charge

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

im going BNR Stage 3 in the next months, and i was wondering how much HP my stock TMIC will support.. im planing to run 15-16 psi (compressor housing is a t04)

Im not a fan of big *** fmic, because i want my response as good as possible, and dont want to block my watercooler.

FCKing1995

iTrader: (3)

Id imagine a Stage3 and 15psi would be pushing it... It might handle it physicly, but youll probably have high charge temps and the flow will be poor. Of course I have no first hand experiance with this, but its just guessing

asianman831

your stock top mount wont be able to handle that PSI range. plus the hot pipe and cold pipe would have to be way bigger then the stock silicone houses to handle that range. if you wanna keep the top mount, go look for the ARC top mount. its good for 350HP. its really hard to find that top mount but talk to rishie on the forums. i emailed mackinindustries about that top mount and they said autornd and get it. and yes,rishie is the owner of AutoRnD

speed_monkey

BDC did 500hp at 26psi on the stock top mount, he is spraying meth though. :p

nik

Thats totally wrong^

I've run my T66 half bridge FC with stock TMIC for a while at 11-12 psi. Intake temps skyrocket as soon as you start to boost. I was using quite retarded ignition, and no problems so far.

When the weather got cooler I ran up to 17 psi with meth mixed in to the gas, this worked nicely, but clearly shows the TMIC being quickly overwhelmed, after a full throttle run through the gears temps are into the 68C range (150F). Thats with outside temps around 10C.

charge

iTrader: (1)

damn! i guess it wouldn't be the best choice to run stock TMIC at 350whp on the track

gxlbiscuit

been there done that if you like 212 degree intake temps be my guest:-) do you know what machine gun detonation sounds like ? You will i went drifting one day with about ooh 14 lbs that wasnt even steady that was just a peak at 6000rpm. Figure i was about 12lbs steady. yeah umm i found a old school greddy front mount night and day difference. short story my first day in the cold with front mount i was seeing 17-18lbs of boost just from the cold outside i set my controller to 14. yeah on the highway and drag yah you can do it but its not healthy at all. also get an rtek ecu to retard timing if you are stock. 15-16 lbs im ging to have to pull the impossible card on. its energy wasted it will run but it could be a WHOOOOLE lot better. I too HATE big front mounts and i didnt want to get a front mount but for 400 bucks with tubing i couldnt *** it up. but in doing that i had to put a ford taurus fan on cuz ntohing else could keep the koyo cool. and because of that i have to get a bigger alt im an s4. welcome to the world of modding cars yay!

nik

The best solution if you want to track the car is a V mount setup. The top mount will work but to keep things alive you will lose power.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

Water injection. Less hastle, much more effective, and dosnt adversly affect the oil cooler and radiator.

papiogxl

iTrader: (6)

You could convert the stock ic to a water to air ic, BDC did this the cheap way, but it should be able to be done properly for around the same price as an FMIC.

jdmsuper7

iTrader: (1)

If you are serious about the ARC, PM me, I'm gonna have a used one for sale very very soon

charge

iTrader: (1)

does it need modification? and what condition is it? since i expect MINT condition only.. no dents or something like that..

jdmsuper7

iTrader: (1)

Unless you dig one up with the TB elbow (rare), its gonna need modification. I had mine modified to accept a Greddy elbow. Its not MINT, but its in pretty decent shape for a used IC. Also, no offense, but do you know how much new ones go for? Used is a much better option, unless you have a pure show car.

Also, be ready to ice it down between auto-x or drag runs, heat soak is a bitch

asianman831

im not the smartest person but then again he wants to run over 1 bar....im not saying the top mount is the crappiest intercooler but it can only handle a certain amount of power and goin over the limint isnt the best.

gxlbiscuit

dude dont bother with an arc top mount see if you can get an old greddy unit cut one hole in your car and be done. a top mount BBQ grill is still a BBQ grill

Boost Lee

iTrader: (3)

The stock top mount is good for an infinite amount of power....once. If you want consistent power during a track day, you'll probably need to change out your IC after 250hp especially if its really warm in the summer.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

he did ~440WHP @ 24.7PSI before it popped(the motor not the TMIC).

meth cools the intake charge so its hard to say if a stage 3 at 16PSI with the stock TMIC is safe, my vote would be not and also the stock top mount is going to hold the numbers back because it is a bottleneck.

