Josh's Build Thread
07-27-11, 04:45 PM
#26
Wow, its like I put together a build kit to replicate my car and you are building it. So far the only difference seems to be the wheels. Subscribed!
About the flooding issue, the stock fpr is only suitable for the stock fuel pump. Additionally the stock cranking map is STUPID rich, when I got my rtek I took the cranking map down at least 40% except in the hottest and coldest conditions.
About the flooding issue, the stock fpr is only suitable for the stock fuel pump. Additionally the stock cranking map is STUPID rich, when I got my rtek I took the cranking map down at least 40% except in the hottest and coldest conditions.
07-28-11, 07:58 AM
#27
Everything I've been reading has said the OEM FPR can take a Walbro 255 as well as the FD fuel pump and the Q7 pump isn't flowing much more than that.
Something else is going on with the fueling now.
I got the exhaust leak completely eliminated finally. It sounds a lot nicer in the cabin while driving now.
After I fixed that I took her out for a spin and it seems that when the secondaries should be kicking in, it falls on it's face. So basically high revs with any boost and it loses power...still runs, but ceases to accelerate. If I "ease" it up past 4k rpm it will keep going, but as soon as I give it any boost revs slow dramatically and so does acceleration (obviously).
I really need to get a fuel pressure gauge so I can get an idea of what is going on with that.
Something else is going on with the fueling now.
I got the exhaust leak completely eliminated finally. It sounds a lot nicer in the cabin while driving now.
After I fixed that I took her out for a spin and it seems that when the secondaries should be kicking in, it falls on it's face. So basically high revs with any boost and it loses power...still runs, but ceases to accelerate. If I "ease" it up past 4k rpm it will keep going, but as soon as I give it any boost revs slow dramatically and so does acceleration (obviously).
I really need to get a fuel pressure gauge so I can get an idea of what is going on with that.
07-28-11, 10:05 AM
#29
Caveat: All this is on the stock turbo, if someone were running a hybrid or other larger turbo then the over running of the stock fpr and ensuing richness might not seem like a problem but it is a bootleg way of increasing fueling and not ideal or tunable.
something else is going on with the fueling now.
I got the exhaust leak completely eliminated finally. It sounds a lot nicer in the cabin while driving now.
After I fixed that I took her out for a spin and it seems that when the secondaries should be kicking in, it falls on it's face. So basically high revs with any boost and it loses power...still runs, but ceases to accelerate. If I "ease" it up past 4k rpm it will keep going, but as soon as I give it any boost revs slow dramatically and so does acceleration (obviously).
I really need to get a fuel pressure gauge so I can get an idea of what is going on with that.
I got the exhaust leak completely eliminated finally. It sounds a lot nicer in the cabin while driving now.
After I fixed that I took her out for a spin and it seems that when the secondaries should be kicking in, it falls on it's face. So basically high revs with any boost and it loses power...still runs, but ceases to accelerate. If I "ease" it up past 4k rpm it will keep going, but as soon as I give it any boost revs slow dramatically and so does acceleration (obviously).
I really need to get a fuel pressure gauge so I can get an idea of what is going on with that.
I had a very similar problem, turned out the secondaries (recently cleaned/ flow tested) were sticking from a long period on non use (clutch break in). I had to apply 12v directly to the injector several times to un stick them. There is a lengthy thread about the issue in both the rtek and 2nd gen tech section if you search my name.
Yes! Data logs arr your friends.
07-28-11, 10:31 AM
#30
Well right now I'm running the factory fuel pump till I can sort out why the Q7 pump wasn't building enough pressure to even overcome the FPR and pass fuel back down the return line. As soon as I swapped out for the factory pump it fired right up. I'll deal more with the fuel pump and FPR issues when I move past the fueling ability of the factory pump.
The exhaust leak actually turned out to be a loose manifold nut and not the one I expected. I put the car up on ramps with it running and crawled under it and saw it was the top rear nut. So I tightened it till the leak stopped. I then test drove it, pulled it back in and put it back on ramps. Once it's done cooling I'll double check torque, then I'm putting double nuts on all the manifold studs so they won't back off anymore.
When your secondaries were stuck, could you hear them clicking under the proper circumstances (3800rpm+ and positive manifold pressure) and there just wasn't fuel? Or were they just not clicking at all?
