big_tony

Hi guys, I am new to the world of tuneing(especially roary engines) and wanted to get an fc3s. But, people keep telling me how the engines are very delicate and constantly are blowing. I really wanted to know how true this is, and what the main problems with the car are. these are probably stupid questions, sorry, but I would really like some help. I would also like to know what the weakest part of the engine is. Thanks!!!!!

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

um, because im a nice guy, im gunna give you a heads up, youre gunna get flamed like crazy. let me be the one to tell you a few things.
1) all engines are weak to a certain point
2) rotarys are awsome because of the mammoth potential they have, although things do seem to fail quite a bit (**** keeps faling on me) they are solid engines IF you do maintainance.
3) rotaries burn oil, becuase oil is injected into the housing to lubricate the rotor, so there is a potential "wak point", but if you are around them for a little while, you learn things.
4) i would suggest to not post stuff like your post, just keep your eyes open, read, read, read, re-read, and keep your mind open. i have learned soooo much about my car in the short amount of itme ive had just by listening to people, looking at rebuilds, watching and learning.

peace

FCKing1995

iTrader: (3)

As long as its tuned within safe limits for your setup and you make sure to keep it maintained, they arent all that unreliable like some people claim they are. Not to say that they are always that way, but its not the same thing for everybody. Its not a real yes or no question. Sometimes it takes playing around to see how your setup should be tuned.

Id say the weakest part of the engine are any of the seals. Mainly the apex seal will cause you the most greif

gabe30

thats generally every engine you deal with.. tuning is safer on a piston engine.. you generally have to be somewhat intellectual with these things.. not really.. haha

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

It's not that they're fragile, it's just that they are more sensitive to stupid mistakes. If you grab a stock TII with 100K on it, then crank the boost to 12 PSI without upgrading the fuel system, you're going to blow it up. But if you pay attention to fuel and spark then running more boost (and a larger turbo) is no big deal.

Really, in my experience, the real problem with a rotary is the owner. Either they don't have the knowledge, or they are too cheap to do it properly. Not spending the money where you should will bite you in the butt, and you'll then be spending the the money to rebuild the engine.

To answer your basic questions, there is a lot of information in the FAQ thread at the top of this forum. It has how to buy guides which cover basic problems, and answers to almost every question a new user would ask.

You know what really grinds my gears? Posts like this. There is absolutely no reason in hell why this person would get flamed for asking a simple question. If that's what people expect around here, then obviously I am not doing my job and I need to be a little more eager to hit the ban button...If you see this behaviour, please use the "report to moderator" function and it will be dealt with.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

theres a video you need to search for. it has a TII redlining (9k RPM) in neutral for like 9 minutes. straight. the car still ran but it blew a seal or something and the exhaust caught on fire. id like to see a 100,000+ mile V6 or V8 last 9 minutes at 9k RPM.

MrSector9

I seen a toyota corrola (early 90's) last 12 minutes with no oil in it reved up against the factory limiter.

I agree with aaron totally.. Another sense that it is alot like a 2 stroke... good engine but if you make a mistake with fuel you are going to burn it up.

package

had close to 150m on my 91 rx7 when I replaced it with a rebuilt thats a pretty good run, as far as i'm concerned

Stanis

iTrader: (2)

I've had my 87 gxl since August of 2000 and the only *major* things that I had to do was change brake rotors & pads, alternator, starter, and tires. Of course fluids, plugs, wires, etc, are a given. The odo reads 110K miles and I have confidence that I can go hop in the car and make a couple hundred mile trip without any problems at all. It's all how the owner treats and maintains his car.

On the other hand, I blew the motor in my TII. Completely my fault as far as I can tell. I skipped out on upgrading the fuel system and now have to pay for it. Do be warned that you have to pay to play. You can safely tune a rotary and have plenty of horsepower, but you have to do it right. Generally speaking, you can't just go bolt on exhaust and intake and then go romp on it (applies to turbos more than NA). You have to follow that with some extra goodies like an upgraded fuel system.

There are always the extreme cases that lay a bad name to the face of the rotary engine. For every blown rotary motor, there are so many more that are running just fine. Take airplanes for example. How many times do we hear about this tragic accident on the news? Ok, how many times do we hear about the thousands of successful flights everyday? I don't see any prime time news segments that say there lots of safe flights

All I can advise you to do is plan on spending several hours a week just reading on the forum and soaking in others experiences. You will be very surprised at what you learn. I don't post very much, but I lerk around the forum everynight for about 45 minutes to an hour.

