HELP! Rough idle,smoke..new motor..SAME PROBLEM?
02-13-06, 01:00 AM
#26
Originally Posted by n/a-luvr
I'm wondering if there was damage to the turbo caused by rapid cooling from the water? I'm not a big turbo guru but are rx7 turbos oil feed? (why not, every other turbo is...) If you used the old turbo then maybe oil is leaking through the casing, down into the block causing the combustion temp to drop thereby giving you that extra gas. It would explain the smoke too.
Afm's should be watertight. Have you cleaned your connectors? ~rich
Afm's should be watertight. Have you cleaned your connectors? ~rich
...uh, no.
02-13-06, 01:06 AM
#27
certified nutz and boltz
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: myrtle beach, sc
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
It's cool that you're trying to help the guy and all, but...
...uh, no.
...uh, no.
02-13-06, 01:12 AM
#28
There is no way water could make it into the boost sensor if the hose were properly installed, because the engine is pulling air from the sensor inward (vacuum, by definition), not trying to push water outward..and even if it were (under boost, for instance), the engine could not physically run if the intake runners were full of water, which is what would be required to get water into the boost sensor line. Besides, the car will idle pretty much the same regardless of boost sensor input...including unplugging it altogether. IT only handles timing retard in higher rpms and under boost.
02-13-06, 02:29 AM
#29
certified nutz and boltz
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: myrtle beach, sc
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I knew that about it's engine feed but figured since it references to ambient air pressure mebbe there was a vent or something on it. Thanks for the info. ~rich
02-13-06, 06:42 PM
#30
Admitted 'rexaholic'
"IT only handles timing, retard, in higher rpms and under boost."
Geeez, Kev, he's just trying to help, no reason to call him a retard....
Seriously, though, any luck getting it running?
Geeez, Kev, he's just trying to help, no reason to call him a retard....
Seriously, though, any luck getting it running?
02-13-06, 07:33 PM
#31
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
Man, I could have this thing running in under an hour if it were in front of me.
Have you changed plugs? If not, do so now. Remove the old ones, perform the deflood procedure on my website, and once the old gas is purged and a good bit of oil or atf is injected, put in the new plugs and see if it fires up. Fouled plugs can make one run really rough or not at all.
Also, come to think of it. This is an engine swap. Perhaps the front pullies got mixed up, and the marks are no longer accurate (don't ask, just trust me). You should consider finding a new true TDC mark and find timing from there (5 degrees after the mark is leading timing, which is the mark you are supposed to align to when you stab the CAS and set timing). To do so, remove the rear sparkplugs. Using a mirror and light, align any apex seal in one hole, make a mark on the pulley, then repeat for the other hole. Now find the halfway point between those 2 marks on the shortest side of the pulley. Make a mark. This is your true TDC. Add about 4-5mm to this mark (after TDC will be on the counterclockwise side of the mark you made) and there is your new timing mark. Now realign your CAS to this mark and see if it is better.
Have you changed plugs? If not, do so now. Remove the old ones, perform the deflood procedure on my website, and once the old gas is purged and a good bit of oil or atf is injected, put in the new plugs and see if it fires up. Fouled plugs can make one run really rough or not at all.
Also, come to think of it. This is an engine swap. Perhaps the front pullies got mixed up, and the marks are no longer accurate (don't ask, just trust me). You should consider finding a new true TDC mark and find timing from there (5 degrees after the mark is leading timing, which is the mark you are supposed to align to when you stab the CAS and set timing). To do so, remove the rear sparkplugs. Using a mirror and light, align any apex seal in one hole, make a mark on the pulley, then repeat for the other hole. Now find the halfway point between those 2 marks on the shortest side of the pulley. Make a mark. This is your true TDC. Add about 4-5mm to this mark (after TDC will be on the counterclockwise side of the mark you made) and there is your new timing mark. Now realign your CAS to this mark and see if it is better.
