Mobile 1 Syntec
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
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From: Rohnert Park CA
Originally posted by NoPistns
Reading from Page D3 of the 1991Mazda RX& workshop manual: Mazda recommends using 10w30 when the ambient temperatures are between -25 F and +125 F. They offer 5W30 for ambient temps that do not exceed 32F.
The 1991 Mazda Owners manual P 6-33 says the following about oil. API Service SG Energy Conserving II (ECII) (Mineral oil only).
The Mazda Tech's I've spoken with all say to use regular (non synthetic) motor oil. The issue seems to be with the way synthetic burns.
As long as you do your maintenance on a regular basis and change filter and oil at the recommended intervals or sooner, you shouldn't have a problem with the engine lasting.
Reading from Page D3 of the 1991Mazda RX& workshop manual: Mazda recommends using 10w30 when the ambient temperatures are between -25 F and +125 F. They offer 5W30 for ambient temps that do not exceed 32F.
The 1991 Mazda Owners manual P 6-33 says the following about oil. API Service SG Energy Conserving II (ECII) (Mineral oil only).
The Mazda Tech's I've spoken with all say to use regular (non synthetic) motor oil. The issue seems to be with the way synthetic burns.
As long as you do your maintenance on a regular basis and change filter and oil at the recommended intervals or sooner, you shouldn't have a problem with the engine lasting.
There will be added engine life using the 20W50 in temps above 20F, as recommended in all other years, instead of the 10W30 found only in the 91 model year manuals.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
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From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
I don't see how synth would burn much different than petroleum. Combustion chamber temps are much higher than the flash point (vaporization) of every oil I've ever seen. Actually I bet synth would leave less contaminants behind after being burned because petroleum has a lot of chemical addititives added to change it into a motor oil, but synthetics don't have those extra additives, they are more pure.
Last edited by MaYnard5000; Aug 15, 2003 at 11:34 PM.
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally posted by Carl Byck
Evil, in answer to your question, GTX will coke(turn to tar) roughly 100 degrees before Mobile1. If you do a search on the net using a weak search engine like MSN, you will get 100-125 websites recomending, and documenting the aedvantages of synthetics in turbocharged applications. If you use a better search engine , you'll get enough reading material for a lifetime. FWIW, Garrett, Proturbo, TEC, and Inoovative all recommend full synthetics for maximum bearing life. I think you know all this, but if not the information is out there for your entertainment. Nothing wrong with Castrol GTX, I ran it in my TII for years. When my stock turbo died, I sent it to turbonetics for the hybrid upgrade. At that time the failure was attributed to lack of oil flow to the bearing due to coking on, and around the bearing.
Later, Carl
Evil, in answer to your question, GTX will coke(turn to tar) roughly 100 degrees before Mobile1. If you do a search on the net using a weak search engine like MSN, you will get 100-125 websites recomending, and documenting the aedvantages of synthetics in turbocharged applications. If you use a better search engine , you'll get enough reading material for a lifetime. FWIW, Garrett, Proturbo, TEC, and Inoovative all recommend full synthetics for maximum bearing life. I think you know all this, but if not the information is out there for your entertainment. Nothing wrong with Castrol GTX, I ran it in my TII for years. When my stock turbo died, I sent it to turbonetics for the hybrid upgrade. At that time the failure was attributed to lack of oil flow to the bearing due to coking on, and around the bearing.
Later, Carl
Yes, synthetic oil is better for abused engines, which is why racers like it. However, if you are concerned about turbo bearing coking, just change the oil regularly, don't over-boost or over-rev the turbo, and stay off boost for 30 seconds to 2 minutes before shutting off the engine.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 596
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From: Indy In.
I have always wondered about using synthetics in my old RX-7 T2's but the previous owners were using dyno, so I stayed with it.
But this current 87 T2 of mine had the X owner had been using Mobil 1 and it does seem to burn very clean, as I check the exhaust at the muffler often and I agree its better (IMHO) for a super hot Turbo application.
But this current 87 T2 of mine had the X owner had been using Mobil 1 and it does seem to burn very clean, as I check the exhaust at the muffler often and I agree its better (IMHO) for a super hot Turbo application.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
Originally posted by Evil Aviator
Synthetic oil is superior to petroleum oil, but that doesn't mean that it is worth the money. I could sell some special Evil Oil for $10,000/qt and offer a complete engine and turbo lifetime warranty. Who wants some?
