160 hp measured at the spark plugs...maybe.

I prefer "sensibly sedate" to "tired".

 

brake horse power is measured at the flywheel on an engine dyno, My last vehicle was 140bhp and it was definitely slower than my rx7 and it even weighed less.

 

Think so even if they could get customer cost down to what it was when mazda still made them? Housings were 300-500 dollar range now their typically 600-800.. for us FC owners that aren't rich that's a big difference in price, though I won't argue that we are mostly cheap and broke(I blame rotormotors lol) so in the end it might not find a place in the market and crash.

Still, I'd love for some millionaire to say **** it! And get them into production.

 

A couple of questions.
1. Has it been verified Mazda no longer makes them? All S5 and all but the turbo intermediate housing for the S4 is still available. Is this all old stock from the original runs or do they still do runs of them every so often? I'm guessing N.O.S.

2. Are there still enough FC's being rebuilt to sustain a business making housings for them? Even if they don't buy the equipment but have some one else actually make them the tooling costs they would have to re-coupe before they start to turn a profit would be quite high I imagine.

 

I think if someone did pursue such an endeavor, it would probably be more for the general aviation industry.

Even if mazda no longer makes housings the FD RX7 was around a very long time so I bet there is a shitz ton of housings for those in warehouse.

 

People will DD a gas guzzling piece of of **** forever.

I guess it really comes down to: Do you want to get a new gas guzzler with a say... five year loan and expensive insurance? Oh yeah, taxes too.

Then you need to have the bank the luxury/performance market pursues.

 

They put out that 100000 unit figure as a cop out. They know it'll never sell that many, so that's their way of saying "hell no"

 

That may be true, but even most of those luxury cars and pickups get better city fuel economy than the average FC.

 

It's funny but true. My moms old v8 toyota tundra was rated at 300hp and got a couple of extra miles per gallon than my FC in the city, but my FC did beat her truck by ONE mile per gallon on the highway.

Here is the hard truth...

The rotary engine has a lot of potential to make power with very little displacement compared to its piston brothers ( and this is assuming the 1.5 times displacement to make it comparable rule). The problem with the rotary is the squish stream on the trailing portion of the rotor and the very long combustion surface. It inherently can not burn all of the fuel in the combustion chamber by design. To fix this you would need to make the rotors less tall, add more rotors to make up for the displacement issue created by the former, then place 4 spark plugs per combustion chamber...

...But if you did that, you just made the engine incredibly complex and expensive. The reason piston engines are what power practically every vehicle on the road is because...

A) Lot's of R&D over the last 120 years
B) It's ******* cheap!

 

Check out Radbul.
There's a lot to see in the vid but of particular pertinence to this thread is the bit where Superbro is unloading a truckbed of Mazda boxes (comes right at the beginning). They contain irons and stuff for the four rotor build and he casually thanks Mazda for remanufacturing them for the team.
Wait, what?
Mazda made them new parts for the engine?

Seems weird.

 

Redbull has deep pockets.

 

1. Pretty sure they dont, maybe renesis stuff but im pretty sure even all fd parts are N.O.S. as well as s4 and s5. So with limited amounts price went up.

2. Probably not and if so barely, but more people might stay with a rotor motor if they were cheaper. Imo using their stuff would be best to much r n d cost otherwise.

 

Hope this is true




















All-new 'RX-9' rotary coupe to emerge 335kW turbo-hybrid range-extender – but not until 2020


Back in July we reported the latest rotary-powered RX-7 developments inside Mazda’s Hiroshima HQ and the fact the company has registered both the 'RX-7' and 'RX-9' names at the local patent office.

Since then various reports have further fuelled speculation that Mazda has not just one, but two rotary models in the pipeline.

As we've reported, it's suggested that Mazda is planning the reveal of an all-new RX-7 rotary coupe in 2017, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the debut of its first rotary model — the Cosmo Sports of 1967.

But there have also been rumours that Mazda will then launch a second rotary model – dubbed the RX-9 — in 2020 to celebrate Mazda’s 100th anniversary.

We can now confirm that Mazda does have two special projects on the table — one for 2017 and another for 2020 – but it appears they will both revolve around the same rotary model, the reveal and launch of which will be spread over a four-year period.

“We want to surprise everyone in 2017 with something special to celebrate the birth of rotary," a senior Mazda executive told us.

"Then, to celebrate the company’s 100th birthday, we want to take it to another level in 2020," he added, confirming separate celebrations for both anniversaries.

From what we're hearing, Mazda will not launch two rotary cars, but stagger the reveal of concept and production versions over four years – not unlike Nissan did with its latest GT-R — to highlight its rotary heritage and generate maximum anticipation for its long-awaited rebirth.

It plans to kickstart the rotary dream in 2017 with the unveiling of a next-generation rotary concept car, and then realise that dream in 2020 with the reveal, launch and production of a belated replacement for the iconic RX-7, which we think will be called RX-9.

We know for sure that Mazda is developing a rotary engine for an RX-7 successor and has been doing so for the past decade. One source says that a Ferrari 550-resembling prototype surfaced briefly in 2004 on an RX-8 chassis.

“But that soon disappeared and the RX-7 project was put on hold until around 2006 when pretty much all of the company’s sports car engineers and designers were channelled into development of the new MX-5.”

