Jinx099

I'm having a problem with my 87 GXL, I think it's badly flooded and need some help. The other day, I put a *BRAND NEW* TPS in the car. I got to start it, and it started at first, then just sputterd and died after a few seconds. Tried again and it started and died after 1 second. After that , I had nothing. It cranked fine (after jumping it), bit no firing, and no starting obviously. I tried my normal deflooding techniques, pulling theegi fuse and pulling the fuel pump relay under that dash. The deflooding attempts helped in that the car would occasionally fire while cranking, but still no start.

The next day (today), I pulled out all 4 spark plugs and cleaned them off. They were all wet. I cranked the car several times with the plugs out, and light smoke came out of the hood. I kept cranking until I thought no more smoke was coming out and put the plugs back in. Then I tried starting again, and it starts a little better now, meaning that I'm getting more frequent firing during cranking, and it will start and rev up a few hundred rpms for a split second occasionally too. This is more likely when I try deflooding.

So my questions are:

1) Do you think I am, to some degree, flooded?
2) Could installing a new/different TPS have anything to do with my problems?
3) What are some tips to getting started again after a very bad flooding?
4) Could the IAT error code be related to these symptoms? (Unknown how long I've had this error)

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

check your AFM connector to see if it is plugged into the AFM.
the car will start and die until that connection is made.

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

Did you calibrate the tbs?

Not sure if you are doing this, but when de-flooding, squirt some oil into the spark plug holes.

Jinx099

Yes I did.

What will this do?

I just checked it, the connector is firmly plugged in. Is there something else I can do to rule out the AFM?

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

Re-seal compression. Try it

Jinx099

Okay thanks, I'll try it out. Is this the standard way to deflood when it gets bad? Are there other tricks I can try?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You could unplug the fuel pump connector and spray starter fluid into the intake for 2 seconds and then start the car. If the car starts briefly then you basically realize that the problem is fuel related as opposed to something else.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I would rather pull plugs and check for fuel then use starter fluid.

texFCturboII

iTrader: (17)

Make sure the car is fully warmed up before you calibrate it. If all else fails with the de-flood, get some guys and push start the S.O.B.

Jinx099

I wish I could have the car fully warmed up to set the TPS, but its a bit of a problem since the car wont start

Black Knight RX7 FC3S

iTrader: (7)

my car was in the same condition you are at right now when I first got it.
It was badly flooded. There was no compression at all.
What I did was I took out all 4 spark plugs, cranked the engine so all the gas would escape. I have a S5 so all I had to do was depress the accelerator all the way down to stop the fuel from injecting into the engine.
I did this in 10 secs intervals, for about 5 mins. Dont want to burn out the starter motor.
I then got a funnel and some regular motor oil and started to pour a teaspoon into each rotor face, front housing and back. I manually cranked the engine by hand while pouring in oil in each face. The engine should turn clockwise
I put in the old spark plugs back in and started to crank it in 10 secs intervals again for 5 mins
I took the old spark plugs out crank it a little bit while the are out, and then put in 4 new spark plugs.
Started the car normally and it started with some trouble.

If you are going to put oil in to build compression....I am going to warn you that A LOT o smoke will be coming out of the exhaust pipes. Its also a good way to see if you have an exhaust leak LOL.

basically, if you are flooded, the gas will dissolve the oil thats there for compression. if you are flooded badly, you will have to add oil to build compression

texFCturboII

iTrader: (17)

or just push start it.

3vil

iTrader: (4)

i'd wire up a fuel cut switch (not too much $ or time) and use that to manage your flooding issues.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i just unplug the fuel pump relay, mazda calls it the "circuit opening" relay, on a LHD car, its on the right side of the steering column.

if its really badly flooded, it does help to clean the plugs off, then crank with no fuel pump.

there is enough fuel in the engine/injectors etc to run the car for 10-30 seconds with no fuel pump, if you've done this before its easy to unplug, crank, start, and plug it back in so it stays running.

once you get it started, run it @like 2000-3000rpms until its warmed up, otherwise its just going to flood again

Jinx099

Update: Did some troubleshooting in the short times I've had time.


-Have compression, did a compression test and it looked good.
-Have fuel
-Not so good spark...

I hooked a timing light up to each of my plug wires. The leading plugs were firing very intermittently. The trailing plugs were not firing at all. All of this was while cranking but not starting obviously.

Then I replaced all the coils which a presumed good set, and it behaved the same way with the timing light.

Questions:

-What, besides bad coils, could cause intermittent/no spark?
-What should I test or look for going forward?
-Is there a better way to test for spark?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Focus on the leading coil as this is the only coil required to start and run the car. You can remove one of the plug wires from the coil bore and put it back where it came from but leave a small space between the bore and plug such as an 1/8th on an inch and try to start the car and observe for spark.

If you had a spare CAS this would be even better.

Jinx099

Unfortunately, I do not have a spare CAS. I did test it by checking the resistances, and they were within spec. Is there another way I can test the CAS?

satch

iTrader: (1)

4) Could the IAT error code be related to these symptoms? (Unknown how long I've had this error)


Was this code #4 or #15?

Jinx099

Code 15

Source: http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/article...odes/main.html

satch

iTrader: (1)

You could disconnect the plug to the CAS and at the ECU and do a continuity test to see if the signal from the CAS is making it to the ECU.

Rotary_Junkie

can you pop start it? have someone pull you and pop the clutch in second. flooded a lil or heavily it will start inless no spark or fuel but aparently you have. get it started and have someone give it gas so it doesnt die and then tune ur tps. my tps went bad but it didnt kill the car. the idle went up and down though. weird how ur tps killed ur car.

Jinx099

I have not yet tried push starting it. I do not want to do that now until I can be sure that my spark is good, which I don't think is the case right now.

At this point, I do not think my new TPS killed the car, I think the failure is coincidence.

Bamato

iTrader: (6)

I absolutely hate coincidental failures.... But unfortunately they happen fairly often....

Like Satch said, test for continuity between the CAS and ECU. Then at least you can rule out faulty connections and electrical gremlins...

satch

iTrader: (1)

A car can be started w/o the TPS connected so get that idea out of your head. Did you try the spark test which I suggested. The ignitors will not spark if the ground is not sufficient so you might want to take care of that by sanding down the fender where the bracket mates up to. Also clean the electrical connectors/plugs to the coils. Also, clean the plug connector to the CAS in addition to the continuity test of the respective wires.

Rotary_Junkie

wow. i guess my tps wasnt bad then lol. but after i changed it i had no problems. man once in a while every fc owner has a fluke like this. like this year i went to start my car and nothing. everything worked but the car didnt even attempt to start. weird? checked everything and did some research and went back to try to start again half n hour later and it started first try. sorry jinx i cant help you further more