Yes, synthetic oil is better for abused engines, which is why racers like it. However, if you are concerned about turbo bearing coking, just change the oil regularly, don't over-boost or over-rev the turbo, and stay off boost for 30 seconds to 2 minutes before shutting off the engine.
Synthetic oil is superior to petroleum oil, but that doesn't mean that it is worth the money. I could sell some special Evil Oil for $10,000/qt and offer a complete engine and turbo lifetime warranty. Who wants some?
Yes, synthetic oil is better for abused engines, which is why racers like it. However, if you are concerned about turbo bearing coking, just change the oil regularly, don't over-boost or over-rev the turbo, and stay off boost for 30 seconds to 2 minutes before shutting off the engine.
$5.85 a qt 10w30 x 6qts for a TII = $35.10
$1.89 a qt 10w30 castrol gtx x 6qts = $11.34
Ok, so its cheaper in the beginning, but....
25,000 mile oil drain interval for amsoil
3,000 mile oil drain interval for castrol gtx
by the time you change the amsoil once you will have changed the castrol 8 times... you just spent $50 more for a non-synth product that doesn't protect your engine as well as the synthetic.
Originally posted by maynard5000
But with synthetics you can go longer without changing the oil, so you will actually save money by using synthetics. Say you use Amsoil synth for example:
$5.85 a qt 10w30 x 6qts for a TII = $35.10
$1.89 a qt 10w30 castrol gtx x 6qts = $11.34
Ok, so its cheaper in the beginning, but....
25,000 mile oil drain interval for amsoil
3,000 mile oil drain interval for castrol gtx
by the time you change the amsoil once you will have changed the castrol 8 times... you just spent $50 more for a non-synth product that doesn't protect your engine as well as the synthetic.
But with synthetics you can go longer without changing the oil, so you will actually save money by using synthetics. Say you use Amsoil synth for example:
$5.85 a qt 10w30 x 6qts for a TII = $35.10
$1.89 a qt 10w30 castrol gtx x 6qts = $11.34
Ok, so its cheaper in the beginning, but....
25,000 mile oil drain interval for amsoil
3,000 mile oil drain interval for castrol gtx
by the time you change the amsoil once you will have changed the castrol 8 times... you just spent $50 more for a non-synth product that doesn't protect your engine as well as the synthetic.
First of all the MOP would have sucked that stuff dry in half the time so NO amsoil would be left in there blowing your engine.
Second I don't trust anything to last more than 3k miles. I don't really care about what lasts longer who gives a rats poop. I use mobile one and I change it every 2k miles and I pre-mix with no MOP.
Santiago
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
Well you would of course keep an eye on your oil level during that time and make sure to top it off. Even in doing that it would end up being the same price or cheaper. And ripping out the MOP and going premix and using synth would probably be the best option.
That works too!
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
I use mobile one and I change it every 2k miles and I pre-mix with no MOP.
I use mobile one and I change it every 2k miles and I pre-mix with no MOP.
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
Originally posted by maynard5000
But with synthetics you can go longer without changing the oil, so you will actually save money by using synthetics. Say you use Amsoil synth for example:
$5.85 a qt 10w30 x 6qts for a TII = $35.10
$1.89 a qt 10w30 castrol gtx x 6qts = $11.34
Ok, so its cheaper in the beginning, but....
25,000 mile oil drain interval for amsoil
3,000 mile oil drain interval for castrol gtx
by the time you change the amsoil once you will have changed the castrol 8 times... you just spent $50 more for a non-synth product that doesn't protect your engine as well as the synthetic.
But with synthetics you can go longer without changing the oil, so you will actually save money by using synthetics. Say you use Amsoil synth for example:
$5.85 a qt 10w30 x 6qts for a TII = $35.10
$1.89 a qt 10w30 castrol gtx x 6qts = $11.34
Ok, so its cheaper in the beginning, but....
25,000 mile oil drain interval for amsoil
3,000 mile oil drain interval for castrol gtx
by the time you change the amsoil once you will have changed the castrol 8 times... you just spent $50 more for a non-synth product that doesn't protect your engine as well as the synthetic.
