WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Okie, this is a brand spankin' new thread, so i can hopefully figure out WTF is keeping my car from starting. Background: This is a 86 GXL, S4 motor, Rebuilt with all soft seals, apexes, springs and sides. It's mildly ported, it's not running emmissions (no air pump or cat), and no sub zero start kit.

what it's doing: It will crank, and sound like it's really close to turning over, and three times it did start, and stall out after about 15-20 seconds.. it would rev up to about 3000 rpm, somtimes 4, i would try to feather the throttle, and then it would stall. The only way i've gotten it to start is by putting a bit of oil (10w30) into the lower spark plug holes, after blowing it out.

Things I know/things i've done: I know it's getting good, clean spark, i know it's getting fuel. I'm pretty sure that the vaccumm system is good, although i'm not sure how to tell 100%. I have pull started it (hooked it up to a van and got it up to 20-30MPH and put the car in gear), That didn't do anything. I've re-timed it about 20 times, using the CAS notch and the yellow dot on the pully, and I can't get my timing gun to work on it, i'm assuming it has to be actually idling.
I've checked the fuses/wiring, and as far as I can tell, everything is okay......

Please help me out here, because i really have no clue what's happening.. if anyone lives near Williamsport, PA, and wants to swing by, i definatly wouldn't protest, as there are no rotary mechanics around here....

thanks for reading/helping.

chiefnobum

had the exact same problem on my rebuild...wouldnt' start for a while but one day I just decided it was going to start and I sat out there for 45 mins turning it over and making sure it wasn't flooding with a fuel cut switch and eventually it started once, but it wouldn't idle and wouldn't idle. I got it started a few times and it got a little quicker each time but would never idle until once for about 20 mins I would just rev it up then let the revs slowly drop till about 1k where it would try and stall but I would rev it up again and then drop it down there and did that over and over for 20 mins until it finally caught and idled and then I let it run for an hour or so and then it would start and just had to do that a few more times...

I dunno if that would work, but rebuilds are no easy ticket at first.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Well,
I'm betting your plugs are now fowled beyond.

This is what mine did. It turned out that the oil I used just super contaminated them. SO much that they were wet and wouldn't spark.

I then towed the car around in gear and it wouldn't run.

I slapped in some new plugs and towed it and it kicked right over.

Once you do that set your hard idle screw(on back of TB it's a 8mm nut and screw).

I ended up having a friend get a brick and carefully placing it on the gas pedal while I tuned the idle.

Right now it idles around 1200rpm but has only run for 1 1/2 hours so far.

Sponge Bob Square Pants

Pull start.

Amur_

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/break-in.html

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

My dad was like "that doesn't sound right to me. A new engine not starting up" I then said go to my engine builders website!lol

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

okay, i think i'll try the new plugs, i was planning on picking some up on my way home t/w anyway, so I think that may do it.. i'll post and let everyone know what happens Thanks!

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Don't pull start it. Quite dangerous as you could easily ram the vehicle in front...Push start it, and then let it run. The seals need to bed in. This could take some time if you used Mazda apex seals and used housings. You'll go through a few sets of plugs, but after about 40 minutes or so, you'll get to the point where you can start it with the starter.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like sound advice, Aaron Cake. I've followed the aformentioned advice, and bought a new set of NGKs, today. I had to use the plug wires from my eclipse (only ~2000k on them), because although advance auto had 2 different types of NGK (both leading and trailing sets), noone around here had wires.. tis okay.

The good news: I've successfully gotten the car to turn over countless times, now! It keeps stalling, but i'm only pausing long enough to let the starter cool down!!

I'll keep you guys posted, thank you again for all the support and good advice i've gotten.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Here's what i've found.
It will now start every time i turn the car over. It will give me a good 5 seconds of life, at about 2500 RPM. I even have throttle control (although i haven't gone about 3500 RPM yet). It will stall after that, which is sorta what i expected.

What i've found though, is while it's @ 2500 RPM, the timing is advanced, ~ 1 inch to the left of the mark. this only works using the T1 spark plug wire. The L1 spark plug wire shows nothing..

when should the Leadings kick on?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like the CAS is one tooth off....Running like crap I assume?

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure if you'd technically call it "running", as it's only for 5 seconds or so at a time, i'm going to try to adjust the CAS, though, see if that fixes it

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Hey Aaron - It stalls at pretty much exactly 5 seconds almost every time.. any sensor or anything like that you know of that would make a engine stall after about that time?

