my battery BLEW UP!!!! IN my face!!! HELP
06-17-07, 09:35 PM
#26
I think this is the 3rd time I've heard about a reverse hooked up battery within the last couple weeks.
I've been thinking about rigging up some diodes to prevent reverse current from the battery (one pair of diodes) while still letting the alternator charge the battery (another pair of diodes). I'd also provide instructions, and any other bits & pieces needed besides solder and a soldering iron. And I'd have to check an electrical schematic to make sure this is possible. It'd probably be $20 shipped when all is said and done. I'd load test it, then install it in my own car first, of course. Would anyone be interested?
By the way, the order you connect the battery terminals really doesn't matter... unless your tool or some other metal object shunts the positive terminal to the chasis. That's why you connect the positive terminal first, so that the negative terminal won't be connected to the chasis. That way when your tool/etc. accidentally connects the positive terminal to the chasis nothing happens. But otherwise it doesn't matter; it's only a safety pre-caution that probably didn't cause the O.P.'s problem. Yeah, maybe he shorted it with his tool and that spark all the way by the fender or wherever ignited hydrogen gas that somehow has continued spewing since he left the auto store and hasn't dissipated. In fact, it is still concentrated enough a few inches away from the battery to explode. But I seriously doubt it.
I've been thinking about rigging up some diodes to prevent reverse current from the battery (one pair of diodes) while still letting the alternator charge the battery (another pair of diodes). I'd also provide instructions, and any other bits & pieces needed besides solder and a soldering iron. And I'd have to check an electrical schematic to make sure this is possible. It'd probably be $20 shipped when all is said and done. I'd load test it, then install it in my own car first, of course. Would anyone be interested?
By the way, the order you connect the battery terminals really doesn't matter... unless your tool or some other metal object shunts the positive terminal to the chasis. That's why you connect the positive terminal first, so that the negative terminal won't be connected to the chasis. That way when your tool/etc. accidentally connects the positive terminal to the chasis nothing happens. But otherwise it doesn't matter; it's only a safety pre-caution that probably didn't cause the O.P.'s problem. Yeah, maybe he shorted it with his tool and that spark all the way by the fender or wherever ignited hydrogen gas that somehow has continued spewing since he left the auto store and hasn't dissipated. In fact, it is still concentrated enough a few inches away from the battery to explode. But I seriously doubt it.
Last edited by ericgrau; 06-17-07 at 09:45 PM.
06-17-07, 09:51 PM
#27
When you recharge a battery little bubbles of hydrogen form on the lead plates. once these bubbles get big enough they rise to the surface and pop filling the air chamber with flamible hydrogen gas. Charging a battery very quickly like auto part stores do causes these bubbles to form more rapidly and makes more of them than a slower charge would. When you hooked up your terminals backwords you created a spark at the terminal and ignighted some hydrogen gas that was leaking out. Since the battery was recentally rapidly charged this caused pressure to build in your semi-sealed battery. Hydrogen gas under pressure with an ignition makes a big boom. Remember the hindinburg!
too bad mazda didn't use a red wire for positive, instead they use a solid black wire for positive and a black wire with white tracer for negative which leads to this happening quite often.
06-17-07, 11:50 PM
#28
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
I think this is the 3rd time I've heard about a reverse hooked up battery within the last couple weeks.
I've been thinking about rigging up some diodes to prevent reverse current from the battery (one pair of diodes) while still letting the alternator charge the battery (another pair of diodes). I'd also provide instructions, and any other bits & pieces needed besides solder and a soldering iron. And I'd have to check an electrical schematic to make sure this is possible. It'd probably be $20 shipped when all is said and done. I'd load test it, then install it in my own car first, of course. Would anyone be interested?