I'm thinking I definitely have a secondary injector issue that's causing power to fall flat, but it's hard to tell since I can't go WOT because of fuel cut.
The exhaust leak actually turned out to be a loose manifold nut and not the one I expected. I put the car up on ramps with it running and crawled under it and saw it was the top rear nut. So I tightened it till the leak stopped. I then test drove it, pulled it back in and put it back on ramps. Once it's done cooling I'll double check torque, then I'm putting double nuts on all the manifold studs so they won't back off anymore.
When your secondaries were stuck, could you hear them clicking under the proper circumstances (3800rpm+ and positive manifold pressure) and there just wasn't fuel? Or were they just not clicking at all?
I'm thinking I definitely have a secondary injector issue that's causing power to fall flat, but it's hard to tell since I can't go WOT because of fuel cut.
07-28-11, 01:41 PM
#31
Good catch, I may double up on manifold nuts next time around myself just to be sure.
Yeah, that was the worst part about my injectors, they passed every test and seemed like they were working fine...
I followed karack's advice and swapped the primary and secondary injector pins at the ecu, them used a spare cas to simulate cranking. I listened w/ a mechanic's stethoscope and I could hear them clicking! Yet when I swapped the pins back and went for a drive it was still falling on its face.
I then took 12v and ground leads and to the injectors directly while the fuel system was pressurized. I held them open for 3-5 seconds and I could hear each one spraying strong. I went for a test drive and I was@ 9.x afr due to my previous attempts to "tune out" the secondaries not working.
My best guess is that the injectors only open for ms @ a time under normal operation and that wasn't enough to un stick them.
So redline often
Yeah, that was the worst part about my injectors, they passed every test and seemed like they were working fine...
I followed karack's advice and swapped the primary and secondary injector pins at the ecu, them used a spare cas to simulate cranking. I listened w/ a mechanic's stethoscope and I could hear them clicking! Yet when I swapped the pins back and went for a drive it was still falling on its face.
I then took 12v and ground leads and to the injectors directly while the fuel system was pressurized. I held them open for 3-5 seconds and I could hear each one spraying strong. I went for a test drive and I was@ 9.x afr due to my previous attempts to "tune out" the secondaries not working.
My best guess is that the injectors only open for ms @ a time under normal operation and that wasn't enough to un stick them.
So redline often
07-28-11, 02:55 PM
#32
Well, I don't think it's fuel anymore...I think it's electrical.
I drove the car to a friends house so we could do a little driving and to take some pictures. When I got there I shut the car down (using the "WOT rev, shut off at 3k rpm" trick to prevent flooding) and walked up to his door. He met me at the door and we walked back out to the cars. I got in and went to turn the car on and got nothing...except the headlights popped up. The didn't turn on, they just popped up. No lights (except dome and door lights), no gauges, no radio, no tail lights, no head lights, no reverse lights, no BAC coming on...NOTHING.
So I checked all of the fuses (both engine compartment and cabin), they're all good. I checked all the grounds (top of engine under IC, underneath the coils on the shock tower, and main battery ground at the bottom of the shock tower), they were all good too. So I pulled back the carpet, pulled the ECU plate and checked the ground near the ECU, it was good. I also checked the battery terminals and they were clean and nice and tight. The only thing I didn't try was jumping it off another car, because we didn't have cables. It's on the "To Try" list for tomorrow.
Now my car is sitting at my friend's house tonight while I try and research what is going on with my car so I can fix it tomorrow. It's a good thing I'm on leave or I'd be pissed about not having my car working.
Any ideas?
I drove the car to a friends house so we could do a little driving and to take some pictures. When I got there I shut the car down (using the "WOT rev, shut off at 3k rpm" trick to prevent flooding) and walked up to his door. He met me at the door and we walked back out to the cars. I got in and went to turn the car on and got nothing...except the headlights popped up. The didn't turn on, they just popped up. No lights (except dome and door lights), no gauges, no radio, no tail lights, no head lights, no reverse lights, no BAC coming on...NOTHING.
