befarrer

iTrader: (1)

I have a stock 86 S4 NA motor in my B2200, I have all emissions deleted, running stock N326 electronics and ECU. I decided to check my ignition timing last night, and according to the marks on the front pulley, I am about 1/8 of a turn on the front pulley advanced, I had to bend over to find the leading timing mark under the water pump pulley. I tried adjusting the timing so the leading timing mark lined up with the mark on the front pulley, but I could only get it about 1/2 inch away, I noticed engine RRM's dropped about 150-200RPM at that timing mark.

This morning I removed the CAS to see if it was out, and it was correct, I removed and re-installed it a bunch of times to make sure, I even tried with it 1 tooth out, and it just about started lol, so I reset it to stock. I took some pictures, you can kind of make out the timing marks, the first one is with the CAS in the middle of the adjustment, and the second one is with it turned all the way counter clockwise (looking at the CAS from drivers side of engine bay).

One thing I also noticed, is that my leading and trailing plugs are firing at the same time, I checked all 4 plugs, and I thought both leading plugs fired at the same time? If I attach the timing gun to the rear leading, I cannot see any timing marks, the front pulley is 180º out, which is normal, but if they were firing at the same time, you would think I would see the timing mark? The pictures below were taken at operating temperature and an idle speed of 800-900RPM.

Pictures:
I marked the timing marks in green to make it easier to see.
CAS set to middle of adjustment, how the engine was when I bought it:


CAS rotated fully counter clockwise:


I am running premix on this motor and 87 Octane. The engine seems to run fine, starts good, fuel mileage is around 16-20L/100KM mostly city driving.

I decided to check the ignition timing because firstly the exhaust seems excessively eye burning, but reading up, seems normal lol. Also I have been getting a rough running on very light and very little throttle inputs when in gear only, its almost like it drops a rotor, it runs at a steady RPM, but shakes the truck a lot, and the exhaust sounds like an even miss (i.e. put, put, put, put, put, instead of brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr), but it only does it on about 1-3% throttle and only in gear. I have adjusted the TPS every different way I found online (settled on 1.0V at ECU terminal), I changed the TPS, and played with just about everything else. The only other option I can think about is adding a clutch switch, I did not install it thinking it was for cruise only, which my B2200 does not have.

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

Ok, after doing alot of reading online and finding out that some people have had incorrect timing marks on their pulleys, I went out to find TDC, marked the pulley for TDC and 5 degrees ATDC, was able to get to those timing marks easily with the CAS installed correctly. Runs much better. The stock marks were 27 degrees retarded, meaning the 5 degree ATDC mark was actually 32 degrees ATDC.

However, I am still having the issue of my leading and trailing plugs firing at the same time on the stock ECU. I don't think it is much of an issue, but it is not right so it will bug me lol.

jjwalker

That is strange. I am not sure what would cause that. Bumpstart could probably help I'd PM him.

I have heard of some of the racecar guys running standalone ecu's will set it up to where leading and trailing fire at the same time (no waste spark on the trailing side of course).

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

I am just wondering that since it is not supposed to do this, maybe the ECU is in some sort of fail-safe mode. If that is the case, then my fuel mileage will suffer, and power, etc...

jjwalker

Silly question, but just to be sure, how do you know the trailing plugs are firing at the same time as the leading?

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

When i clipped my timing light up to the trailing plug wire, it showed the exact same timing as the leading, both were lined up with the mark i made. The rear was the same, both leading and trailing lined up with the same dirt spec (no timing marks) on the pulley.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

once apon a time it was told that pulley stacks match the crank shaft to some degree and there are 4 or 5 different hole/pattern positions or something like that, is the crank pulley original to the e-shaft? that's what matters.

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

Mine isnt, the original timing marks are 27 degree's retarded. I found TDC (or as close as I can find without engine dissy) and marked the front pulley at tdc and 5 degrees ATDC. The pictures in the original post are before I found out my timing marks are way off, motor runs way better now, but still having issue of no timing split between leading and trailing on a stock ECU.

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

Just for giggles, I attached a picture of my plugs, which have since been replaced. These plugs were installed while I was doing the engine swap, and have about 7-8000KM on them. They are the leading plugs, and the front rotor is on the top of both pictures (the darker one), one plug is darker because I had a leaky secondary injector on the front rotor, that was causing it to flood all the time unless I bled off fuel pressure when I shut the motor off, I have since replaced with a new to me set of 4 injectors, and it has not flooded once in a month, and runs smoother.

