Help! No Boost. Any answers?
08-10-02, 01:24 PM
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Help! No Boost. Any answers?
Check out my mods. I have done most of them in the recently so I am totally broke.
I have just installed a J-spec turbo engine with a stock turbo and a haltech E6k. I also put in a huge Greddy front-mount intercooler and a Greddy Profec B boost controller.
My engine starts up just fine an will even run around the block. My problem is the columns of black smoke spewing from my engine and no boost over 1psi!
Although I do not have excessive turbo shaft play, my mecahnic thinks that I have a bad seal in my turbo that is causing the lack of boost and oil to go into my intake and causing the excessive oil loss and and lack of boost. He does not think that it is the engine as it has good compression
Since I have the oil pump and injector lines still hooked up, I'm afraid that the oil injector pump is stuck open causing too much oil to be injected into the block. My secondary fuel injectors were stuck open when I first installed the engine which gives me the idea of the pump being stuck open (without electrical control, the oil injecors should be running at about 40%).
I think my boost problem might be caused by the Greddy boost controller not being set up yet, or possibly by the huge front mount intercooler being able to absorb such a large volume of air.
If I do need a new turbo, what is the best way to go? I don't want to to a full upgrade right now as I don't have the money. Should my stock turbo (91) be able to handle the job or is a bigger turbo necessary? If I do need a bigger turbo, where can I get a good, cheap one that will bolt right on?
I want my car to run already! Any knowledgeable help or advice would be much appreciated.
I have just installed a J-spec turbo engine with a stock turbo and a haltech E6k. I also put in a huge Greddy front-mount intercooler and a Greddy Profec B boost controller.
My engine starts up just fine an will even run around the block. My problem is the columns of black smoke spewing from my engine and no boost over 1psi!
Although I do not have excessive turbo shaft play, my mecahnic thinks that I have a bad seal in my turbo that is causing the lack of boost and oil to go into my intake and causing the excessive oil loss and and lack of boost. He does not think that it is the engine as it has good compression
Since I have the oil pump and injector lines still hooked up, I'm afraid that the oil injector pump is stuck open causing too much oil to be injected into the block. My secondary fuel injectors were stuck open when I first installed the engine which gives me the idea of the pump being stuck open (without electrical control, the oil injecors should be running at about 40%).
I think my boost problem might be caused by the Greddy boost controller not being set up yet, or possibly by the huge front mount intercooler being able to absorb such a large volume of air.
If I do need a new turbo, what is the best way to go? I don't want to to a full upgrade right now as I don't have the money. Should my stock turbo (91) be able to handle the job or is a bigger turbo necessary? If I do need a bigger turbo, where can I get a good, cheap one that will bolt right on?
I want my car to run already! Any knowledgeable help or advice would be much appreciated.
Last edited by mikeric; 08-10-02 at 01:26 PM.
08-10-02, 01:43 PM
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If you think it's the boost controller, then take it out of the system completely by running a vacuum hose from the compressor housing nipple directly to the actuator. That will put you at stock boost.
08-10-02, 04:04 PM
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Unfortunately, my down pipe, free-flowing exhaust, aftermarket ECU, and intercooler don't allow me to run stock boost.
My mechanic is now sure that it is my turbo. Anyone have one for sale ofr know where I can get one?
My mechanic is now sure that it is my turbo. Anyone have one for sale ofr know where I can get one?
08-10-02, 04:48 PM
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None of those mods. should keep you from being able to test the turbo by hooking us the stock wastegate valve. Just hook it up like he said above and be careful...see if the boost goes over 1 psi 
. You should be able to look in the intercooler to see if you have oil in there or in the tuble leading to the intercooler. If the turbo is bad then oil WILL be in the intake tubes. Also....if you find out the turbo is bad...sell it to me. I've been looking for a bad on that I can try to rebuild.
Todd
. You should be able to look in the intercooler to see if you have oil in there or in the tuble leading to the intercooler. If the turbo is bad then oil WILL be in the intake tubes. Also....if you find out the turbo is bad...sell it to me. I've been looking for a bad on that I can try to rebuild.Todd
08-10-02, 07:16 PM
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First off, plumes of black smoke should be a clue that it isn't the turbo. Black smoke would be a result of having too much fuel. If you had oil seeping past the seals in the turbo, you'd be seeing lots and lots of blue smoke under boost. Now since your not seeing any boost, there's another clue. I agree with trying to utilize the stock setup for boost control till you get it figured out. To me, personally, it sounds like it thinks it's seeing boost, so it's dumping in tons of fuel when no actual boost is occuring.
08-10-02, 10:25 PM
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I do have too much fuel. I haven't had a chance to run my car yet as my engine swap/Haltech installation is still in progress and I still need to tune the fuel as I am running on the Hitman's map which is very rich in order to protect the engine when tuning.