FrankV702

iTrader: (14)

Why would you spend all the money on fixing your car up. Then go cheap on the intercooler? You can put a FMIC kit together for less then 400. Its like saying your going to open the engine to port it.. but your going to only port the side housing and not the exhaust ports. ??

jdmsuper7

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, I only got my ARC since my jdm core didn't come with a stock top mount. $400 for a front mount that is actually efficient and last more than 1 auto-x run without being iced down is a good deal. Most of the ARC/HKS/RE-A replacement top mounts are in the $250+ (used!) neighborhood on ebay, and almost none of them come with the TB elbow that is usually needed to mount them.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

don't ask me why BDC chose to try and push the TMIC, i figure he just wanted to gloat/impress people but in the end it cost him his motor. i was rather surprised to see it held up to that HP level though but still, no point in pushing a system you know cannot handle several hard consecutive runs.

speed_monkey

I though it popped because he accidentally messed up the timing?
IIRC his intake temps were rather low due to the meth injection.. so how did the top mount cause the death of his motor?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i didn't say it was the top mount that caused it but probably was a contributor. as for the intake temps they weren't sky high but nor were they low, running pump fuel isn't like running race fuel so you will eventually hit an octane level knock barrier at a lower point than with race fuel. once you push enough boost irregardless of what your intake temps are the mixture will detonate since it is compressed so much in combination with engine internal temps.

unless he advanced the timing several degrees where he was already pushing the timing limits i don't see that as being what caused this. also the real indicator that it was an octane/detonation issue is the cracked iron while the apex seals remained intact, that is what generally happens when you detonate vs pre-ignition(timing too far advanced) where the apex seals are destroyed.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

Many reasons:

Front mounts on these cars reduce overall cooling effectivness significantly. Not massivly but significantly. its like putting a big filter in front of your radiator and oil cooler. In the rotory world reducing cooling capacity = death. I would not want to do a 30 min track session in 100°F ambient with a big old IC in front of even an upgraded radiator. Sure you can remove the AC condenser but then you have no AC for the street, and and a FMIC still has more pressure drop than an AC condenser.

FMIC piping and core placement often requires removal of the power steering or AC or both. OR, you end up with a piping arangment that is packed in there and limits access to other components, not my idea of a good solution.

Water and Alcohol injection are significantly more effective in preventing detonation than straight intercooling. I dont care how big your IC is. Sure it is a more technically complex solution, which is too much for some, but that dosnt make IC the supreme solution becuase it is a simpiler concept.

I look at it like this, in constant motion of 40mph or better, with water injection a TMIC is a far superior solution on these cars (as long as you still have the heat shield on the bottom of it). Its more effective at preventing detonation and with the TMIC works very well with constant flow through the hood scoop at cooling the air charge.

Now an argument can certainly be made for the merits of a FMIC in these cars for drag racing, because you do one wide open pass where you want cool air charge not just to prevent detonation but provide more O2 per CFM of air and you dont want your IC heat soaked from sitting in line waiting for your pass. Plus you have lots of time to let the car cool between runs. You simply dont need a car that must handle sustained hard driving and maintain steady state hard driving cooling. But you do need a car with imediat power, that is not dogged from a heat soaked IC.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i still don't know why anyone would consider alcohol injection a more complex solution, it is simple to install and comprehend the basics of how it works, it is cheaper than a FMIC and does a better job at cooling the air charge than a FMIC would(debatable) and as well raises the knock level of the fuel for added boost and timing increase for more power. the only downside is it requires tuning where a FMIC is a direct swap with no tuning needed but any real gains always come from major adjustments ie. tuning. it took me about 4 hours to install the auxiliary injection, 6 hours to install my in bay FMIC and it takes about 8 to fab up and install a full front mount.

running costs for alcohol injection vary though and is the other variable of cost. methanol usually costs about $3 a gallon but can be found as low as less than $1 per gallon. generally i push my car several times a day and use .25 gallons of methanol to a full tank of fuel but running at the track would increase that number exponentially as well as more hard driving on the streets would up it but running costs are low. that figure was based on my 50% methanol/50% distilled water mixture by the way, i still see no true benefit to running 100% methanol as a supplemental fuel for knock suppression- if you want to run straight methanol then just put it in the fuel tank.... i still am convinced the knock levels can be raised from what BDC hit with 100% methanol AI and still retain the benefits of a combustible fuel source such as the methanol provides.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

I know it's not but you have to consider some of your audience. Some car guys are smart, and some arent. Dosen't matter what kind of car/truck it is. There are some real yahoos in the 4wd rock crawling world.