There is one thing else I should mention that came to mind last night. When I was doing the swap, I tore down the wiring harness when I was removing parts from the motor because the connector to the BAC and ACV were both in bad condition, the BAC was actually melted. I traced the wires back and they all looked ok, didnt see any burns or anything. Do you think that there could still be a problem because of this? If the BAC failed, it would still run wouldnt it? I installed new connectors.
Man...I wish you lived close by, I cant take the headache.
Last edited by rhythmfunk; 02-13-06 at 07:37 PM.
02-14-06, 06:45 PM
#32
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I forgot to add 2 things...There is new plugs in there. I I have tried cleaning out the fuel by removing the plugs with the fuel pump off and turning over the motor.
Also...in the beginning, when I thought it might be the TDC/Timing. I pulled the 2 rear plugs and verified that the marks were correct. I didnt have a mirror, so I did it a getto way...I used a large copper wire, carefully/slowly turned the rotor to ID its location at the top and bottom plug holes and it looked correct with the markings of the pulley.
Also...in the beginning, when I thought it might be the TDC/Timing. I pulled the 2 rear plugs and verified that the marks were correct. I didnt have a mirror, so I did it a getto way...I used a large copper wire, carefully/slowly turned the rotor to ID its location at the top and bottom plug holes and it looked correct with the markings of the pulley.
02-25-06, 07:28 PM
#33
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well...same old story but perhaps a little light.
I checked all pins at the ECU and the only things that caught my eye are these: Intake Air temp tested w/4 volts...thought it shoud be no more than 2 volts.
Each ground tested as .002 rather than 0..this might be nothing though and when I ohm them putting ground to the kick panel...I get 20 on each pin...it this back grounds?
I checked the injectors, they pulse correctly when the CAS is manually rotated and they all have 12 volts.
I get 2.2k at the water thermo sensor and 2.5 volts at the ECU.
I used a mirror, varified top dead center (TDC) and timing was correct.
I did actually find the AFM was keeping the fuel pump running while the key was in the "On" position, the door didnt have enough force to keep it closed. I opened the top and increased the tension spring by 2 notches and now have a open circuit...fuel pump is not running when the door is closed. The resistance on the sweep looks ok as well based on the S4 manual.
Last.....I retested the fuel pressure after this, it is around 38 psi (tee'd) whith pump on, then quickly drops 10 psi when off and sits at 20 psi for some time before completely dropping. I suspect this is a indication of a bad fuel pressure regulator. I hope this is my problem. I will be posting another thread to get feedback on FPR symptoms before I go buy a new one.
I you have any feedback or sugestions...please send them, thanks!
I checked all pins at the ECU and the only things that caught my eye are these: Intake Air temp tested w/4 volts...thought it shoud be no more than 2 volts.
Each ground tested as .002 rather than 0..this might be nothing though and when I ohm them putting ground to the kick panel...I get 20 on each pin...it this back grounds?
I checked the injectors, they pulse correctly when the CAS is manually rotated and they all have 12 volts.
I get 2.2k at the water thermo sensor and 2.5 volts at the ECU.
I used a mirror, varified top dead center (TDC) and timing was correct.
I did actually find the AFM was keeping the fuel pump running while the key was in the "On" position, the door didnt have enough force to keep it closed. I opened the top and increased the tension spring by 2 notches and now have a open circuit...fuel pump is not running when the door is closed. The resistance on the sweep looks ok as well based on the S4 manual.
Last.....I retested the fuel pressure after this, it is around 38 psi (tee'd) whith pump on, then quickly drops 10 psi when off and sits at 20 psi for some time before completely dropping. I suspect this is a indication of a bad fuel pressure regulator. I hope this is my problem. I will be posting another thread to get feedback on FPR symptoms before I go buy a new one.
I you have any feedback or sugestions...please send them, thanks!