Not sure if it is any help, also, my average fuel mileage with this motor is about 16-18L/100KM, and that is 95% city driving.

bumpstart

i am struggling to see how a pulley is nearly 30 degrees out
and so i think you have set the CAS incorrectly
one tooth out amounts to 30 at the crank


to set the timing correctly
.. you need the engine warmed up, the idle less than 1000, the TPS happy, and the set couple bridged
at that point the 5 ATDC and 20 ATDC marks will be in play

to guesti gauge the pulley the best without resorting to upsetting endfloats
then you read the flywheel ( or counter weight ) position

if you have a standard flywheel on,, ( view from rear )
then the bite missing from the back ring will at 3 oclock or be pointing at the exhaust

if you have an auto counterweight ( view from rear )
,, then the bumps will at 9 oclock or down the spark side
( look down inspection cover )

next

if the ecu is not seeing the FC dash then it will have different warm up modes to stock
as it cannot see the odometer switch which trips at so many kms in and changes the warmup
( to preserve the original cat )

also.. if the coolant temp is over 87 *C AND the air inlet temp over 85* C
the ecu will lock the timing at 5- 8 BTDC for both leading and trailing for up to 70 seconds after start

i would think you may have a ground offset issue with the harness at the motor, and or air, and possibly coolant sensor faults to perhaps force some of these sensor flags

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

I found TDC via the apex seal in the rear housing past both spark plug holes, I marked the pulley where the apex seal passed the middle of the leading and trailing plug holes, found that to be 120 degrees on the pulley. I researched and found that the trailing plug is 1.1" to the center of the housing, and the leading plug is 0.8", found out how many degree's make the apex seal move 0.1". I found out how many degrees past the leading mark and trailing mark was where the apex seal in the rear rotor was at the center of the housing (0.8" above the leading plug), and both numbers pointed to the same mark on the front pulley. I then measured it to be 27 degree's away from the marks already on the pulley that I was trying to time to.

Once I timed it to those marks, my timing was about where it was before I started, slightly more retarted than it was.

When I had the timing set to the original marks on the pulley, the motor would barely rev up in neutral, had a low idle, and the header would glow red on anything above idle, now it revs quickly and the header is not glowing lol.

Interesting on the coolant temp and air inlet temp comment that you made last, when I did the swap, I made sure all of the sensors were registering correct readings with an ohm meter. I should spend an hour, and back probe all ecu connectors and see if they agree with the service manual readings.

I am running the B2200 dash, which does not have the switch that you mentioned, if I recall, I grounded the wire, which told the ECU it was above 50,000 miles or whatever it was. I also have no radiator temperature switch, it broke, and I have not replaced it. I currently have that wire grounded to simulate coolant temperature being above 21ºC (or whatever the temp is that it switches).

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I'd try disconnecting that Rad sensor wire(that you grounded since the sensor broke).I wouldn't have grounded it.
I ran a sensor anyways and just put it aside.At least the harness was intact and all connected.

bumpstart

are you using the series 4 timing cover or a 12a/ gsl-se timing cover ?

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

I am using the S4 timing cover. It may be possible that at one time, it has been replaced, but as far as I know, its all S4.

PvillKnight7

iTrader: (16)

Did someone put the pulley on misaligned?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

The bolt pattern on the pulley,by rights only allow the pulley to go on correctly.
That is unless someone thought it was screwy and drilled the holes on the Pulley "to make it fit right".

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

Update, I checked for stored codes with the dual LED setup, I had none, but I finally got around to checking ECM voltages pin by pin, and I found out that terminal 3D had 12V at the terminal, should have under 1.5V, looking at the wiring diagrams, it is part of the confusing inhibitor switch/circuit opening switch/starter cut relay system, and in my configuration, it should be jumpered to terminal 3B, I tried jumpering it, and running much better. My ignition has the 15 degree split that it should, the RPM goes up to 2000RPM when started warm, and slowly goes down to 800RPM, and my exhaust is no where near as smelly as it was. This must have caused some internal error having that wire not hooked up, because it has made a world of difference, feels more powerful and everything. Another odd thing, I checked my timing with the initial set coupling grounded, and after I jumpered 3D to 3B, I had to advance my timing at least 5 degrees, where 15 minutes earlier, I checked it before jumpering, and it was correct.

I filled up this morning, will see if my fuel mileage increases.

Now all I have to do is hook up my clutch switch, I screwed up with that thinking I should leave the truck wiring for the clutch, however it is all backwards, the truck grounds the terminal when the clutch pedal is up, and open when down, where the RX7 ECU needs 12V with the pedal down, and 0V when up. Nothing a relay wont fix lol.

befarrer

iTrader: (1)

Did 220KM today, 90% highway, and driving at 70-75mph on the highway with the odd WOT acceleration and not driving the most conservative, I managed 24 MPG (imperial), and on my first tank, I managed about 18 MPH (imperial) which was about 80% city driving, not driving conservatively.

I also hooked up my clutch switch so every connector on my ECM is happy.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I did not realize the clutch interlock connected to the computer.