By the way, the order you connect the battery terminals really doesn't matter... unless your tool or some other metal object shunts the positive terminal to the chasis. That's why you connect the positive terminal first, so that the negative terminal won't be connected to the chasis. That way when your tool/etc. accidentally connects the positive terminal to the chasis nothing happens. But otherwise it doesn't matter; it's only a safety pre-caution that probably didn't cause the O.P.'s problem. Yeah, maybe he shorted it with his tool and that spark all the way by the fender or wherever ignited hydrogen gas that somehow has continued spewing since he left the auto store and hasn't dissipated. In fact, it is still concentrated enough a few inches away from the battery to explode. But I seriously doubt it.
I've been thinking about rigging up some diodes to prevent reverse current from the battery (one pair of diodes) while still letting the alternator charge the battery (another pair of diodes). I'd also provide instructions, and any other bits & pieces needed besides solder and a soldering iron. And I'd have to check an electrical schematic to make sure this is possible. It'd probably be $20 shipped when all is said and done. I'd load test it, then install it in my own car first, of course. Would anyone be interested?
By the way, the order you connect the battery terminals really doesn't matter... unless your tool or some other metal object shunts the positive terminal to the chasis. That's why you connect the positive terminal first, so that the negative terminal won't be connected to the chasis. That way when your tool/etc. accidentally connects the positive terminal to the chasis nothing happens. But otherwise it doesn't matter; it's only a safety pre-caution that probably didn't cause the O.P.'s problem. Yeah, maybe he shorted it with his tool and that spark all the way by the fender or wherever ignited hydrogen gas that somehow has continued spewing since he left the auto store and hasn't dissipated. In fact, it is still concentrated enough a few inches away from the battery to explode. But I seriously doubt it.
06-17-07, 11:56 PM
#29
they can handle 400A peak. I'd be wiring 2 in parallel to handle 70 amps all the time, which would mean they could handle 800A peak for cranking. With diodes and other semiconductors your main enemy is heat. You can pass quite a bit of current through a semiconductor as long as you don't do it so long that it overheats.
EDIT: However, I also saw one of my fears confirmed on that datasheet. I'm not sure, but it looks like those diodes will drop your voltage by 0.7V. There are other types that only drop the voltage by 0.2V. I'll have to order one and check. But since these diodes seem to be designed for 120V/220V, they probably don't care about a "measly" 0.7V which means I'll be out of luck. The 0.7V dropping diodes are silicon based, which probably makes them cheaper than whatever material they use for the 0.2V dropping ones (maybe germanium or something).
Last edited by ericgrau; 06-18-07 at 12:12 AM.
06-18-07, 12:01 AM
#30
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
According to this datasheet: http://www.diotec.com/pdf/1n1183a.pdf
they can handle 400A peak. I'd be wiring 2 in parallel to handle 70 amps all the time, which would mean they could handle 800A peak for cranking. With diodes and other semiconductors your main enemy is heat. You can pass quite a bit of current through a semiconductor as long as you don't do it so long that it overheats.
they can handle 400A peak. I'd be wiring 2 in parallel to handle 70 amps all the time, which would mean they could handle 800A peak for cranking. With diodes and other semiconductors your main enemy is heat. You can pass quite a bit of current through a semiconductor as long as you don't do it so long that it overheats.
06-18-07, 12:04 AM
#31
Will do.
I haven't looked at the RX-7's electrical schematic yet. Do you know off hand if I'll have any problem getting the current to flow from the battery to the system, from the alternator to the battery and yet prevent current from flowing from the system to the battery (i.e., battery attached backwards)? Oh well, I'll just have to check when I get around to building this.
I haven't looked at the RX-7's electrical schematic yet. Do you know off hand if I'll have any problem getting the current to flow from the battery to the system, from the alternator to the battery and yet prevent current from flowing from the system to the battery (i.e., battery attached backwards)? Oh well, I'll just have to check when I get around to building this.
Last edited by ericgrau; 06-18-07 at 12:13 AM.
06-18-07, 12:24 AM
#32
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
yeah, the alt peak output is 70 or 80 amps (depending on series), Then you have all the other circuits.