02-26-06, 12:35 AM
#34
certified nutz and boltz
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: myrtle beach, sc
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm having a similar problem that just developed on my car EXCEPT the smoke. gas smell and rough running will only happen sometimes when I start it. It will also backfire with a ...pop-pop-pop-pop... when I rev it. Within a min or 2 it will run normal. Do you get backfires too? ~rich
02-26-06, 01:28 AM
#35
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by n/a-luvr
I'm having a similar problem that just developed on my car EXCEPT the smoke. gas smell and rough running will only happen sometimes when I start it. It will also backfire with a ...pop-pop-pop-pop... when I rev it. Within a min or 2 it will run normal. Do you get backfires too? ~rich
02-27-06, 12:45 PM
#36
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need a second openion...can someone please see my last reply regarding my recent results and see if all looks ok to you?
I also want to know if anyone else thinks I might need a new FPR
I also want to know if anyone else thinks I might need a new FPR
01-12-07, 04:38 PM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so was i , today i soldered a new water thermsosensor plug into the harness and it runs a lot better now , but it is still running rich and will not idle . i need to pull codes from the ecu tomorrow .
03-10-07, 07:05 AM
#40
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So it sounds like I should give an update to this thread, so here we go.
The car still does not run, but I may have that fixed in a day or two. The cars been sitting for awhile, I just gave up until recently and decided to go through everything again.
Since rechecking everything, I have found that the water temp switch on the radiator was bad (defaults ECU to below 17* map which mean rich mix), but all the pins on the ECU other than this, test ok including the thermo sensor at water pump.
Previously I had a bad AFM (door didnt shut all the way so fuel pump was always on), now with this corrected and the water temp switch, I am now able to get it running a few seconds, with starter fluid then dies. I think I now have everything right, but one simple thing....the intake.
I didnt put 2 and 2 together with the AFM. As I understand, the AFM has no role in starting, only running when RPMs are above 500, then it controls gas flow/mixture to motor. Well.....I dont have the intercooler connected, so...no vacuum there to open flap on the AFM once the engine starts, hince the reason it dies.
Ok, this right now is my theory, but I feel it to be a good one. I will post back in a few days after I am able to put it all back together and test it.
Wish me luck.
The car still does not run, but I may have that fixed in a day or two. The cars been sitting for awhile, I just gave up until recently and decided to go through everything again.
Since rechecking everything, I have found that the water temp switch on the radiator was bad (defaults ECU to below 17* map which mean rich mix), but all the pins on the ECU other than this, test ok including the thermo sensor at water pump.
Previously I had a bad AFM (door didnt shut all the way so fuel pump was always on), now with this corrected and the water temp switch, I am now able to get it running a few seconds, with starter fluid then dies. I think I now have everything right, but one simple thing....the intake.
I didnt put 2 and 2 together with the AFM. As I understand, the AFM has no role in starting, only running when RPMs are above 500, then it controls gas flow/mixture to motor. Well.....I dont have the intercooler connected, so...no vacuum there to open flap on the AFM once the engine starts, hince the reason it dies.
Ok, this right now is my theory, but I feel it to be a good one. I will post back in a few days after I am able to put it all back together and test it.
Wish me luck.
03-10-07, 08:17 AM
#41
wait
you don't have the intercooler connected? So air goes in through the TID, goes through some pipes, and then never makes it to the engine? On a system with an AFM you need to have EVERYTHING hooked up. You do realize that if you blow an intercooler pipe off under boost the car will just shut down right?
I've had a loose intake pipe on my nonturbo before and the car would start for a second and then shut off immediately.
you don't have the intercooler connected? So air goes in through the TID, goes through some pipes, and then never makes it to the engine? On a system with an AFM you need to have EVERYTHING hooked up. You do realize that if you blow an intercooler pipe off under boost the car will just shut down right?
I've had a loose intake pipe on my nonturbo before and the car would start for a second and then shut off immediately.