Now (after running for a little while) the turbo shaft has lots of play and is almost stuck as it doesn't spin freely. I'll try running stock boost, but I know that I do have an oil problem as the mechanic said that he drove it around the block and lost half a quart of oil. He did find that the oil pan was leaking and he is currently fixing it, but half a quart from an oil pan???
As to the exact color of the smoke, I'll look into it. I must be color blind as all smoke looks black or grey to me. Another theory (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the oil is leaking into the hot side of the turbo and is burning in the manifold.
As far as looking into the intercooler piping. I had thought of that one, but when the mechanic showed me my non spinning turbo and I theorized about oil leaking into the exhaust, I believed him and did not push the matter of taking off my intercooler pipe.
Still looking for a turbo!
Now (after running for a little while) the turbo shaft has lots of play and is almost stuck as it doesn't spin freely. I'll try running stock boost, but I know that I do have an oil problem as the mechanic said that he drove it around the block and lost half a quart of oil. He did find that the oil pan was leaking and he is currently fixing it, but half a quart from an oil pan???
As to the exact color of the smoke, I'll look into it. I must be color blind as all smoke looks black or grey to me. Another theory (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the oil is leaking into the hot side of the turbo and is burning in the manifold.
As far as looking into the intercooler piping. I had thought of that one, but when the mechanic showed me my non spinning turbo and I theorized about oil leaking into the exhaust, I believed him and did not push the matter of taking off my intercooler pipe.
Still looking for a turbo!
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08-11-02, 11:56 AM
#8
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I found some at <http://www.lourdsmusic.com/bnrsupercars/turbo8991.htm> They run from $500 to over $700. These are not just plain rebuilds of couse and have different options depending on what you want to spend and what your goals are.
08-11-02, 07:21 PM
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BNR is awesome. Bryan knows what he's doing. Plus, you would be getting a much better turbo than what comes stock. Talk to him, tell him what your goals are, what you want to do, and what you already have, he'll take good care of you.
08-11-02, 08:30 PM
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Does anyone read Sport Compact Car? Check out the July 2002 issue the performance dictionary section (pg. 301, turbine efficiency) and tell me why a clipped turbine is good.
08-11-02, 09:55 PM
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Here is what the above SCC article says to stay away from when it comes to turbo upgrades:
Turbos with small turbine wheels paired with large compressor wheels.
Clipped wheels.
On-center turbine housings.
Housings that have been "bored out" for larger wheels.
SCC's argument is that clipped wheels, although they do flow more and clipping reduces inertia, the inefficiency that results from the clipping makes the turbo behave as if it had 50% more inertia. They also claim that the reason that Garrett clips their turbos is to address blade frequency issues rather than for performance reasons.
The turbo that is used for the test is a T25, it is not something that anyone serious about making big hp numbers would put in their car.
Also, perhaps the large amount of exhaust gasses that the 7 produces would make up for an otherwise inefficient turbo.
Does anyone have a good explanation that will ease my mind about buying the BNR Supercars stage III upgrade?
Turbos with small turbine wheels paired with large compressor wheels.
Clipped wheels.
On-center turbine housings.
Housings that have been "bored out" for larger wheels.
SCC's argument is that clipped wheels, although they do flow more and clipping reduces inertia, the inefficiency that results from the clipping makes the turbo behave as if it had 50% more inertia. They also claim that the reason that Garrett clips their turbos is to address blade frequency issues rather than for performance reasons.
The turbo that is used for the test is a T25, it is not something that anyone serious about making big hp numbers would put in their car.
Also, perhaps the large amount of exhaust gasses that the 7 produces would make up for an otherwise inefficient turbo.
Does anyone have a good explanation that will ease my mind about buying the BNR Supercars stage III upgrade?
Last edited by mikeric; 08-11-02 at 09:58 PM.
08-11-02, 11:12 PM
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No takers on this one? Yes I am impatient as my Rex does not run even though I have the national deficit in engine mods. I want to hear from someone before I dump even more money into my green paper shredder.
08-12-02, 03:22 AM
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Whats up everyone,
A clipped turbine wheel allows more air to go throught the windows of the turbine wheels. What this does is lowers backpressure and helps stabelize boost. when you go to a larger comrpessor wheel, more exhaust energy is going throught the turbine wheel. You must open up the window for the exhaust gas to go through, or else back pressure will kill power and cause enefficient boost to creep. Clipping a turbine wheel actually increases volume going throught the wheel, when you increase volume through a wheel you make it more efficient. I have had absolutely no problems with turbine wheel clips and al the customers are really happy with their results
. Let me know if I can help you out....