So I checked all of the fuses (both engine compartment and cabin), they're all good. I checked all the grounds (top of engine under IC, underneath the coils on the shock tower, and main battery ground at the bottom of the shock tower), they were all good too. So I pulled back the carpet, pulled the ECU plate and checked the ground near the ECU, it was good. I also checked the battery terminals and they were clean and nice and tight. The only thing I didn't try was jumping it off another car, because we didn't have cables. It's on the "To Try" list for tomorrow.
Now my car is sitting at my friend's house tonight while I try and research what is going on with my car so I can fix it tomorrow. It's a good thing I'm on leave or I'd be pissed about not having my car working.
Any ideas?
07-29-11, 08:45 AM
#33
Well, after creating a whole other thread trying to sort out the problem I discovered that it was a single old, nasty connector. I fixed it and she's running again, but it didn't fix the high rpm hesitation I have. I'm going to try adding the boost sensor ground to see if that helps. The weird thing is it does fine in 1st and 2nd gear, same amount of boost and rpms. In 3rd it's around 4500rpm when it hesitates, in 4th it's at 5000-5500rpm that it starts hesitating. The rpms will still climb, but the power is just gone.
Also, my Retro-Spec gauge pod came today! Here's a pic:
I don't know if I just have too high of standards or what, but I'm not super impressed. They used some kind of black gel coat on the lower half of the pod and it's like it over sprayed onto the top portion (the exposed part)...you can kind of see it where the lip comes out in the picture. I'm not about to go another 2months without a pod, I just would have figured waiting this long would have resulted in a flawless product. It was a good price though.
Also, my Retro-Spec gauge pod came today! Here's a pic:
I don't know if I just have too high of standards or what, but I'm not super impressed. They used some kind of black gel coat on the lower half of the pod and it's like it over sprayed onto the top portion (the exposed part)...you can kind of see it where the lip comes out in the picture. I'm not about to go another 2months without a pod, I just would have figured waiting this long would have resulted in a flawless product. It was a good price though.
07-29-11, 02:37 PM
#34
What psi is the hesitation occurring @ ? If its above 6.5 it could be maxing out stock components.
I got that pod for my brother for christmas, the finish was impressive, but I didn't really test the fit as I had my idiot lights still in. I went w/the ian99rt pod myself as I liked the mounting system, the fact that the gauges are angled to the driver and I'm too lazy to cut my own holes, lol.
I got that pod for my brother for christmas, the finish was impressive, but I didn't really test the fit as I had my idiot lights still in. I went w/the ian99rt pod myself as I liked the mounting system, the fact that the gauges are angled to the driver and I'm too lazy to cut my own holes, lol.
07-29-11, 02:49 PM
#35
The hesitation is at 4-5psi. If I let up on the gas a little it starts to take off again. I'll worry more about it when I can data log with the RTEK (end of Aug, when I get back from the states). I'm only going to be driving the car for a couple more days before we fly over to the states for vacation.
The fit is good into the dash. It's tight enough I'm really not worried about taping it in. I may do velcro at some point. Unfortunately, I had to clearance the Oil Pressure and the Water Temp gauges because they were too long for the pod. I'm not sure which crappy design to blame it on, the crap Prosport gauges or the pod being too sloped. Here's a couple pics:
I'll definitely be going for new gauges in the near future. After I installed the boost gauge (the only one that's 100% hooked up) it started reading 10inHg with the car shut off. Tweaking the wires in the back causes the needle to move around. I gave them a try, but I am totally unimpressed with the Prosports. Lucky for me I'm only out $60 for the set of three. Guess you get what you pay for.
The fit is good into the dash. It's tight enough I'm really not worried about taping it in. I may do velcro at some point. Unfortunately, I had to clearance the Oil Pressure and the Water Temp gauges because they were too long for the pod. I'm not sure which crappy design to blame it on, the crap Prosport gauges or the pod being too sloped. Here's a couple pics:
I'll definitely be going for new gauges in the near future. After I installed the boost gauge (the only one that's 100% hooked up) it started reading 10inHg with the car shut off. Tweaking the wires in the back causes the needle to move around. I gave them a try, but I am totally unimpressed with the Prosports. Lucky for me I'm only out $60 for the set of three. Guess you get what you pay for.
07-29-11, 04:00 PM
#36
Can't wait to see those data logs.