03-10-07, 09:41 AM
#42
It LIVES!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rhythmfunk
I bought a 87 T2 from someone that had 214k miles on it. It smoked (bluish smoke) with a nice scent of gas. He felt the APEX blew and with the amount of miles...I didnt think much of it. He said it ran fine untill he hit a puddle one day (turbo had no filter)..bame...it started running crappy. When I pulled the motor, all APEX seals where intacted.
So heres the deal...I have a recent rebuilt motor (5k) I installed, got everything hooked up and started it up...RUNS THE EXACT SAME WAY! I first have to get it started by disabling the fuel pump and pump'n the pedal. After it starts, I enable the pump. It blows out a lot of bluish smoke and smells real rich...and of course, is barely running.
WHAT COULD IT BE?
I have cleaned injectors, TPS is calibrated and timing is correct.
Can a bad turbo cause it to run this bad? Is there any electrical problem (coils, pickup on CAS) that can be bad or even the ECU? I found a few things on blown turbo's, but I really need help as I'm my is related to a new motor.
So heres the deal...I have a recent rebuilt motor (5k) I installed, got everything hooked up and started it up...RUNS THE EXACT SAME WAY! I first have to get it started by disabling the fuel pump and pump'n the pedal. After it starts, I enable the pump. It blows out a lot of bluish smoke and smells real rich...and of course, is barely running.
WHAT COULD IT BE?
I have cleaned injectors, TPS is calibrated and timing is correct.
Can a bad turbo cause it to run this bad? Is there any electrical problem (coils, pickup on CAS) that can be bad or even the ECU? I found a few things on blown turbo's, but I really need help as I'm my is related to a new motor.
I recently installed an aftermarket FPR... It ran great for a week, then started smoking, barely running, blowing a blueish white smoke... I could taste the gas (literally)... I pulled everything apart atleast 10 times trying to figure it out... I suggest checking your FPR... I jumped the Fuel Pump while a vac line was pulled an the vac line started shooting gasoline everywhere... It was then that I realized the diaphragm in the FPR was bad... I replaced mine and it runs like a champ... Hope this helps... Good Luck...
03-15-07, 08:06 AM
#43
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all feedback.
Some where in the middle of my troubleshooting last year I decided to swap the FPR for an aeromotive FPR as I too thought it might be the problem. Since then, I have good pressure and still problems.
So...I seem to find something new each day, each thing ends up being a small piece to a big puzzle. I now have the intercooler back on (I know better than to test without) I have no idea where my head was. I still have cold start issues.
I then find that I have a good size vacuum leak on part of the evaporation system. I thought the hose at the oil fill neck was like that on american v8's, that all you need is a breather on it...not so. I had it completely open, but after looking at the manual, there should be a 1 way check valve that prevents it from taking in air. I now have it corrected, but suspect I might actually have a bad 3 way cut valve at the fuel tank as it is not passing the test per the manual.
I assume this may introduce more fuel into the dynamic chamber as if the engine was already running at high speed when it shouldnt. I have it removed for now, have yet to try and start it.
I will post back when i get to go another round with the rex.
Some where in the middle of my troubleshooting last year I decided to swap the FPR for an aeromotive FPR as I too thought it might be the problem. Since then, I have good pressure and still problems.
So...I seem to find something new each day, each thing ends up being a small piece to a big puzzle. I now have the intercooler back on (I know better than to test without) I have no idea where my head was. I still have cold start issues.
I then find that I have a good size vacuum leak on part of the evaporation system. I thought the hose at the oil fill neck was like that on american v8's, that all you need is a breather on it...not so. I had it completely open, but after looking at the manual, there should be a 1 way check valve that prevents it from taking in air. I now have it corrected, but suspect I might actually have a bad 3 way cut valve at the fuel tank as it is not passing the test per the manual.
I assume this may introduce more fuel into the dynamic chamber as if the engine was already running at high speed when it shouldnt. I have it removed for now, have yet to try and start it.
I will post back when i get to go another round with the rex.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jeff20B
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
73
09-16-18 07:16 PM