kabooski

Would it be a bad idea to put a intercooler (which the ends come out the side of the Rad) behind the radiator

How about a good elec fan for rad and another one behind the intercooler would that work good?

pro's ? get to keep A/C ...no cutting of chassis..no battery relocation

con's?

Scott 89t2

no cause then all the hot air is comming through the intercooler.... cooling hot air with hot air...

kabooski

if I remove the A/C's radiator would that help?
the intercooler would be recieving all the air dams force
in that case..

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

I saw this setup on a TII where I live. The guy that did it owned a performance shop, so I would amagine he knew what he was doing. I think that you could get enough fresh air to it that it would work well. He told me to convert mine to that because it will not get heat soaked as easily as sitting on top of a hot motor. Some parts make sence to me, but I would rather have it in front, but its a pain in the ***.

SoloRacer

Another thing that some friends of mine and I were considering was moving the rad back towards the engine with spacers and putting on large (surface area) intercooler in front. Because we are running electric fans we have plenty of room to play with between the rad and the engine.

HN

soloracer, my friend did what you said and put the 740 volvo ic in front of the radiator. i'll try to get some pics next time i see him.

Scott 89t2

removing the a/c isn't going to help if the IC is still behind the rad. it's the oil cooler and rad that will heat it up. you want it in front. hence "front mount ic"

SoloRacer

Here's the intercooler we first considered for the job.

http://webpages.krausonline.com/spaul/intrcool.html

I'm relocating my battery to the parcel bin behind the passenger compartment. It looked as though the intercooler piping could stradle the stock rad (running through the battery box to the intake). We thought we could move the rad back and put this bad boy in. I was worried about overheating due to insufficient airflow getting to the rad with this bad boy in place. It turns out from the measurements that this intercooler is too wide for our car but you get the idea of what we are considering.

Scott 89t2

the old volvo IC's fit perfect infront of the stock rad. you leave the bottom attached and move the top back a couble inches, move the battery and put on an electric fan. and cut your upper rad hose shorter. but ah, use metal pipes

SoloRacer

Scott,

That's the idea we had. I've heard of this done before with the Volvo intercooler. The only thing I disliked about the Volvo intercooler is I believe they have plastic end tanks. I really would want aluminum end tanks to be safe and avoid any cracks.

kabooski

Hey Scott that intercooler that you got in the Pic (volvo) IS
behind the rad
that what im saying
putting my intercooler like that
the front air dam will "push" air to the intercooler and oil cooler
while a electric fan will "pull" air from the rad
which leaves one slight draw back
no forced air will reach the rad

will this cause higher temps? thats my concern

Scott 89t2

no the intercooler is infront of the rad... the air goes through the IC before the rad.

asumming you have the bottom plastic peice there and I would make a top peice too, all air going through the IC would have to go through the rad, so it's ok. the fan doesn't do anything once you are moving anyways. it's only for when your stoped or going slow.

mazdaspeed7

Lets think about just how much air it takes to make an intercooler operate efficiently enough to work fine. The TII stock intercooler is right over the engine, and has a scoop in the hood. But the air deosnt have a good place to go once it goes through the intercooler, so therefore it is not very effective. BUT it is still effective enough for Mazda to produce all TII's that way. Also, the FD stock intercooler is behind the radiator. Same idea.

Now, I admit neither of these examples are making very effieient use of the intercooler, but they were efficient enough. Unless you plan on running very high boost levels for long periods of time, such as road racing, I dont think intercooler placement is THAT big of an issue, so long as your engine isnt tuned so close to the limit that 10 degrees higher intake temps will kill your engine, and your intercooler is sized big enough that you dont need it to be operating at its maximum efficiency.

Scott 89t2

nope, 3rd gen on is above the rad with it's own fresh air. the rad sits almost level with the ground underneith the IC.

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

how did you figure that the IC was behind the rad? That is in front of it, that would be considered a fmic. Now Im still interested on the drawbacks of putting it behind the rad. I still think that it would be better than it sitting on a hot motor. There would be shorter IC piping than a true front mount, giving you less lag right? I think that I will have to agree with mazdaspeed7 that it would be better than the stock location. just my .02

PraxRX7

I just got the craziest idea, why not mount either the intercooler or the radiator underneith the car?

You might have to do some custom modification, but you could do it, and plus you could "ram air" into there pretty good while moving with an under-body scoop system (only problem would be to keep the scoop level no further down than the lowest part of the car (or not by much anyways) also you might have to upgrade the water pump....I don't know for sure...)

SoloRacer

That is an interesting idea but I'm not sure how easy it would be to accomplish. The problem with vents and scoops is that I think a good knowledge of aerodynamics is needed to know how to build an effective one. The prime example is the scoop on the T2. It is pretty much useless because the airflow on the car actually passes above the scoop when moving. So because the scoop is in a low pressure zone whle moving there is not much air entering it or something to that effect. I have a friend who is a refridgeration mechanic who hooked up a gauge and took temperature readings from the inlet and outlet sides of our intercoolers. I don't remember what the readings were (he did post a thread on it here somewhere) but I do know they were not too impressive.

