Mombodogs

Best club around. New to club and have serious questions. Just bought 1990
RX7, convertable six weeks ago,. Ran Like a champ. Fast. Oil change, new plugs, wires, filters, fluids, the whole nine yards. Suddenly the other day, rpms at start up shot to 6000 rpms, for 10 seconds, idled down, ran fine after. Back from store,
start up same , but this time with 3-4 white smoke out exhaust. Drove home, 2 miles, idle surging at lights and stop signs, not stalling. Coolant level, oil level, fine. no loss of either. Pressure good. Next day, same thing, only lots of smoke, shut her down. Dont want to hurt my new love. Have researched a lot of postings here, but havent seen quite this situation.l Been on this site for more than 10 hours in last few days, so I have looked for info. Any advice appreciated.
Will take it in if have to, but rather save the money and do it myself. Present for my sons 16th B-day, if It makes if that far, 2 weeks. Thanks,

The Dog, ruf ruf ruf

dr.jones63

Is your car automatic transmission?

u-looz

if you do end up taking in ... try to bring it to a 7 shop ... the dealer just wants your $. a good speed shop (that works on 7s) seem to care more about keeping a good rep with the people that help to keep there shop open. thats why dealer parts are often more $. on the other hand - about your car ... if that just started out of blue... it sounds like a seal faild... check to see what your OMP is doing. also have you checked for codes?

Mombodogs

Have checked the codes, even though check engine light was not on, and the codes were 12 and 18, TPS. Also, yes, it happened out of the blue and it is manual transmition.

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

sounds like you blew a coolent seal for sure, how many miles are on it?

Mombodogs

The car has 145, 000 miles on it. If I blew a coolant seal, wouldnt there be a significant loss of fluid? There has not been "Any" loss since this has happened. Is there a way to check further without damaging more, or is it already, if its the seal? What would the seal, just for my own knowledge, have to do with the high initial rpm at start up?

webmonk

You said the code pointed to TPS. Have you done the TPS checks yet? If your TPS is shot it could explain the erradic idling. There are a couple of different methods of testing. Try both.

I have some guesses about the white smoke, but I'll let the more experienced guys here handle that one for ya.

Mombodogs

I havent done anything with the TPS yet, I dont want to start the engine without getting some idea if I will damage the engine . If it is a coolant seal, engine rebuild, would I do any more damage by starting it? Got some of it torn down, but easy to put back to running status. Opinions?

webmonk

You won't need to start the engine to check the TPS. One method will require that you turn the key to "ON" but no starting is involved with the multimeter method. Check out this link: http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/TPS/tps.html

This won't solve ALL your problems, but it'll give you something to do while you're figuring out the bigger issues.

Mombodogs

Thanks for the input, headed out to do the TPS now. Hoping someone can give me a little more input on whether I can start without doing more damage. In the meantime, I have this car looking like the babe I knew it would. Hopefully, I can get a "simple fix before sons b-day, If not, him and I have something to do this summer. Fill up this thread with anything and everything, I can never learn enough about this car. Great site. Will always be here.

webmonk

Yeah, you're doing it right. Sometimes it's hit and miss here. If you want amatuer advice, here ya go:

If all your levels are good and all that's happening is rough idle and sputtering, I don't think you're going to do major damage by running it. My TII always starts fine and idles high when cold (it's supposed to do that until you put it in gear) and once it's warmed all the way up it idles fine. However, when it's in the space between cold and hot it surges, runs rough, and mine goes as far as to stall. (I currently suspect the BAC and/or my TPS.) From time to time I get white smoke too, but not much. That's probably a coolant leak, but it's small enough to not notice a big loss in fluid. I understand that the fix for the coolant seal is something just short of a rebuild and if that's the case then again, running it won't hurt you any more than you are now.


Hope that helps get you in the right direction, but keep in mind that I'm a computer programmer, NOT a mechanic. Now maybe someone knowledgeable will come through and correct everything I just told you.

Mombodogs

Thanks for the input. Running to the store and start to finish it off at 10:00. Hopefully get some more input on this, but your input is greatly apppreciated. Ill post what happens when Im done, Thanks.