You can not use any oil synth or conventional in a rotary more than 8k miles... 25k would be just asking for problems. Even in a piston engine a 25K oil change, the acid level would be radically high. A 25K oil change that some synths claim, is only possible if there was zero blow by (which is un-heard of) and very few cold weather starts.
I generally recommend 3k oil changes on turbos, and 5k oil changes on N/A's regardless of oil type, and of course you must change the oil after each engine flood.
So the 25K oil change is a lie.
Originally posted by Icemark
No, the best of all worlds would be a working OMP, a in-expensive, but good quality synth (which the quality requirment alone rules out any synth other than redline/amsoil/royal purple/neo/ and Mobil1) and using a emissions friendly two stroke oil in the fuel system for high performance applications.
No, the best of all worlds would be a working OMP, a in-expensive, but good quality synth (which the quality requirment alone rules out any synth other than redline/amsoil/royal purple/neo/ and Mobil1) and using a emissions friendly two stroke oil in the fuel system for high performance applications.
FWIW, I switched to Mobil 1 (what I run in all my other cars), and haven't had a hiccup in the RX. Actually picked up a couple PSI of oil pressure, though that is more likely due to a slight change in oil weight.
Furthermore-
I use mobile one right.......
It costs 1.29 a quart X 5 I don't use 6 QT I don't know why you all do.
Mobile One*5= 6.45 Ok lets devide 25k miles into 8 changes thats 40 QTs. 40QT's= $51.60.
Amsoil you quoted it at 5.85 a QT times 5 not 6= 29.95 but since your just leaving it in there you need to top it off every 3k miles?? One QT for example if you don't drive too hard. that is going to be 8 top offs before the oil chage right? ok so 8 more QT's at the same price= $46.80.
Lets see our totals here:
Mobile One Total cost for oil- $51.60 for 8 changes
Amsoil Total cost for 25k miles and top off's- $76.75
Need I say more?
Santiago
PS- Regular oil filter changes are assumed with amsoil as they are NOT going to last 25k miles.
I use mobile one right.......
It costs 1.29 a quart X 5 I don't use 6 QT I don't know why you all do.
Mobile One*5= 6.45 Ok lets devide 25k miles into 8 changes thats 40 QTs. 40QT's= $51.60.
Amsoil you quoted it at 5.85 a QT times 5 not 6= 29.95 but since your just leaving it in there you need to top it off every 3k miles?? One QT for example if you don't drive too hard.
that is going to be 8 top offs before the oil chage right? ok so 8 more QT's at the same price= $46.80. Lets see our totals here:
Mobile One Total cost for oil- $51.60 for 8 changes
Amsoil Total cost for 25k miles and top off's- $76.75
Need I say more?
Santiago
PS- Regular oil filter changes are assumed with amsoil as they are NOT going to last 25k miles.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
It really doesn't make any sense at all that these oil companies would lie and recommend highly extended oil change intervals over what they really knew the oil could handle. Why would they lie in order to LOSE money?
http://amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm
http://amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.htm
http://amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm
http://amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.htm
Originally posted by maynard5000
It really doesn't make any sense at all that these oil companies would lie and recommend highly extended oil change intervals over what they really knew the oil could handle. Why would they lie in order to LOSE money?
http://amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm
http://amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.htm
It really doesn't make any sense at all that these oil companies would lie and recommend highly extended oil change intervals over what they really knew the oil could handle. Why would they lie in order to LOSE money?
http://amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm
http://amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.htm
TEST PROCEDURE
Testing is conducted with a 1996 model Buick 3800 Series II, water-cooled, four-cycle, V-6 engine.
Testing is conducted with a 1996 model Buick 3800 Series II, water-cooled, four-cycle, V-6 engine.
Besides Mark knows just about everything.
Don't disobey the IceMark
Santiago
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
Furthermore-
I use mobile one right.......
It costs 1.29 a quart X 5 I don't use 6 QT I don't know why you all do.
Mobile One*5= 6.45 Ok lets devide 25k miles into 8 changes thats 40 QTs. 40QT's= $51.60.