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
P.S. Mike.... you may be running to rich to run boost. You also may need to check the intercooler connections, bypas valve for leaks, and also check to see if the rotating assembly is contacting the housings. You might have quite a bit of pressure drop through the intercooler.
A clipped turbine wheel allows more air to go throught the windows of the turbine wheels. What this does is lowers backpressure and helps stabelize boost. when you go to a larger comrpessor wheel, more exhaust energy is going throught the turbine wheel. You must open up the window for the exhaust gas to go through, or else back pressure will kill power and cause enefficient boost to creep. Clipping a turbine wheel actually increases volume going throught the wheel, when you increase volume through a wheel you make it more efficient. I have had absolutely no problems with turbine wheel clips and al the customers are really happy with their results
. Let me know if I can help you out....Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
P.S. Mike.... you may be running to rich to run boost. You also may need to check the intercooler connections, bypas valve for leaks, and also check to see if the rotating assembly is contacting the housings. You might have quite a bit of pressure drop through the intercooler.
08-12-02, 09:29 AM
#15
Originally posted by mikeric
Unfortunately, my down pipe, free-flowing exhaust, aftermarket ECU, and intercooler don't allow me to run stock boost.
My mechanic is now sure that it is my turbo. Anyone have one for sale ofr know where I can get one?
Unfortunately, my down pipe, free-flowing exhaust, aftermarket ECU, and intercooler don't allow me to run stock boost.
My mechanic is now sure that it is my turbo. Anyone have one for sale ofr know where I can get one?
Just disconnect the IC piping on the intake side of the motor and look for tons of oil inside there... Also see if the motor now runs as NA
Last edited by MIKE-P-28; 08-12-02 at 09:33 AM.
08-12-02, 09:39 AM
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First off, it's probably not the turbo. Even a turbo that's blowing tons of oil smoke will make boost. It has to be REALLY bad not to make boost, as in it's stuck and not turning at ALL.
First place to check is all your intercooler plumbing. Boost leaks are the most common culprit of low or no boost. Since you don't have an airflow meter any more, they won't make your car idle funny or anything - only vacuum leaks *after* the throttle body will affect the Haltech, since that's where it gets the manifold pressure reading.
Go over all your intercooler plumbing and make sure all the couplers are on securely, and the hose clamps are tight. ALWAYS tighten IC hose clamps with a nut driver, NOT a screwdriver. Also make sure your blow-off valve is on properly and isn't leaking.
Dale
First place to check is all your intercooler plumbing. Boost leaks are the most common culprit of low or no boost. Since you don't have an airflow meter any more, they won't make your car idle funny or anything - only vacuum leaks *after* the throttle body will affect the Haltech, since that's where it gets the manifold pressure reading.
Go over all your intercooler plumbing and make sure all the couplers are on securely, and the hose clamps are tight. ALWAYS tighten IC hose clamps with a nut driver, NOT a screwdriver. Also make sure your blow-off valve is on properly and isn't leaking.
Dale
08-12-02, 09:41 AM
#17
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And another thing -
Most Haltech maps switch to the secondary injectors when you reach boost. I didn't see what injector sizes you're running in your list, but if you have, say, 1600's for a map that's set up for 550's you're gonna be DUMPING fuel in at boost, which will totally kill power. Also, make sure your secondaries are wired in properly as well.
Check all your bases first before you throw money at the problem.
Dale
Most Haltech maps switch to the secondary injectors when you reach boost. I didn't see what injector sizes you're running in your list, but if you have, say, 1600's for a map that's set up for 550's you're gonna be DUMPING fuel in at boost, which will totally kill power. Also, make sure your secondaries are wired in properly as well.
Check all your bases first before you throw money at the problem.
Dale
08-12-02, 05:38 PM
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Unfortunately, I have verified that the problem is the turbo. As I had suspected, the exhaust side if the turbo is one giant oil hole that oil gushes out of, evaporating in the down pipe and creating an oily mess.
BNR supercars, here I come! Right now I have the stock injectors, but these will be gone in a week or two. Should I go with 720s or 1600s? I don't want to see more than 10 psi of boost on race days and around 7 for daily driving. Also, does anyone know who the stage three turbo acts under normal driving conditions with 7 psi and 10 psi? Laggy?
BNR supercars, here I come! Right now I have the stock injectors, but these will be gone in a week or two. Should I go with 720s or 1600s? I don't want to see more than 10 psi of boost on race days and around 7 for daily driving. Also, does anyone know who the stage three turbo acts under normal driving conditions with 7 psi and 10 psi? Laggy?
Last edited by mikeric; 08-12-02 at 05:41 PM.