The problem is that u got the cheap (probably mechanical) gauges. The premium gauges are 1.x" deep, fit easily, and have higher quality senders. I have been running the premium boost gauge for over 3 years w/no problems. Even the 45mm gauges are of good quality. So yes, you get what u pay for.
Edit: even the cheap ones look good, lol.
The problem is that u got the cheap (probably mechanical) gauges. The premium gauges are 1.x" deep, fit easily, and have higher quality senders. I have been running the premium boost gauge for over 3 years w/no problems. Even the 45mm gauges are of good quality. So yes, you get what u pay for.
Edit: even the cheap ones look good, lol.
07-30-11, 02:07 PM
#37
Well, I'm probably just gonna go the other end of the spectrum and get Defi gauges...I'll end up spending a grip of money, but at least I'll know they're accurate.
I found out I can get all my injectors cleaned and flow tested by Witch Hunter (witchhunter.com) for $100 ($20 of that is the shipping to and fro). $20/injector isn't a bad price at all and since they're a smaller and lesser known company than RC their turn around is likely to be a little quicker. Plan is to pull the UIM again tomorrow. Pull the injectors and mail them off on Monday. Then when I return from the states the post office will have my RTEKed N332 and my newly cleaned and tested injectors. That should work nicely.
I also have a Gilmer Drive kit on the way. The gilmer alt pulley is for an FD, so I think I'll try and hunt down a scrap yard FD to harvest an alt off of. The only remaining concern will be if my power steering crank pulley will work with the gilmer setup or I may have to order the separate v-belt pulley that fits with the gilmer crank pulley.
So the next three weeks are going to be lots of nothing while I'm state side, followed by a week or so of scrambling to put everything back together and running for me to finally go back to work.
I found out I can get all my injectors cleaned and flow tested by Witch Hunter (witchhunter.com) for $100 ($20 of that is the shipping to and fro). $20/injector isn't a bad price at all and since they're a smaller and lesser known company than RC their turn around is likely to be a little quicker. Plan is to pull the UIM again tomorrow. Pull the injectors and mail them off on Monday. Then when I return from the states the post office will have my RTEKed N332 and my newly cleaned and tested injectors. That should work nicely.
I also have a Gilmer Drive kit on the way. The gilmer alt pulley is for an FD, so I think I'll try and hunt down a scrap yard FD to harvest an alt off of. The only remaining concern will be if my power steering crank pulley will work with the gilmer setup or I may have to order the separate v-belt pulley that fits with the gilmer crank pulley.
So the next three weeks are going to be lots of nothing while I'm state side, followed by a week or so of scrambling to put everything back together and running for me to finally go back to work.
07-30-11, 04:06 PM
#39
I hear ya, I went w/ Injector Rehab myself, very informative website and quick turnaround.
As far as the gauges, I got swept up I'm the defi hype when they first got popular, fortunately I didn't have the money to buy them at the time. By the time I did I got a chance to do some research, its hard to justify the difference in price when compared to the difference in quality... (unless maybe u get a deal on some used ones)
Good idea on the FD alt, fc alt is crap. Glimmer drives look cool, but I've never seen one w/power steering, good luck on that.
In any event, should be a fun trip to the post office when u get back!
As far as the gauges, I got swept up I'm the defi hype when they first got popular, fortunately I didn't have the money to buy them at the time. By the time I did I got a chance to do some research, its hard to justify the difference in price when compared to the difference in quality... (unless maybe u get a deal on some used ones)
Good idea on the FD alt, fc alt is crap. Glimmer drives look cool, but I've never seen one w/power steering, good luck on that.
In any event, should be a fun trip to the post office when u get back!
08-03-11, 09:01 AM
#40
I'm open to suggestions on gauges.
I'm definitely going with the Innovate LC-1 for the wideband, but I hate that there's no accuracy comparison test or anything out there for gauges.
I just want something that's reliable and accurate. I'm considering a couple PLX DM-100s since that will allow me to get senders for all the different parameters and only have to have the one pod. And I can get em one at a time and just keep adding on the senders, no real additional wiring hassle like when you have to add more gauges. I've been doing so many searches trying to find gauge info, but most of what I find is too old or too qualitative (no accuracy checking).