Amsoil you quoted it at 5.85 a QT times 5 not 6= 29.95 but since your just leaving it in there you need to top it off every 3k miles?? One QT for example if you don't drive too hard. that is going to be 8 top offs before the oil chage right? ok so 8 more QT's at the same price= $46.80.
Lets see our totals here:
Mobile One Total cost for oil- $51.60 for 8 changes
Amsoil Total cost for 25k miles and top off's- $76.75
Need I say more?
Santiago
PS- Regular oil filter changes are assumed with amsoil as they are NOT going to last 25k miles.
Furthermore-
I use mobile one right.......
It costs 1.29 a quart X 5 I don't use 6 QT I don't know why you all do.
Mobile One*5= 6.45 Ok lets devide 25k miles into 8 changes thats 40 QTs. 40QT's= $51.60.
Amsoil you quoted it at 5.85 a QT times 5 not 6= 29.95 but since your just leaving it in there you need to top it off every 3k miles?? One QT for example if you don't drive too hard.
that is going to be 8 top offs before the oil chage right? ok so 8 more QT's at the same price= $46.80. Lets see our totals here:
Mobile One Total cost for oil- $51.60 for 8 changes
Amsoil Total cost for 25k miles and top off's- $76.75
Need I say more?
Santiago
PS- Regular oil filter changes are assumed with amsoil as they are NOT going to last 25k miles.
and when you said mobil 1 I assumed you meant synthetic... so in that case.. shame on you your killing your engine!
yes good job mentioning that regular (3k miles or less) oil filter changes are still mandatory no matter what oil you use.
Originally posted by Icemark
Using a synth in a rotary, you will still have the same 3K-55k mileage change that a conventional oil would have.
You can not use any oil synth or conventional in a rotary more than 8k miles... 25k would be just asking for problems. Even in a piston engine a 25K oil change, the acid level would be radically high. A 25K oil change that some synths claim, is only possible if there was zero blow by (which is un-heard of) and very few cold weather starts.
I generally recommend 3k oil changes on turbos, and 5k oil changes on N/A's regardless of oil type, and of course you must change the oil after each engine flood.
So the 25K oil change is a lie.
Using a synth in a rotary, you will still have the same 3K-55k mileage change that a conventional oil would have.
You can not use any oil synth or conventional in a rotary more than 8k miles... 25k would be just asking for problems. Even in a piston engine a 25K oil change, the acid level would be radically high. A 25K oil change that some synths claim, is only possible if there was zero blow by (which is un-heard of) and very few cold weather starts.
I generally recommend 3k oil changes on turbos, and 5k oil changes on N/A's regardless of oil type, and of course you must change the oil after each engine flood.
So the 25K oil change is a lie.
^^^^^^^
The Markster OWNZ j00!
Whats wrong with regular mobile one? I have been using it since I got the damned car. She never smokes and the oil comes out very nice not too much dirtier than the new stuff.
Given what Icemark said above you shouldn't run any oil more than 8k. I don't feel that mark would lie to us since he has nothing to gain from this. Therefore you would have to do three oil changes adding to my above numbers yet additional QT's of oil adding greatly to the cost of your presious synthetic.
Santiago
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
What wrong with regular M1... its not synthetic! hehe
I don't think Amsoil would lie either, considering they DO have lots and lots of money to lose by recommending 25,000 mile oil changes.
heheI don't think Amsoil would lie either, considering they DO have lots and lots of money to lose by recommending 25,000 mile oil changes.
Old School Rotors
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Leaving oil in for 25k miles is crazy. I don't care what kind of tests are done byt he oil companies. Does anyone remember when ProLong came out, those commercials with the engine running on no oil, no oil pan, dirt in the oil galley, with a firehose being shot at the exposed rotating assembly?
Yeah, I wouldn't try and duplicate that stunt either despite its apparent success. So why would an oil company pull such a stunt? Well, because they want to show just how great the oil is supposed to be so you will buy it. Nobody except for a total moron is actually going to neglect their oil changes that badly.
When it comes to oil, I chose safe over sorry every single time.
Yeah, I wouldn't try and duplicate that stunt either despite its apparent success. So why would an oil company pull such a stunt? Well, because they want to show just how great the oil is supposed to be so you will buy it. Nobody except for a total moron is actually going to neglect their oil changes that badly.