Then toss in that the PDF on the diode shows about a .8 volt drop, so now your input to the battery is about a volt low (forcing the alt to run at 15+ volts, leading to over volts to the rest of the electronics in the car. ( I see you figured that out in your edit).
So where are you thinking you are putting the diode? On the battery leads??? That won't work because you need by-directional voltage at the battery so you can charge it as well as it can discharge to start the car and run the electronics while the engine is not running.
And if you just put it on the alt output, then you don't have any solution for the ECU and CPU (and you have the voltage drop issue again).
Then toss in that the PDF on the diode shows about a .8 volt drop, so now your input to the battery is about a volt low (forcing the alt to run at 15+ volts, leading to over volts to the rest of the electronics in the car. ( I see you figured that out in your edit).
So where are you thinking you are putting the diode? On the battery leads??? That won't work because you need by-directional voltage at the battery so you can charge it as well as it can discharge to start the car and run the electronics while the engine is not running.
And if you just put it on the alt output, then you don't have any solution for the ECU and CPU (and you have the voltage drop issue again).
Last edited by Icemark; 06-18-07 at 11:47 AM.
06-18-07, 12:30 AM
#33
Full Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mo
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congrad's i think this is a 1 in a 1000 ordeal!!! I think the hydrogen gas and the some times, small spark when u hook it up the right way did it. In the future after charging i would let it air out a bit before u hook it up, some times u can even smell the gas after charging , also when jumping or charging with the battery in the car u should ground the charger/jumper cables away from the battery (less chance to ignite the gas as the spark will be further away) like at the block or other ground points.Some of the newer cars even have jumper points away from the battery further down the positive or negative cable! At least u are ok and got a new battery to boot out of the ordeal!
06-18-07, 01:30 PM
#35
Full Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: South Central
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im with 2713ddddavid on this one , blew a battery in a malibu caprice classic trying to get it started & YES it does sound like a Shotgun blast ......bcuz everyone in that car ducked when that sh*t blew !! Kaaaaboooom
06-18-07, 04:02 PM
#36
yeah, the alt peak output is 70 or 80 amps (depending on series), Then you have all the other circuits.
Then toss in that the PDF on the diode shows about a .8 volt drop, so now your input to the battery is about a volt low (forcing the alt to run at 15+ volts, leading to over volts to the rest of the electronics in the car. ( I see you figured that out in your edit).
So where are you thinking you are putting the diode? On the battery leads??? That won't work because you need by-directional voltage at the battery so you can charge it as well as it can discharge to start the car and run the electronics while the engine is not running.
And if you just put it on the alt output, then you don't have any solution for the ECU and CPU (and you have the voltage drop issue again).
Then toss in that the PDF on the diode shows about a .8 volt drop, so now your input to the battery is about a volt low (forcing the alt to run at 15+ volts, leading to over volts to the rest of the electronics in the car. ( I see you figured that out in your edit).
So where are you thinking you are putting the diode? On the battery leads??? That won't work because you need by-directional voltage at the battery so you can charge it as well as it can discharge to start the car and run the electronics while the engine is not running.
And if you just put it on the alt output, then you don't have any solution for the ECU and CPU (and you have the voltage drop issue again).
But yeah, that ~0.8V drop is a pain. I'd have to search for a supplier with the other kind of diodes which only have an ~0.2V drop. allelectronics.com has some, but they can only handle 3A.
Btw, in theory silicon diodes are supposed to drop 0.7V, but that graph indicates 0.75V or so. Dunno where that tiny bit of extra comes from <shrug>.
EDIT: wait a second... that'd still short out the alternator anyway if the battery was backwards. Oh well, it was just a thought. If I think of a solution I'll post it. Maybe a >>70A fuse for the alternator (e.g., a 150A fuse). This is why I need to take a good look at the electrical schematic, do some testing, etc.
Last edited by ericgrau; 06-18-07 at 04:18 PM.
06-18-07, 08:16 PM
#37
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When installing a battery you always, always connect the positive terminal first then the negative.