Now as for mounting the intercooler between the rad and the engine I don't think you will get much of an improvement over stock because you will be blowing nothing but hot air that just passed through your rad into your intercooler. Also, if you are going through the effort of making a front mount it only makes sense to spend the extra time to put it in front of the radiator where it will work best. Why spend the time and money putting it between the rad and engine only to have it work the same or slightly better than stock?

rx7_turbo2

Soloracer makes good points on all accounts. Mounting the IC under the car would be difficult from a installation point of view, also you would have to protect it from rocks and sticks and anything else you might run over.

Mounting the IC behind the rad might be better than the stock situation, but not by much. In one case you have it mounted on top of a hot engine, on the other you have it mounted behind a hot rad. A situation came up in another thread about mounting a leaf blower to the intake of an n/a to force air in like a supercharger:p. Why not do things right the first time. Buy a supercharger, or in this case....We all know an FMIC is the best way to go, so why not just go that way in the first place. Find an IC that fits and will work well, then mount it infront (see front mount intercooler) and the rad behind it with an electric fan on the rad. The only problem I see is what IC to use.

mazdaspeed7

You people are so closed-minded. If nobody tried to do something new and differnt, nothing new would ever be invented, improved, or anything like that. If you can afford it, go for it. Its always to see someone with an open mind try a new idea. It might now work, but then again, it just might. You cant know until someone tries it.

SoloRacer

I'm all for trying something different - provided the theory behind it is sound. People should spend more time learning why things work the way they do and then come up with better ways to do it. Read Corkey Bell's book on Maximum Boost for example and learn what makes a good intercooler and how to select a turbo. People who prefer to spend the time and money on experimenting on stuff without understanding the theory behind what they are doing are not doing themselves any favors. The worst part is that these same people tend to draw followers. The nice thing about this forum is the ability to openly discuss the issues and gain knowledge. Those who proceed anyway after being given sound reasons against it are 99.9% of the time the same guys who have no clue how things work and end up back here posting messages about problems with their cars. Read the thread on the guy who pulled the vacuum line to his wastegate to get maximum boost as an example. He's popped two engines and still does things like this without understanding that a turbocharger has a range where it is efficient and that even if he had proper fueling and ignition timing (which he did not know he needed by the way) he could still detonate because his turbo is heating the inlet air too a dangerous level. So if we tell him not too and he goes and does it again anyway and then pops his engine should any of us have sympathy for him? Should we be more "open minded" and commend him for his willingness to experiment? I think not. The same holds true for the leaf blower thread. The guys who are suggesting using a leaf blower to get boost obviously do not understand the basics of turbocharging and how boost is produced. And by the way intercooler placement is "THAT big of a deal". If mounted in a spot that gets no airflow or is being heated from another source you could end up with an interheater instead of an intercooler and actually lose performace. The placement of your intercooler is the most important issue to be resolved. It will also dictate what size and shape of intercooler you can use as well as how easy your piping will be to create. And the size and shape of your intercooler play a part in determining how efficient your intercooler is. Read Corky Bells book and you will understand why.

How are we close minded about this thread? We never said that an intercooler behind the rad or mounted below the car would not work. All we said is that neither would work better than a standard front mount. I believe we have made it clear why a mounting the intercooler behind the rad is not a good idea. I do however find the idea of mounting the intercooler horizontal on the bottom of the engine bay intrigueing. It's an interesting thought but I still don't see how you will get more airflow through a horizontal bottom mounted intercooler than through a front mount. Also the piping required for such a unit would have more bends in it than an FMIC that could become a restriction. So it wouldn't be done for better performance over a FMIC. The next reason to do it could be ease of installation. But with the necessary fabrication of an effective scoop and the actual mounting of the intercooler so that it gets clean airflow without interfering with the steering rack, etc. I don't see how it could be easier to install.

I once saw a pic of a T2 in Japan with a horizontally mounted intercooler but this one was mounted up high. A duct in the front of the car drew air in and up and a scoop in the hood let the air pass out. Attached is a pic of an NSX with the type of hood scoop I am thinking of. I don't know how effective the intercooler on that T2 was but it was definately interesting.

P.S. The scoop on the NSX is to create more downforce not for intercooling.

AlixxxilA

Hey i know im abit late in this tread but i was very intersted in the volvo front mount intercool setup. i was probaly going to go that route due to my budget. is the intercooler just wedge between the rad and the car frames? is there a write up anywhere by chance, or anyone that has done it and it works that i can get ahold of. Thanks guys

Alix
91 turbo II

Gene

iTrader: (1)

The cool thing to do in Japan right now is to move the rad down a little bit and then mount the IC horizontally across the engine bay, so if you're looking straight down on the engine bay you see the whole flat side of the IC staring up at you. Some ducting is required to get fresh air to it, and an exit scoop in the hood is recommended. I have some pics from a Japanese magazine, I'll try to scan and put em up in the next few days

SoloRacer

That is probably the picture I saw. It definately was an eyecatcher. I would love to see that picture again so let us know when it is available. Thanks!

kabooski

Well I tired several diffrent places to put my intercooler and after good thought

The best place is where the A/C evaporater is

which means I will need to cut holes on the rad frame
No AC
Relocate Batt to rear
But this is the best place
for maximum cooling force

Tommarow I get my Full( DP-to-Muffler )single exhaust done
with a 3" Ultra-Flow Muffler
and a FCD

13's here I come

***Front Intercooler will be installed in a couple of weeks***
Tho'

BogusFile

Anyone want to buy a volvo intercooler like the one pictured above?
100 bucks plus shipping.
BH13b@aol.com