Now that work on the fourth-generation MX-5 is done, Mazda has reallocated its senior R&D staff to the 'RX-7' rotary coupe project, since the relatively small Japanese car-maker only has the resources to build one sports car at a time.

The rendering you see here is an artist’s impression of Mazda's born-again rotary coupe and incorporates the company’s new MX-5 design language as well as hints from our insider. And with Ferrari-esque styling cues up front and touches of BMW Z4 towards the rear flanks, we think it looks the business.

We've heard that a prototype based on a reinforced rear-drive MX-5 platform has been testing at a racetrack in northern Japan and its signature rotary exhaust note was unmistakable. A couple of months earlier, a turbocharged RX-8-based mule was also spied testing in Japan.

In a world of 370kW-plus sports cars, our source tells us that Mazda is targeting around 335kW for its RX-7 successor. “But to get there with a rotary engine is not easy,” he tells us.

With current rotary technology, the most power that a naturally aspirated engine can generate is around 225kW, says our source. “To get to the targeted 335kW, some significant extra devices are necessary.”

Rather than employ a revised version of the 1.3-litre 13B Renesis rotary from the discontinued RX-8, the new car will be powered by an all-new rotary already previewed by the larger, twin-rotor 16X concept engine.

But it will be assisted by the same range-extending technology seen in the Mazda2 plug-in hybrid concept last year, as well as a capacitor-powered e-turbocharger.

Our source has revealed Mazda engineers are working on a two-stage turbo system that incorporates an “electric turbo assist” function that engages at low rpm, and a standard exhaust-driven turbo that cuts in at higher revs.

“Engineers will employ a capacitor (a unit that stores power and discharges it on demand) to beef up the rotary’s ‘instability’ at low rpm, and when boost pressure rises, a standard turbocharger will engage to keep the flow of power coming,” said our contact.

This arrangement, we are told, more than solves the three main problems of the outgoing RX-8 rotary; namely poor fuel economy and emissions, excessive oil use and weak mid-range torque.

Even better, Mazda's new rotary engine will produce prodigious power in a lightweight coupe that will tip the scales at around 1280kg. In addition to employing the next MX-5's latest construction methods, engineers are also experimenting with “several carbon-fibre parts” to reduce weight and boost performance.

Image: Holiday Auto magazine

 

In a way the fabled 16X tries to correct a lot of this with a much narrower chamber and charge stratification. I'd suspect direct injection alone could go a LONG way to fixing the chamber issues. Charge stratification is a wonderful thing when it works. Mazda just needs to spend the considerable time figuring out direct injection parameters.

 

If they deploy direct injection in the manner they did so on the Mazdaspeed 3/6 platform they could REALLY shoot themselves in the foot. There are no aftermarket/swappable injectors versus other manufacturers that have used a more common injector. At around ~350-375 HP they run out of fuel and have to resort to trusting meth injection as the additional fuel to push further. I hope they dont make the same mistake..

Edit: Nevermind, if they do the primary/ secondary approach the secondaries could just be made larger like usual.

 

Light bulb just went off! My wife is asleep (she works the night shift for Dallas PD) and my daughter is taking a nap (she is a baby) so I have had the last 2 hours to drink beer and just live inside of my own head.

The wankel engine is cheaper to produce than a 4cyl engine and makes more power. We all know that Mazda tried to introduce the wankel into all of its vehicles in the 1970's but failed miserably due to the oil embargo.

Here is my light bulb thought...

If Mazda could get the whole direct injection stratified charge thing worked out, and say made the 16X engine available as the BASE model option (the wankel is cheaper to produce) on say the Mazda 3. This "might" be able to shy away some of the stigma that the rotary engine got in the 60's (unreliable junk) and the 70's (gas guzzling junk). We all know the 13b in our FC is pretty damn reliable, **** look at clocker, his engine has like 300,000 miles on it. Mazda screwed up with the FD and subsequently had issues with the RX8, but it's a lesson learned.

GM made some terrible engines in the 1980's, for example the 2.8l v6. They used a "half head" design so that the intake manifold and the head had a T junction gasket surface over part of the cylinder. What made this even worse was that the intake manifold was aluminum and the cylinder head was cast iron. Over time the difference in thermal expansion would break the intake manifold gasket and let coolant flood the cylinder and thus trashing the entire engine. What did GM do? They fixed the engineering flow for the 30.0/3.4 and subsequently the 3.6/3.8 engines. Those ***** are everywhere now.

Ford, same deal. The single gear oil pumps they started using in the 80's where flawed and subsequently came under recall and where replacing engines left and right. The fixed it.

My point is, Mazda did a **** ton of R@D on the wankel and they shouldn't abandon it. I think at this point they have done a great deal of refinement that the engine can now be a reliable passenger car powerplant, and the old fogies of the day have probably forgot about the 60's and 70's at this point. They need to offer it in a regular passenger car at a lower horepower (lower stress/higher gas mileage powerplant) and save the extreme stuff for a sports car.

 

I'm hoping they maybe couple rotary power with a hybrid drive train to get electric motor torque and rotary torque which if blended properly would resolve the mileage issues. big rotary torque at high rpms for performance and electric motor torque for more high mileage sedate driving. think its in there somewhere..or so I think....

 

Let's hope they come back with another rotary vehicle!