brent clement

I know there's a lot of threads on this topic however none of them seem to answer my questions. My question's are as follows;

1. Can I simply machine my fuel rail or ad another one and machine the intake runners(5th and 6th)to accept another set of stock 460 injectors then wire them in parallel w/the existing 2? I have a super afc 2 for adjustment and will be running 550 primaries.

2. I'll be running a 255lph pump. Will I need to upgrade the pulsation damper and the fuel pressure regulator? What will the stock regulator do when the vaccum in the line turns to boost?

3. Do I need to install check valves on my vaccum lines? BTW I have removed all emissions, the rats nest(obviously) and the powersteering and air pump.

4. The super afc has knock sensor capabilities. Can I simple add a knock sensor? If so which one is recommended and in what location? Keep in mind I have access to a complete machine shop and own a fabricating shop here at my house complete with a large tig welder.

I realize this is a lot of questions however I would really appreciate some experienced input. The reason I'm going about this build up is because I enjoy the fabricating and this car will really show case my work. Thanks for your time.

Brent

RETed

Stop half-assing that **** and get a stand-alone EMS...


-Ted

brent clement

How'd I know someone would say that? LOL Well at least I know you've got a clue. Will it work? I' m on a budget.

brent clement

C'mon ted, Throw me a bone. I know the stand alone is the way to go. It's just that right now I don't have a few thousand to spend on the ems and tuning.

Brent

Syonyk

You don't need a few thousand...

And, seriously. How much is a rebuild these days?

Also, the SAFC-II does have knock sensor support, but it's read-only. I don't believe it's capable of actually doing anything when it detects knock, which means you'd have to be looking at it, and... yea. Basically useless.

-=Russ=-

brent clement

Yes the afc2 is read only on the knock sensor. No it doesn't do anything. However it will allow me to tune the motor safely. We all know what happens when a rotary experiences knock under boost especially with 9.7/1 rotors.

As for the price of a rebuild, I just built the motor. It's not even broken in. At the time of the build I wasn't planning on a turbo kit, things just kinda happened.

As for the stand alone the tuning alone is $1000 for an 8hr session on the dyno. I don't know anyone(a friend or such) that is equipped to do the tuning so I would have to take the car to Toronto.
I would really appreciate some constructive input. Thank you

Brent

Z3r0

i actually have a Turbo+n/a as well but I broke the transmission =(, but thats neither here nor there. I wanted to add additional injectors, except I was considering 4x 550cc + 2x 720 cc, but I was going to plumb them in before the TB, and would be wondering how I would need to plumb the fuel lines too. As for the engine management, have you considered the e-manage? It may not be a stand alone but I think its a better option than a SAFC.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Isn't tuning based on knock a bad idea on a rotary? BTW, a megasquirt is only 200-250 and can control all the injectors you want, assuming you can get the software.

BlaCkPlaGUE

lol, thats a neat idea. Running two injectors off one connector so to say. I wonder if that would work since they are in sync.

So could you run two small 225cc (in theory injectors) injectors instead of one 450?

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

wtf? How much boost do you plan on running so that you need additional injectors? The SAFC will not control more injectors than the car came with from the factory. It simply modifies the airflow signal before it reaches the factory ecu, in effect "fooling" the factory equipment into making the necessary corrections. If you are going to turbocharge your n/a engine get that fuel pump, a rising rate regulator, and a good EMS. But even then, with good tuning your lookin at 5-7psi on pump gas.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

5-7 PSI? Assuming you have the right turbo, you can easily make 15 psi, possibly 20. There are numerous people on here doing it.

brent clement

You guys need to remember that I live in Canada (other than z3ro)and all custom **** here is a lot more expensive than in the states. I've already purchased everything i listed at the beginning of the thread(and then some). I'll be running the stock turbo off a sr20det. I'm hoping it will support 10lbs. The stock fuel system is already maxed out because of the aggressive street port. I went with the afc 2 because I got it cheap and because it was the only one that I'm familliar with. The afc has a warning (flashes) at whatever preset value you enter so that way I can set it a safe level and it will let me know that i need to make adjustments before the motor pops. Motors don't simply knock or not, there are always small levels of knocking going on (in most cases) just at exceptable levels.

here's the list of what's done and bought so far;

super afc 2
sr20det turbo(thinking about enlarging the wastegate)
1/2" stainless flanges to make the turbo manifold(laser cut)
2" stainless tubing(for turbo manifold as well)
3"stainless for the downpipe
blitz ssq blow off valve
255 lph pump(not in the car yet)
24"x12"x3" fmic
boost and a/f guage
boost t (waste gate controller)
550cc injectors (for the primaries)
rebuilt and street ported 6 port(smoothed out the rotor faces and increased the bathtub a little)
custom aluminun shroud and electric fan(welded by me)
eibach pro kit springs w/tokico's from the 88 AE
custom intake (machined by me)

brent clement

Sorry about that my last message should have been here.LOL

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Why only 550 in the primaries? Why not secondaries? I think you need more fuel fo sho.