Mombodogs

Engine smokes: Stop! Idles High: Stop! The 7 club responsive: Stop!
If Coolant seal let loose, can I damage more by doing tests running: Stop!

I'm sorry for having an attitude, but I'm at my wits end. I explained my problem here once and got little response. Granted , Im new, but was told this was this place to get a "straight" answer to my problem. I have gone through literally thousands of past threads, current, and Im guessing probably future, to no avail.
I know how to adjust the TPS,replaced O-2 sensor, coolant temp sensor, Oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, thermostat, EGR, plugs, wires, coolant. Have cleaned the throttle body, intake, checked for vaccum leaks, replaced fuses, (all good), but did that also.

I have a 1990, 7, vert, not turbo, manual, conv, stock everything, recently started idling past 5000 on warm up and blew white smoke out exhaust. Twice. Haven't started since. If coolant seal has gone, will I damage more by starting up and how can I really tell?

I appologize for the attitude, but 500 responses to a lady whose 5 quarts low on oil doesnt justify how highly recommended and intelligent your club really is. I have read, like I said, thousands of threads, and all that I am asking for is a little help. And by the way, its a site like this that makes me proud to be a , broken or not, 2nd generation, RX man.

Peace

RETed

I dunno what your previous Subject line was, but "Recommended, little respose" will not get the proper looks.
I would suggest putting up a better, more detailed subject line to get better responses?

Is that 5,000 RPM?
Something is amiss.
Check throttle cable tension - if it's too tight or binding, it will cause an abnormally high idle, if it is 5,000RPM's.

If coolant seal(s) is / are gone, your engine is toast.
I do not recommend trying to drive it.
If you're lucky, the engine hasn't warped...yet, and major internal parts are salvagable for a rebuild.

To confirm coolant seal is gone, you need to get the car to idle reasonably within spec - fix the high idle problem first.
Allow the car to idle - check coolant system for bubbles.
Alternately, you can pressure test the cooling system...if the system doesn't hold pressure (about 15psi) for at least several minutes, you know there's a compromise if your cooling system.


Like I said before, start with a more detailed Subject line.
This is a volunteer effort - it will help those who want to help you if you got a more detailed subject line.
I go through HUNDREDS and sometimes THOUSANDS of threads; I tend to ignore stuff like "Help!", "Need help!", "What do you think happened?", "What's wrong with my car / engine?"

If you did go through hours of reading, I'm surprised you didn't find reference to the coolant seal problem?
Either you're not doing efficient reading, or learn to use the search function more efficiently.
I'm sure if I punch if "coolant seal" in the search function and narrow it down to this 2nd gen section, I'm *sure* I'd come across helpful material that would mimic my suggestions to you above.


-Ted

Mombodogs

Thanks for the response Ted. Smokin Like a dog was what I started out with days ago. Lots of looks, little response. Maybe I am not correctly searching the threads as to my specific problem. I know that this is all on voluntary help, so maybe you could explain exactly how to do the search correctly, maybe I will find some more information, then could come back and ask for help if I cant find it. I meant no disrespect, and I am sorry If i came across that way.

Thanks, RUF RUF RUF

SureShot

Initial coolant seal failure usually has some additional symtoms:
Hard to start, catches & sputters, blows white smoke, then clears up & runs OK.
From your description, I'm not sure if that's what's your cause.

Here's a video of a pretty bad coolant leak>> link to video
If it is a coolant seal, try the "block weld" leak stop trick.
On NA's caught early it often works pretty good.
A stored engine with a coolant leak will rust up & not be rebuildable.

If it still smokes after it's warmed up, that would suggest worn out oil seals.

SureShot

I have not seen your initial thread on the way fast idle on start up.
If it idles normally after warm up, I would look at cleaning a sticking BAC.

Icemark

Crappy subjects/thread titles will get crappy (or few) responses. Make a detailed title and you will get more veiws and better responses.

Toss in a poor attitude and you will get fewer responses.

