Hybrid turbo nightmare Ch. 3: Back to stock turbo... and Ch 4 blown motor
Alright...
So I've got around 8k miles on an $900 Atkins kit... Do I need new springs? I know for a fact that I want to get new apex, side and corner seals, but do I need to buy new springs?
I'm for sure buying new apex springs, but do I really need the others?
Also, I don't think it's necessary to get new oil seals (anyone?)
Do I need to replace the front and rear main seals if they're 8k miles old?
Screw the thermal pellet... I'm not switching it, lol.
Frikk', I just want to go down to Atkins and ask 'em what I need... I've had some seriously great help before, it's just they're supposedly getting scandalous now... lol.
So I've got around 8k miles on an $900 Atkins kit... Do I need new springs? I know for a fact that I want to get new apex, side and corner seals, but do I need to buy new springs?
I'm for sure buying new apex springs, but do I really need the others?
Also, I don't think it's necessary to get new oil seals (anyone?)
Do I need to replace the front and rear main seals if they're 8k miles old?
Screw the thermal pellet... I'm not switching it, lol.
Frikk', I just want to go down to Atkins and ask 'em what I need... I've had some seriously great help before, it's just they're supposedly getting scandalous now... lol.
Originally Posted by dDuB
And do NOT use their springs! Their springs, as stated on their site, are for stock n/a non-nitrous engines or stock TII engines with stock boost levels. I've seen them wear fast too and flatten out for turbo guys, n/a is usually okay.
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Kirkland, WA
Springs should be fine if there's only 8k miles, but there are specs in the FSM for checking with a caliper if you want to be sure.
**** your apex springs might be fine too, the ones still there (might've lost a few in the rear).
8k oil seals should be fine so long as you just leave them where they site, dont try taking the control rings out, you might slice them or screw them, I know I have
Front/rear seals should be fine too.
Yep keep your thermal pellet, never has to be replaced
Anything in doubt, check the FSM for the specs. Also check your bearings while everything is out, might as well, and if you see a bunch of copper replace them, you'll thank yourself later. Stock bearings are like 20 bucks a piece and Atkins pressed mine (race bearings) in and out for free, Dan's a really nice guy.
**** your apex springs might be fine too, the ones still there (might've lost a few in the rear).
8k oil seals should be fine so long as you just leave them where they site, dont try taking the control rings out, you might slice them or screw them, I know I have
Front/rear seals should be fine too.
Yep keep your thermal pellet, never has to be replaced
Anything in doubt, check the FSM for the specs. Also check your bearings while everything is out, might as well, and if you see a bunch of copper replace them, you'll thank yourself later. Stock bearings are like 20 bucks a piece and Atkins pressed mine (race bearings) in and out for free, Dan's a really nice guy.
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
Originally Posted by eriksseven
I wonder if Steve knows that, haha.
Originally Posted by eriksseven
Look at it this way. Ever since I've had my TII up and running and being modded, it's NEVER ran right. It's ALWAYS been slow and unimpressive (at least using another similarly modded TII as a comparison).
The N/A rotors have never been a big "wow" factor until yesterday...
You're right though, I've always discounted the N/A rotors as doing nothing significant... People always say that they create more low-end and help the turbo spool quicker etc., but something's ALWAYS been wrong with my setup... So I just pushed the significance aside.
My buddy who's more experienced/responsible than me (lol) has a nearly identical setup (using 9:4's, same porting etc.) but he got the R-tek 1.7 chip... Oops. LOL.
I had the SAFC set to +5% from 4k RPM's to 8k RPM's. This is with a Walbro 255 and Greddy 720's, running 13psi (max) on the stock turbo.
I guess we know what the limit's are using 9:4's without any more 'control'.
(I should've got the R-tek...)
Whatever, I'll ship out an ECU this Saturday for the R-tek mod.
I'm probably going to be facing a break-in period, so it's not like I'm in any hurry, lol.
The N/A rotors have never been a big "wow" factor until yesterday...
You're right though, I've always discounted the N/A rotors as doing nothing significant... People always say that they create more low-end and help the turbo spool quicker etc., but something's ALWAYS been wrong with my setup... So I just pushed the significance aside.
My buddy who's more experienced/responsible than me (lol) has a nearly identical setup (using 9:4's, same porting etc.) but he got the R-tek 1.7 chip... Oops. LOL.
I had the SAFC set to +5% from 4k RPM's to 8k RPM's. This is with a Walbro 255 and Greddy 720's, running 13psi (max) on the stock turbo.
I guess we know what the limit's are using 9:4's without any more 'control'.
(I should've got the R-tek...)
Whatever, I'll ship out an ECU this Saturday for the R-tek mod.