06-18-07, 10:28 PM
#38
The negative terminal is connected to the chasis. If you put your wrench on the positive terminal while the negative terminal is still connected, you might accidentally short the battery. Other than safety, it doesn't matter.
I just noticed a simpler solution than all those diodes and fuses. A previous owner of my car did it to my car. He cleaned up all the wiring really good, bundled it, wrapped in electrical tape, etc. While doing so, he wrapped the negative and positve battery terminals together, leaving one shorter than the other. So it's obvious which one goes in the front and which one goes in the back. I don't know if the one in the back will even reach all the way to the front.
I just noticed a simpler solution than all those diodes and fuses. A previous owner of my car did it to my car. He cleaned up all the wiring really good, bundled it, wrapped in electrical tape, etc. While doing so, he wrapped the negative and positve battery terminals together, leaving one shorter than the other. So it's obvious which one goes in the front and which one goes in the back. I don't know if the one in the back will even reach all the way to the front.
06-19-07, 12:06 AM
#40
Optimas are not dry cell batteries...they are "sealed and spillproof" (their description) but there is still battery acid involved.
I'm not sure how an Optima would react to a misconnection (as apparently happened to the OP) and I'm not willing to sacrifice mine for the team but I sure wouldn't count on it not doing something nasty just because of it's housing design.
I'm not sure how an Optima would react to a misconnection (as apparently happened to the OP) and I'm not willing to sacrifice mine for the team but I sure wouldn't count on it not doing something nasty just because of it's housing design.
huh? you rang? acid is a dangerous thing..you know when i think about it, i would rather have a fan and fan clutch fly at me then..have a batt. blow up in my face..by the way i hope your ok..
:AA:
06-25-07, 10:03 PM
#43
Full Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Scotts Valley
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry brother but YOU are wrong.
When installing a battery you always, always connect the positive terminal first then the negative. This is the same sequence for connecting jumper cables. Making the connections in this order greatly reduces the chance of a spark. Lead acid batteries produce hydrogen gas. In the correct mixture hydrogen:oxygen+spark=boom.
Regardless the chance of this happening is rather remote. I have personally had one blow just by the act of turning the key to engage the starter...sounded like a shotgun blast and scared the **** out of me.
A reasonable theory is the dumb asses at Twilight Zone failed to be certain the battery was full of water before they charged it. If it was low and put on the rapid charging system they use it boiled it down even lower. That air gap combined with a cell that has a short most likely caused the spark that left your ears ringing. You are lucky you did not get a face full of acid as well.
When installing a battery you always, always connect the positive terminal first then the negative. This is the same sequence for connecting jumper cables. Making the connections in this order greatly reduces the chance of a spark. Lead acid batteries produce hydrogen gas. In the correct mixture hydrogen:oxygen+spark=boom.
Regardless the chance of this happening is rather remote. I have personally had one blow just by the act of turning the key to engage the starter...sounded like a shotgun blast and scared the **** out of me.
A reasonable theory is the dumb asses at Twilight Zone failed to be certain the battery was full of water before they charged it. If it was low and put on the rapid charging system they use it boiled it down even lower. That air gap combined with a cell that has a short most likely caused the spark that left your ears ringing. You are lucky you did not get a face full of acid as well.
06-26-07, 02:02 AM
#45
No money. No love.
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SACRAMENTO
Posts: 2,807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did it on some ladys jeep....some ******* who sold it to her used red negative and black positive and when I tried hookin it up there was a big spark and it blew one fuse..I didn't get the boom battery effect
06-26-07, 02:13 PM
#46
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: oak lawn
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you probly have a short to ground, a really big one so ild find that. and its not from putting the battery on backwards cuz if you did that then it just wouldnt start. and putting the terminals on the wrong order doesnt mean anything thats just so you dont zap ur self. only other way is if it was over charged but then it should have blown up on who ever was charging it. ild check for a short.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
meximan
Suspension/Wheels/Tires/Brakes
8
09-25-15 01:39 AM
The1Sun
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
7
09-18-15 07:13 PM