When it comes to oil, I chose safe over sorry every single time.
maynard5000- Oh and I forgot the shipping for Amsoil. For 15 QT's which was the original numbers I made out its almost 10 dollars. If you leave it in there for 25k miles.
Bringing the total to almost 90 dollars.
Santiago
Bringing the total to almost 90 dollars.
Santiago
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: 195 Miles West of Bridgeport, WA
There doesn't have to be shipping for amsoil, there are shops that sell it.
Once again, if you compare the prices when you are PREMIXING then using amsoil at an extended drain interval is cheaper than using petroleum at 3k intervals. If you aren't premixing, then petroleum will be cheaper.
Once again, if you compare the prices when you are PREMIXING then using amsoil at an extended drain interval is cheaper than using petroleum at 3k intervals. If you aren't premixing, then petroleum will be cheaper.
You people concerned about oils should just CHANGE YOUR OILS AT PROPER INTERVALS. All these myths about certain oils causing carbon lock and coking of turbo bearings are all bull ****. Oil is Oil. Use the proper viscosity where you live and change it regularly. Some people who never or even thinks oil lasts forever shouldn't be allowed to drive. Oil viscosity breaks down over a period of time and that's the reason why oil change is so important to keep internals protected. If your oil is like mud, imagine what happens when it's injected into the combustion. Do you think that burns??
If you want to run synthetics do it. But even synthetics viscosity breaks down. So, don't wait until 25,000 miles to change it.
Again, people who haven't seen the internals of an engine using Amsoil, don't use it. I don't know why people praise the damn thing. I used my leftover 5 bottles 20W50 to kill ants in my yard.
The person who thought his car lagged somewhat after changing to a thicker oil needs to know that it is a thicker oil and therefore you need to warm up the car before driving it. A 10W30 has very high pour point compared to a 20W50.
I lost count how many times this regular vs synthetics comes up.
If you want to run synthetics do it. But even synthetics viscosity breaks down. So, don't wait until 25,000 miles to change it.
Again, people who haven't seen the internals of an engine using Amsoil, don't use it. I don't know why people praise the damn thing. I used my leftover 5 bottles 20W50 to kill ants in my yard.
The person who thought his car lagged somewhat after changing to a thicker oil needs to know that it is a thicker oil and therefore you need to warm up the car before driving it. A 10W30 has very high pour point compared to a 20W50.
I lost count how many times this regular vs synthetics comes up.
Originally posted by Icemark
Using a synth in a rotary, you will still have the same 3K-55k mileage change that a conventional oil would have.
You can not use any oil synth or conventional in a rotary more than 8k miles... 25k would be just asking for problems. Even in a piston engine a 25K oil change, the acid level would be radically high. A 25K oil change that some synths claim, is only possible if there was zero blow by (which is un-heard of) and very few cold weather starts.
I generally recommend 3k oil changes on turbos, and 5k oil changes on N/A's regardless of oil type, and of course you must change the oil after each engine flood.
So the 25K oil change is a lie.
Using a synth in a rotary, you will still have the same 3K-55k mileage change that a conventional oil would have.
You can not use any oil synth or conventional in a rotary more than 8k miles... 25k would be just asking for problems. Even in a piston engine a 25K oil change, the acid level would be radically high. A 25K oil change that some synths claim, is only possible if there was zero blow by (which is un-heard of) and very few cold weather starts.
I generally recommend 3k oil changes on turbos, and 5k oil changes on N/A's regardless of oil type, and of course you must change the oil after each engine flood.
So the 25K oil change is a lie.
I don't see what is the big deal about changing oil. If you can't do it, it's only about $19.95 at shops. It's not like it's going to put a HUGE dent in your piggy bank.
And depends on how often you drive, it's maybe .... 2-3 months to rack up 3k miles? Save your loose change when you go through the drive through. That should be enough after 2-3 months of drive throughs.
Originally posted by maynard5000
What wrong with regular M1... its not synthetic! hehe
I don't think Amsoil would lie either, considering they DO have lots and lots of money to lose by recommending 25,000 mile oil changes.
What wrong with regular M1... its not synthetic!
heheI don't think Amsoil would lie either, considering they DO have lots and lots of money to lose by recommending 25,000 mile oil changes.
win win situation baby
Santiago