I'm probably going to be facing a break-in period, so it's not like I'm in any hurry, lol.
so you were just like, "well, +5% on the safc sounds good to me!!!"
..... sell the safc, get some 8.5 rotors, get the rtek7 ecu, and leave it running about 11-12 and make 230whp and be happy.
Originally Posted by dDuB
Springs should be fine if there's only 8k miles, but there are specs in the FSM for checking with a caliper if you want to be sure.
**** your apex springs might be fine too, the ones still there (might've lost a few in the rear).
8k oil seals should be fine so long as you just leave them where they site, dont try taking the control rings out, you might slice them or screw them, I know I have
Front/rear seals should be fine too.
Yep keep your thermal pellet, never has to be replaced
Anything in doubt, check the FSM for the specs. Also check your bearings while everything is out, might as well, and if you see a bunch of copper replace them, you'll thank yourself later. Stock bearings are like 20 bucks a piece and Atkins pressed mine (race bearings) in and out for free, Dan's a really nice guy.
**** your apex springs might be fine too, the ones still there (might've lost a few in the rear).
8k oil seals should be fine so long as you just leave them where they site, dont try taking the control rings out, you might slice them or screw them, I know I have
Front/rear seals should be fine too.
Yep keep your thermal pellet, never has to be replaced
Anything in doubt, check the FSM for the specs. Also check your bearings while everything is out, might as well, and if you see a bunch of copper replace them, you'll thank yourself later. Stock bearings are like 20 bucks a piece and Atkins pressed mine (race bearings) in and out for free, Dan's a really nice guy.
I'll post up what I decide to do.
Originally Posted by jacobcartmill
so you were just like, "well, +5% on the safc sounds good to me!!!"
..... sell the safc, get some 8.5 rotors, get the rtek7 ecu, and leave it running about 11-12 and make 230whp and be happy.
..... sell the safc, get some 8.5 rotors, get the rtek7 ecu, and leave it running about 11-12 and make 230whp and be happy.
LOL. That was exactly my mind-set. You know, for cross reference I thought about "all the people out there who buy 720's and a fuel pump with NO control and max out the stock turbo". I seriously left the 9:4's out of the equation... lol. My car's been so dissapointing (from my vantage) that I had completely discounted the 9:4's as being anything special.
LOL, STFU, 230whp my ***... LOL
You need to take a break.
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
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From: Kirkland, WA
Yah, 230whp would be nice... if it was all motor n/a... 
If, and when, I build my first turbo motor, it'll be with 9.4:1 rotors. **** I already got it planned out AND have the rotors sitting on my shelf
Hmph, funny how I'm not even done with my current build-up/project and I'm already planning another. This one wont be for a long while, though.
If, and when, I build my first turbo motor, it'll be with 9.4:1 rotors. **** I already got it planned out AND have the rotors sitting on my shelf
Hmph, funny how I'm not even done with my current build-up/project and I'm already planning another. This one wont be for a long while, though.
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
I got a >20k housing that is practically perfect, not sure I want to sell that one its too nice heh, and then I have 2 s4 n/a rotor housings that are just fine. I was worried about them at first because they have some wear lines on the spark plug side, but I showed pics to Kevin Landers and Kahren and described it to them. Apparently on s4 housings these type of wear marks are normal and occur before the chrome flaking comes. Plus you can hardly feel the marks, definitely cannot catch a fingernail (not even close) on them.
Perfectly useable as far as I can tell and both Kevin and Kahren indicated to me.
Then I have some good old Hayes rotary rebuild housings too
Huge amounts of chrome flaking, worn as ****, should last about 10-20k more miles
Perfectly useable as far as I can tell and both Kevin and Kahren indicated to me.
Then I have some good old Hayes rotary rebuild housings too
Huge amounts of chrome flaking, worn as ****, should last about 10-20k more miles
LOL, don't want the Hayes housings!
haha, are you sure about not selling that one mint housing? Then again, it might be out of my price range... lol.
I've got a little "litigation" coming up, so most of my hard-earned cash is going to have to go to that... (ouch)
haha, are you sure about not selling that one mint housing? Then again, it might be out of my price range... lol.
I've got a little "litigation" coming up, so most of my hard-earned cash is going to have to go to that... (ouch)
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
Hmm, I might be willing to part with it. I'll think about it and you go ahead and take care of your litigation deal and we can talk after. BTW I read about that in the lounge, that really sucks!! I can't believe how BS that seems.
Anyways, here are some teaser pics of the housing
Anyways, here are some teaser pics of the housing
ohhh... A sight to behold...
Well, my next court date isn't until October 4th, so I'll definitely have the TII up and boosting by then.
What do you use to remove the flywheel?
I ask this, because Steve's dad made this sweet 'toothed' deal that bolts into the 'end-plate' and locks the flywheel in place while you crank on it... I can't get it until Friday.