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

OK I'm trying to figure out the timing part on mine as well.

Now what does the initial set coupler do? Prevent reatarding or something?

My car ran yesterday but had no throttle response and when I brought it up to 2500 and let off it dropped and shut down.

I tried checking timing by having some one turnign the starter over and it looked to be at 25 degrees. Now I have since restabbed it to the timing mark (5degree yellow mark).

It won't even start when I pull start it now. I also put in new plugs.

Now when I stabbed it according to the timing light(set to 5 degrees) it is no where near those indentations at the bottom of the CAS.

What's up w/ this? I have never done timing EVER on a piston or rotary.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

I think for an intial start, you're getting too technical to get the timing to work, just set the yellow mark on the main pulley to the pin on the water pump housing. now, take out the CAS, line up the raised line right above the driven gear, with the divet in the driven gear.. make sure you're not accidently doing it to the set pin that runs straight through the gear. when you're done, make sure to slide the CAS straight back in, without letting the driven gear rotate much..

Here is what the CAS should like like before you put it in: http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=28714 (thanks to Hailers for that picture).
According to the book, I think there's a +- 3 degree variance, so it only needs to be close.

Try that once... I'm trying to use a timing light, but without it idling for longer than 5 seconds, i don't think i'm going to get it to do much good

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Awesome. that's the pic i was lkooking for.

so i did have the cas set right. I'll restab it today.

Also Aaron. I HAVE to pull start it. I have a new starter in the car and have a battery charger on it at the same time. The car will 10 out of 10 times flood trying this starting method.

I have t4ied to push start it but in a place where everything is flat it's hard to get enough speed to kick it over enough. That and 100` sun is a bitch to do heavy pushing in. I just use the car to start the engine and then I put the clutch in and use the Ebrake to stop.

White_FC

My name isn't Aaron, however I might be able to offer some assistanve...
This sounds exactly like the fuel pump switch in the AFM..
There is a jumper you can jump ( ) near the DRIVERS shock tower (hint, passenger side for you americans...) that will make the relay always 'on'.

If it starts/runs after this, look into why the AFM isn't switching it on instead. Don't drive around like this unless you have to.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Digi7ech - Hope it helps you on your journey, it helped on mine

White_FC - Sounds like a plan, i'm going to see if I can find the jumper I guess it's okay, that you answered, even though your name isn't Aaron...

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Hey, i was just out looking, is it the green plug with three contacts? (It's the one right below that one relay). I can't find anything in the FSM about it... If it is that one, which ones do i jumper?

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!


MY CAR HAS BEEN IDLING FOR 5 MINUTES UNDER IT'S OWN POWER, AT EXACTLY 1000 RPM!!!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

White_FC

Three pronged connector?
Hmm sure that wasn't the TPS? another reason that it may not have been idleing at all....

The one I was talking about was a two pronged one i THINK...

I stand to be corrected. I would run outside and check but alas, my car no long has the stock computer loom anywhere in sight..

Where is this conncector you found? is your TPS hooked up properly?

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

OK I restabbed it to that exact pictire of the CAS.

I got it to start and it's running right now.

I got the timing now.
Please tell me if I did it wrong.

I put the initial set coupler looped and checked the leading 1 timing.

I pushed the CAS all the way over to try and get it near the markings.

The timing light says it is at about 23degrees right now.
It is idling at 1250RPM.

SO I need to put it one tooth back right?So it will get over to 5 degrees right? Or is it higher because it's idling at 1250 and not 750?

Thx!

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

You got it to start too SWEET!!

I think that 23 degrees is still a bit too far... Although it will advance as rpms increased.. but that sounds too high.. try kicking it back down a notch.

i don't have a timing gun that displays degrees, so mine is all guess, although i have my engine idling at 1000 RPMs now, and my timing is dead on for that...

Congrats again!

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

White FC - you were right, it was a two prong connector, it was just buried a bit down the line, so i had to dig for it.. I've taken it on a 10 mile test run already, and she's doing great!

White_FC

Ok, then there must be something wrong with your AFM, and/or it's wiring.

Try and swap in a known working one, see if that lets your start it without worry.

Just leaving the jumper connected will make the fuel pump run 100% of the time the ignition is on.
Not a very safe thing to be doing.