I'm definitely going with the Innovate LC-1 for the wideband, but I hate that there's no accuracy comparison test or anything out there for gauges.
I just want something that's reliable and accurate. I'm considering a couple PLX DM-100s since that will allow me to get senders for all the different parameters and only have to have the one pod. And I can get em one at a time and just keep adding on the senders, no real additional wiring hassle like when you have to add more gauges. I've been doing so many searches trying to find gauge info, but most of what I find is too old or too qualitative (no accuracy checking).
08-03-11, 09:04 AM
#41
I haven't mess with the RTEK at all, if I have my Palm hooked up to it I can monitor boost and all that via the ECU until I get a reliable gauge right?
With my boost gauge not working properly I need some way of monitoring it...though it is definitely secondary to O2 levels.
With my boost gauge not working properly I need some way of monitoring it...though it is definitely secondary to O2 levels.
08-03-11, 10:22 AM
#42
The lc-1 is a great choice, its the only wb out there (that I'm aware of) the checks itself for accuracy.
The xd series display units (also from innovative) can display a wide range of data and can be linked to run off the same power/illumination source. So you could use all innovative units for your gauges. The only issue I have is that some gauges are easier to read at a glance if they are analog (needle) as opposed to digital, but I suppose that's a personal preference.
As far as accuracy checking, you can compare the values that matter against the rtek and see how they stack up. My coolant temp gauge reads low by 10-15° but that is because I don't have it mounted in the ideal location. However once you establish that the coolant temp sender gives a reliable reading you should be able to trust the oil temp as most companies use the same temp sender. For fuel pressure monitor w/ a mechanical gauge to verify the readings, same could be done w/oil pressure. Electronics don't slowly degrade, they either work our they don't, so once you establish the accuracy of the gauges you can just worry about enjoying the car.
Yes, the rtek can monitor and log any sensor that the ecu sees (read: not gauges). It can also set alarms for certain values. However it is not ideal for on-the-fly monitoring as the screen is small and most palms don't have outstanding battery life.
The xd series display units (also from innovative) can display a wide range of data and can be linked to run off the same power/illumination source. So you could use all innovative units for your gauges. The only issue I have is that some gauges are easier to read at a glance if they are analog (needle) as opposed to digital, but I suppose that's a personal preference.
As far as accuracy checking, you can compare the values that matter against the rtek and see how they stack up. My coolant temp gauge reads low by 10-15° but that is because I don't have it mounted in the ideal location. However once you establish that the coolant temp sender gives a reliable reading you should be able to trust the oil temp as most companies use the same temp sender. For fuel pressure monitor w/ a mechanical gauge to verify the readings, same could be done w/oil pressure. Electronics don't slowly degrade, they either work our they don't, so once you establish the accuracy of the gauges you can just worry about enjoying the car.
Yes, the rtek can monitor and log any sensor that the ecu sees (read: not gauges). It can also set alarms for certain values. However it is not ideal for on-the-fly monitoring as the screen is small and most palms don't have outstanding battery life.
08-03-11, 11:48 AM
#43
I prefer needles, or being able to have a needle option.
What I meant about accuracy checks is that there's no third party our there that test gauges and reviews them. I know how to check gauges for accuracy, what I'd like are gauges that are known to be very accurate from the get go. Gauges that I won't have to constantly wonder "is it accurate still".
I've seen horror stories about a lot of the major manufacturers, but it's hard to sift through it all and know what's real and what's stupid people that don't know how to install a gauge.
And Innovate just discontinued the XD-16 gauges.
What I meant about accuracy checks is that there's no third party our there that test gauges and reviews them. I know how to check gauges for accuracy, what I'd like are gauges that are known to be very accurate from the get go. Gauges that I won't have to constantly wonder "is it accurate still".
I've seen horror stories about a lot of the major manufacturers, but it's hard to sift through it all and know what's real and what's stupid people that don't know how to install a gauge.
And Innovate just discontinued the XD-16 gauges.
08-03-11, 01:37 PM
#44
Gotcha!, yea, the only comprehensive accuracy test I've ever found was for WB and it was conducted by Innovative.
Honestly if accuracy is your primary concern, go with VDO gauges they are cheap, accurate, and standard equipent on planes and BMW's......should be easy to get on your side of the pond too. Only downside is they are less stylish than some other gauges that you might "wonder is it still accurate?"