I want to crack that sucker open a.s.a.p...
Well, my next court date isn't until October 4th, so I'll definitely have the TII up and boosting by then.
What do you use to remove the flywheel?
I ask this, because Steve's dad made this sweet 'toothed' deal that bolts into the 'end-plate' and locks the flywheel in place while you crank on it... I can't get it until Friday.
I want to crack that sucker open a.s.a.p...
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
Heh, well... I just use a 400 lb/ft impact gun
Zips the nut right off.
If I need the flywheel held still, I usually just grab a big/sturdy bolt and stick it between the counterweight and a tension bolt head.
Zips the nut right off.
If I need the flywheel held still, I usually just grab a big/sturdy bolt and stick it between the counterweight and a tension bolt head.
man, that SUCKS about your luck!
yah, when I blow this motor up, I'm rebuilding the 2 s5 cores I have laying around in my garage, porting. etc.
230whp = teh ***!
my car made 244.6RWHP at 7PSI. Stock ports. Hybrid turbo.
I can't /wait/ for 17psi.. but I need more fuel and more i/c first!
don't get 720's... go straight for the big guns, 1000's or 1600's. youc an always turn them down but 720's really suck if you will want more than 250rwhp, you'll need bigger injectors.
my car is tuned pretty rich.. 10.8:1 AFR's under boost. I'm running 12PSI midrange now and it drops to 8 by redline, think I need a stiffer WG spring.
While you have it apart you should streetport it, then put the hybrid back on!
I like my JDM engine with 9.0:1 rotors, yay for 8000rpm redline
yah, when I blow this motor up, I'm rebuilding the 2 s5 cores I have laying around in my garage, porting. etc.
230whp = teh ***!
my car made 244.6RWHP at 7PSI. Stock ports. Hybrid turbo.
I can't /wait/ for 17psi.. but I need more fuel and more i/c first!
don't get 720's... go straight for the big guns, 1000's or 1600's. youc an always turn them down but 720's really suck if you will want more than 250rwhp, you'll need bigger injectors.
my car is tuned pretty rich.. 10.8:1 AFR's under boost. I'm running 12PSI midrange now and it drops to 8 by redline, think I need a stiffer WG spring.
While you have it apart you should streetport it, then put the hybrid back on!
I like my JDM engine with 9.0:1 rotors, yay for 8000rpm redline
Originally Posted by Terrh
230whp = teh ***!
my car made 244.6RWHP at 7PSI. Stock ports. Hybrid turbo.
my car made 244.6RWHP at 7PSI. Stock ports. Hybrid turbo.
Originally Posted by Terrh
don't get 720's... go straight for the big guns, 1000's or 1600's. youc an always turn them down but 720's really suck if you will want more than 250rwhp, you'll need bigger injectors.
Originally Posted by Terrh
my car is tuned pretty rich.. 10.8:1 AFR's under boost. I'm running 12PSI midrange now and it drops to 8 by redline, think I need a stiffer WG spring.
Originally Posted by Terrh
While you have it apart you should streetport it, then put the hybrid back on!
Originally Posted by Terrh
I like my JDM engine with 9.0:1 rotors, yay for 8000rpm redline
erik, don't listen to people who post **** like this that i just quoted above ^
if you plan on running more than 250whp, or any kind of hybrid stock turbo, do not use the stock ECU. i wouldnt even use the rtek7 with a hybrid turbo...
save up a little money and get a haltech and a stock turbo, hell, even keep your hybrid if you wanna make 300+ whp or so... but those stock ecu's and reflashed fc ecu's arent made for bigger turbos.
if you plan on running more than 250whp, or any kind of hybrid stock turbo, do not use the stock ECU. i wouldnt even use the rtek7 with a hybrid turbo...
save up a little money and get a haltech and a stock turbo, hell, even keep your hybrid if you wanna make 300+ whp or so... but those stock ecu's and reflashed fc ecu's arent made for bigger turbos.
the stock ECU cant handle 12 psi on 9.4:1 rotors
i kept the stock ecu up to 9 psi, and it was fine, but after that i had problems. at 14psi i had severe detonation. the 14 was an accident but i was lucky i didnt blow the motor. if you want to go over 10 psi, get a standalone. if you dont have the money, get a megasquirt, theyre cheap and work well.
i kept the stock ecu up to 9 psi, and it was fine, but after that i had problems. at 14psi i had severe detonation. the 14 was an accident but i was lucky i didnt blow the motor. if you want to go over 10 psi, get a standalone. if you dont have the money, get a megasquirt, theyre cheap and work well.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: NY, MA, MI, OR, TX, and now LA or AZ!
Originally Posted by jacobcartmill
that has nothing to do with the wastegate spring.
