connects to the top of that.

Now, as far as I know... There's no way in hell that a properly running/routed engine should have fuel in a vacuum line.

Anyone else delt with that one?
Please and thank you,
Scott

The two vac lines on the oil filler neck are for the PCV system. It connects to the TID and to the charcoal canister. The charcoal canister just collects fuel vapors and recirculates them. If any of that vapor were to collect and re-form liquid gas, it would flow out the bottom of the canister. There's a hose on the bottom. You can pull the canister and see if it's full of fuel, but I can't see that happening. Did you actually see any fuel running out of the hoses?

I personally didn't I was in the car cranking on the engine... Q, my buddy, said that fuel was coming straight out of the upper part of the oil filler tube.


We had the upper part removed.

Man that is nuts. This is thread is like watching an episode of HOUSE.

Fewer boobs though.

might be a good idea to get the vacuum hose diagram and check all of your hoses and solonoids and your fuel hoses too, if there is that much fuel flowing into your oil filler, the fuel has to be coming from somewhere! you could try following the hose that has the fuel coming out of it back and see where it goes too, thta might give you some answers. check your pulsation damper too, i've never heard of this, but i guess it is possible that fuel is flowing through the vacuum nipple or something? strange... good luck tho!

ps. i agree with dltreezan, this is kindof like a house episode with massive internal bleeding coming from nowhere! lol. i also agee with clokker too, boobs would make this more fun! everything is more fun with boobs!