Really though, is it that big a deal? even cheap gauges are better than stock (just leave the fuel level gauge alone). Also, many race cars run autometer gauges which I've heard many accuracy complaints about and they seem to do just fine. The only place where extreme accuracy is arguably necessary is the sensors that the ecu sees (which with the Rtek are all stock anyway)
Honestly if accuracy is your primary concern, go with VDO gauges they are cheap, accurate, and standard equipent on planes and BMW's......should be easy to get on your side of the pond too. Only downside is they are less stylish than some other gauges that you might "wonder is it still accurate?"
Really though, is it that big a deal? even cheap gauges are better than stock (just leave the fuel level gauge alone). Also, many race cars run autometer gauges which I've heard many accuracy complaints about and they seem to do just fine. The only place where extreme accuracy is arguably necessary is the sensors that the ecu sees (which with the Rtek are all stock anyway)
08-03-11, 01:59 PM
#45
The main ones I worry about being accurate are oil pressure, fuel pressure, and boost. Mostly because they're the ones that if something is going to go awry it will involve one of those three.
I'm not worried about cost too much, I don't mind spending a little more to get the right parts...I've already been burned by a couple of things I cheaped out on and am paying for it now (gauges and fuel pump immediately come to mind lol).
I don't really buy much here, I order mostly from the states cause the dollar sucks so much that the exchange rate really jacks the prices up here.
I'm not worried about cost too much, I don't mind spending a little more to get the right parts...I've already been burned by a couple of things I cheaped out on and am paying for it now (gauges and fuel pump immediately come to mind lol).
I don't really buy much here, I order mostly from the states cause the dollar sucks so much that the exchange rate really jacks the prices up here.
08-08-11, 12:28 PM
#49
So I've been sitting in the passenger terminal at Ramstein AB since Aug 3, ugh. In the mean time I've just been doing lots of reading and monitoring my tracking numbers.
My RTEKed N332 is waiting for me to pick it up. My injectors are being delivered to Witch Hunter today. Gilmer drive kit arrived at my grandparent's house.
All I need to get to be prepared when I come home is the LC-1 (with or without gauge, doesn't really matter) and a FD alt for the gilmer setup.
Speed Hut actually makes wideband gauges that are specifically calibrated to work with the various wideband manufacturers. I did a lot of looking around their site and am completely sold on them.
I'm juggling getting the last few things I need for the 7 and working a deal on a Harley V-Rod Muscle. Selling my GSXR-1000 for the down payment on it...very excited about the new motorcycle. So needless to say, I've been pretty busy despite being stuck in an airport.
My RTEKed N332 is waiting for me to pick it up. My injectors are being delivered to Witch Hunter today. Gilmer drive kit arrived at my grandparent's house.
All I need to get to be prepared when I come home is the LC-1 (with or without gauge, doesn't really matter) and a FD alt for the gilmer setup.
Speed Hut actually makes wideband gauges that are specifically calibrated to work with the various wideband manufacturers. I did a lot of looking around their site and am completely sold on them.
I'm juggling getting the last few things I need for the 7 and working a deal on a Harley V-Rod Muscle. Selling my GSXR-1000 for the down payment on it...very excited about the new motorcycle. So needless to say, I've been pretty busy despite being stuck in an airport.
08-12-11, 01:55 PM
#50
Got an FD alternator and I got a LC-1 on the way (sans gauge), both pretty cheap.
Planning on eventually picking up the Speed Hut wideband gauge, but I can run it without for now as long as I have it plugged into the extra input on the RTEK and have my Palm connected. I'm definitely glad I got the IIIc because it's back lit and easy to read at night.
Paid for my injectors and they're on their way back to my APO box.
Enjoying my vacation, but will be happy to get things buttoned up on the car when I get home.
Planning on eventually picking up the Speed Hut wideband gauge, but I can run it without for now as long as I have it plugged into the extra input on the RTEK and have my Palm connected. I'm definitely glad I got the IIIc because it's back lit and easy to read at night.
Paid for my injectors and they're on their way back to my APO box.
Enjoying my vacation, but will be happy to get things buttoned up on the car when I get home.