TonyTurboII

Hah, and half assed tuner could tune your car in 1/3rd to 1/4th of that amount of time.

ddub

Budget + boosted n/a = bad idea

iceblue

This thread is going no ware :-(

I don’t know why there is this idea of extra rails and so on. You can’t just splice them in and call it a day you will have to create your own OHM resistance pack and possible if you have a <JAN87 harness you have low imp injectors. Adding injectors will change the OHM load across the board therefore neither injectors will work. You will have to directly control them from another unit or build an OHM resistance/amplifier pack. And the placement before the TB is a good way to put your car on fire!

Dood just buy some 720cc injectors or some 850cc injectors for your secondarys and 550cc for your P. Remember the SAFC can only pull cells back from the fuel not add. Your boost level will be getting sketchy with even stock turbo injectors. I hope your AFR is a wide band that woulda cost you half the dyno time right there or it will be useless to tune outside of your idle.

Syncro

iTrader: (1)

How much IS a rebuild these days?

ddub

Anywhere from 500 dollars to 10,000 dollars depending on if you do it, if a shop does it, what shop, what porting (if any), what parts are reused (if any), what new parts you want, what other mods you want, installation if it's needed...

Need more info than just a "rebuild." In fact you probably wouldn't know for sure until you opened up the engine and looked at stuff.

Syonyk

My implied point was that a proper standalone & tuning is most likely cheaper than a decent rebuild. Sorry for not being clearer.

-=Russ=-

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

dude, are you aware how small a T25 (stock sr20det turbo) is? its about half the size of a stock TII turbo and would be completely horrible for your setup. you're going to do all this work: make a manifold, make a downpipe, blow all this money, and use a T25.... dont buy ANY of this crap, use a stock TII turbo with a block/manifold spacer, and get some sort of engine management.

you will be using an safcII, yay. they are junk. especially when you need to retard TIMING more than you need to add fuel. what base ECU are you going to be running? i hope to god not an NA ecu because they have almost NO ignition retard over i think its 3psi...

it seems you're getting in over your head and you need to do a big more research.

cliff notes:
buy a stock TII turbo and manifold and spacer
sell junk safcII (dont wanna blow that motor since you're on a budget and all)
get a real EMS for about 800 bucks
hammer.


edit: REALLY if i were you, i'd just buy a jspec TII engine and a haltech. after it blows up THEN you can make your own manifolds and stuff and do a nice rebuild and some porting...

brent clement

I have a friend with all the equipment for the wide band so all I need is the sensor. The afc 2 allows for 50% correction up or down. Yes I realize how small the stock sr20 turbo is, it's sitting on my shelf. As for going to all the trouble of making the manifold if I want to upgrade the turbo after it's not that hard to modify my manifold or find a turbo that will bolt up. The down pipe is a piece of cake. So in case everyone hasn't figured it out yet, I'm just trying to make do with what I have available.

The change in resistance(injectors in series) is the main reason I started this thread. I have seen numerous other cars with injectors hooked up this way and they had no issues. However that doesn't mean that our computers won't. The reason for the 550 primaries is that I'm not going to be running full boost until 3or 4k any.(at least I think anyway) Due to the size of the turbo it may spool faster, we'll see. The car ran great with the stock 460cc injectors after the rebuild. Had a header and 2.5" exhaust w/dual cans.

Z3r0

well my car was running on my 550cc primaries and 720cc secondaries and it did regularly see 9psi-12psi, but I have no idea how much of the total duty cycle I'm actually using (I need to be tuned as well). I did have the safc2 as well, but I agree with jacobcartmill. Thats why I went emanage because you can add a boost sensor and adjust fuel correction based on boost and adjust timing as well. Also as for the extra injectors you can get an additional injector controller or the E-Manage can control up to 2 additional injectors as well. If you're ported you might need more fuel than I would because my engine is still stock ported. Good luck on your turbo'd na, and if your interested this is my cardomain page with some pics of my install etc etc.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/491227

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Wow, this thread is useless. You would think people would have learned by now, but I guess that's too much to expect. You'll want to ignore 90% of what's posted previously in this thread.


Short answer is yes, but why? It's not necessary to add injectors. Go 550 on the primaries, and 720 or so on the secondaries.

The stock reg wil raise pressure under boost, but you will want to go to an aftermarket regulator if you're using that pump. PD is OK.

No. But you will want one on the brake booster.

No. The knock sensor is useless. By the time you have detected knock, you've been detonating for a while. Tuning is best done with a wideband, for around 11.5:1 on turbo NA.

Almost any stock turbo from a piston powered car is too small for the RX-7. No point building a manifold, then having to do it again when you find out your turbo can't cut it.

brent clement

Thank you, FINALLY SOME USEFUL INPUT!!! That's all needed to hear. I guess I'll have to look in to finding a turbo. Seeing as how your in ont. do you know where I can find one Aaron? Also what type of rising rate fpr do you recommend. I've read some of your write ups and trust your opinion. The only reason for the extra injectors was because I was trying to be cheap. Guess I'll just by some 920's. Don't want to low ball it. As for the brake booster there's one there anyway.(Thanks for being thorough anyway) I was just about to ask someone to delete this lame *** thread. Like pulling teeth to get an answer.

Thanks again to Z3ro ,Jacobcartmill and Aaron. Much appreciated.