REVERE

I now have two fc's, one of which i have had for over 2 years and never had any problems with it at all.
just like others have said i think some rotary owners are "penny wise pound stupid"
thinking they can save a little money buy leaving support systems stock on heavely modded cars. If you let them warm up, cool down and maticulasly check fluids you will be fine

Jollyone

I'm posting this for some good karma so my tech question might get answered also.
First of all, I'm shocked that this debate even exists on this forum. I recently raced a 13B RX-7 in the ITS class of the SCCA and this car dominated for years due to the engines reliability under race conditions. I regulary revved mine to 8000 RPM, overheated it plenty. The AVERAGE rpm around the track at Lime Rock for instance was probably 5500. Mostly when you look at the tach its around 7000. These were stock engines. The one problem I did have was the ceramic cracked off a stock spark plug and took out an apex seal once. We used to use a combo of premix and oil injection, plugging two of the oil lines.
Guys used to win all the time running junkyard engines. The rotary is th e most durable engine make aside from maybe a true turbine. These stories of blowing rotaries you hear on this forum are from overboosted, mistuned, and probably JDM questionable history (drifted by some jap nut) or engines rebuilt with used rotor housings (NOT a good idea)...
The problems that do exist are twofold: the thermowax pellet DOES fail on older 13Bs and cause oil seal failure due overheating of the oil etc. And the apex seals DO wear out at around 120k miles or so and the engines start to burn crazy amounts of oil. But believe me, up to that point the things are basically indestructible no matter how you drive. When I used to heel and toe downshift at the end of the front straight at LRP I saw the tach bounce off of 8000 rpm all the time and never worried at all. They are almost impossible to overrev. I mean I abused the **** out of quite a few of them and did very well on the track. The RX7 handling is legendary and the engine is also . Hence the cult you see here. Be picky getting yourself a car and definately enlist the help of a savant from somewhere. have fun, we all do!!

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

Good, post. I like. My experience has been that the engine has far outlasted my car. I had a really bad accident, but the engine still was running so I had to shut it off. I eventually got a roller and dropped the engine in and hooked it up and it started on the first try. I personally don't think a piston engine would be able to have survived the accident let alone start up as reliably as mine did.

Turbo II

iTrader: (1)

I've never had a piston engine survive what I give my rotaries... well maybe one but that was built to do so. Then again, I haven't had a piston engine in quite a few years hah!

Anyway, great engines. Just read up and do the stuff you're suppose to as said.

Jollyone

a few more ideas..
one of the reasons these cars are so popular to the underground car scene is there are certain "formulas" that have been VERY tried and tested and enjoyed. There are a few things to do in the handling department, and zowie, you have one of the best handling cars in the world, certainly the most bang for your buck in the world. On the racetrack the RX7 is a very forgiving awsome handling car. The ITS class is restricted to mostly stock components, including brakes, and while I did heat fracture a few sets of brake rotors, they did a satisfactory job at most tracks. The transmission we used to use a 626 trans, I highly recommend this swap to anybody, its tougher and is a no hassle bolt in. Third gear would go out from sloppy double clutching and grinding 3rd.
The only engine mods done were some guys used turbo rotor housings since they have larger exaust ports. Free exaust flow is the first and essential place to make rotary power. My stock conv did more than 140 MPH last year. Thats plenty. Bottom line is the rotary is a piece of engineering genius that can be driven hard. Of course we always drove a cool down lap.....
The reason the RX7 was so successful was because of attrition of the other car makes. No stock piston engine could last more than a few races before the valve train scattered or something. Guy in Alphas, BMWs and Z's were fast for a while but would always break. A properly prepared Porshe was hard to beat but the parts cost made it impossible. Mazda parts are cheap and durable. Long live the 13b

Jollyone

not to mention that the 13b made a lot less HP than the BMW's, Z's and Porsches but the RX would make up for the loss in the corners. It simply outhandled anything on the track in its class and still does to this day. Fun to drive fast

jonesfromindia

+1 for real life experience Jollyone.

ya im not gonna read everyones post, but just maintain your car. oil is a very important factor, change it every 3k, check it everytime you get gas(its not a habbit for me). Ez lube has a deal where they change your oil and withing 3kmi or 3months theyt will top off your oil. its totally awesome. me and an Rx8 take advantage of this lol.

but ya man, just get one make sure it looks good, less mileage the better. my personal preference is, unless you know who built it and know they did it right, dont buy i car with a rebuilt engine unless you plan to rebuild it just MY OPINION!

ps compression test it before you buy. do a search and you can find full detailed instructions on how to do it.

happy hunting!

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

how did you get a fwd trans to bolt to a rwd car? and the turbo exhaust ports are identical, they just do not have the diffusor in them like the na motors, but they are easily removable in the na housings anyway

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ok...


the mentions of the car and owner and or previous owners maintenance is the most important one. a properly working and maintained cooling system is #1 with these cars, #2 is tuning and modifications. with poorly planned or performed modifications any engine will not last very long but the rotary is less forgiving than most others with those errors.

a stock block 13B can handle well over 500WHP before it really need any upgrading, at those levels anyways you need to worry about blowing up differentials, breaking half shafts and/or transmissions.

the rotary only got its bad track record because of its age and abuse, most people are taking old 140k mile engines and upgrading turbos on them, performing inadequate fuel system mods and do not know a damn thing about AFRs, exhaust temps and timing curves. these self proclaimed "tuners" are what give the rotary a bad name though the engine itself can put most other engines to shame just by adding boost, fuel and freeing up some flow surrounding the motor and proper modifications and tuning.

take a look around for some of the rotary drag racing videos, those engines are not radically different than the ones you have in your car, the only difference might be hardened stat gears, blanaced/lightened rotors and a bit of a radical port job. the main things those drag engines have is proper fuel upgrades and tuning, the engine mods can be done for less than a few thousand dollars if you have the time and the ability.

that is all.