And remember you only want responses from people that actually have the correct answer. So if 100 people look at your thread because of the lame *** title, but no one answers, its because of those 100 people; none knew the correct answer. There are 20000 or so members on this board, so even 1000 veiws means nothing.

Threads merged. You don't need two threads on the same thing

WAYNE88N/A

That's what I was thinking. Pull the electrical plugs off of both the BAC and the air bypass valve, because 5K means a hell of a vac leak...See if there's any change after that.

You could try to pull the bottom plugs out of each rotor housing, then turn the engine over by hand (19mm or 3/4" socket on the front pulley bolt, CW direction, looking from the front), and see if any coolant comes out.

I would say go ahead and try to start her again. If you do have a coolant seal that crapped out, you need to get the water out of there before everything rusts up. Once you start it, go smell the smoke coming out of the exhaust. Coolant smell is unique...

RETed

It's next to impossible for the engine to idle that high due to a vacuum leak.
Even if the BAC valve was stuck open, it will only idle like 3k...maybe 4k max.
The AFM needs to be propped pretty far open for a vacuum leak to idle at 5kRPM.
It's more likely a stuck throttle plate due to a number of reasons - too tight throttle cable, too tight cruise control linkage, throttle body cruddy allowing throttle plates to stick open, debris jamming the throttle plates open not allowing them to close, etc.


-Ted

WAYNE88N/A

I agree it sounds farfetched, Ted. It would take both valves being stuck open to do it (the BAC wide open will get you a bit further than 3K on its own- I know this to be true on my car).

Just suggested it for troubleshooting, man, to start eliminating things...Maybe he'll find one of the larger hoses off when he's messing with the valves, who knows?

JamesBong

Hey Mombo, Some of us aren't on here 24 hr's a day, and there's alot of new posts to read,so you have to be patient for a response. Like Ted said, a more descriptive title helps. "Smokin like a dog" just sounds like you're tokin up.

The rev to 5000 at startup sounds really high. These cars rev to 3000, but as mentioned before, if your throttle cable is sticking, it might shoot higher. Also check your cruise control cable if so equipped. As far as the coolant leak, do you see oil in the coolant or vice verca? I had a less than pinhole leak once, and the problem could only be detected at a shop with equipment to analyse the coolant.

Mombodogs

My sincerest appologies for the attitude. I have checked all vacuum lines , no visible holes or cracks. Have cleaned throttle body, valves, housing. Have taken off all electrical connections to BAC , AFM, some of these connections were so corroated, I dont know if they were making contact. Replaced plugs and wires, all fluids, no oil in coolant , or vice versa, filters changed, whoever put plugs in last put all leading plugs in, no trailing, dont know how much that affects engine. Will try some of the suggestions you have given. Appreciate all of you great advice. Will update as soon as I know, hopefullly tomorrow. One more thing, what is the best way to tell if my cats are plugged? I live in CA and need smog bs. Thanks/

Icemark

You'll have no power at all and you will have no smoke at all

Mombodogs

Ok, again, my appologies for being so rude. I appreciate all the help. Update from last post. Pulled apart elec. conect. for every plug visible, some corroded, some fine. Cleaned all connections.. Tested BAC, AWS, TPScold, 2.0 , dark, do today after warm up.Idle has gone down some, cable not stuck. New error code is 8, AFM. Manual doesnt explain check. Info? Regarding smoke. Not as much at start up, but still very noticeabe. No oil in coolant or vice versa, pulled EGI fuse, cranked motor over, pulled leading plugs, no fluid, or oil., but person who changed plugs and wires, switched them, correct now. Will do myself from now on. Odor of exhaust smells like good old exhaust, just white. After warmup, drove about 3 miles, smoke totallly gone. Shut off, waited ten minutes, start up, smoking heavy , then goes away. Also, sorry folks, error code 12 & 18 , will do that today TPS. After warmup, the erratic idle, I noticed double throttle diaphram rod was in, and out. Sorry for the novel. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Love the car, know 1000 times more now than before and still stupid. But getting smarter. Thanks