08-12-02, 08:06 PM
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PS: When I removed the turbo, the outlet of the turbo was full of oil while the exhaust manifold of the engine was dry! I will double check everything for leaks.
I'm still looking for answers on what size injectors I should get for a reliable 10 psi.
I'm still looking for answers on what size injectors I should get for a reliable 10 psi.
08-12-02, 08:42 PM
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Hey, for the best response and best price I reccomend a stage 1 H3 Compressor upgrade. It will be perfect for your application and only 720s will be needed for under 10 psi of boost. When you want to turn up the boost, you will need to replace the primaries with 720's and get an AFC with a fuel pump upgrade. after that you will be really happy with the performance! The turbo will grab you before 4K rpm and hold you in the seat till red line.. Very fun and zippy turbo. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me at bnrsupercars@aol.com.
Take care,
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
Take care,
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
08-12-02, 11:53 PM
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Thanks bryan! I was trying to send my turbo out today but UPS closed. Is will go out tomorrow. I put stage three on my paper of what I want, but if you recommend a stage 1 for my upgrade, I'll go with that instead.
My email is mikericboetius@hotmail.com, we have been communicating for a couple of days. Do you sell the 720 injectors? If so, can you cut me a deal if I buy the turbo and injectors together? PM me to work out the details and payment.
I already have walbro fuel pump and a Haltech to control fuel (see my mods at the top of this post).
Thanks everyone for your help with this.
The RX-7 Forum is way cool as it is a good source of information when I needed it. You have all helped take some of the stress out of my over stressed life (stupid non-working car...just kidding, I love you Rexy, please forgive me for saying that).
I better go to bed... Peace!
My email is mikericboetius@hotmail.com, we have been communicating for a couple of days. Do you sell the 720 injectors? If so, can you cut me a deal if I buy the turbo and injectors together? PM me to work out the details and payment.
I already have walbro fuel pump and a Haltech to control fuel (see my mods at the top of this post).
Thanks everyone for your help with this.
The RX-7 Forum is way cool as it is a good source of information when I needed it. You have all helped take some of the stress out of my over stressed life (stupid non-working car...just kidding, I love you Rexy, please forgive me for saying that).
I better go to bed... Peace!
Last edited by mikeric; 08-12-02 at 11:56 PM.
09-04-02, 04:40 PM
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I received my stage 1 turbo today from BNR Supercars! I also had the turbo housing ported as well as the turbo manifold. I'm waiting for my 720s to arrive and another N/A to turbo/Haltech/FMIC conversion has taken place. I'll let you know how it runs as soon as it runs.
09-04-02, 04:42 PM
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After my car being decommissioned for about nine months, I'm as excited as a little girl on Christmas morning. Autocross coming up in two weeks! Time to learn how to tune a Haltech!
09-07-02, 11:13 AM
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Here is the news on my car, if anyone cares. As posted in the tech section of the forum. Any answers are more than welcome.
Here is my long sad story:
My '90 GXL's engine finally blew. I looked around and decided to go with a rebuilt Hayes engine. With the options that I selected, my engine came to about $3,000. They promissed it in two weeks, but they finished it in eight. They then sent it to AL instead of NM. My mechanic installed it and it had bad compression on one of the rotors. Hayes took so long to get me the engine, that by the time I received it, it was too late to dispute the charge on my credit card.
I gave up on the non-turbo rebuilds and bought a Japenese '91 turbo engine from Mazda Racing. I also bought a Haltech, Greddy boost controller, Turbo X BOV, Greddy FMIC, Fuel Pump, clutch, etc. I wanted to do this conversion in a reliable, tunable way.
I am active duty military and a full time college student, so I don't have the time to work on it myself. When everything was installed, my bill was $2,500. I sadly ran up my credit card bill even more but satisfaction is not yet.
When my engine started, it blew colums of white smoke and used about a quart of oil in ten minutes. My mechanics were puzzled. They then deided that the turbo was shot and was blowing oil. I sent the turbo off for a rebuild with BNR supercars. The stage 1 rebuild along with porting the housing and manifold came to $580.
Yesterday, I finally installed the turbo and manifold and guess what--it still blows oil out the back! The engine runs fine (for a new Haltech setup), the turbo spools fine, but, my car is using more oil then gas. A compression test shows good compression on both of my rotors.
Do I need a full rebuild, or do I just have a bad oil seal somewhere that can be changed out? I am out of money and out of credit, and unfortunately I'm still out of a car. What can I do to make this cursed thing work?
If it is something that I can do, I will take a week of leave and do it myself. I haven't driven my car in almost a year now. I need it to work already as it is the only car I have.
Help!!!
Here is my long sad story:
My '90 GXL's engine finally blew. I looked around and decided to go with a rebuilt Hayes engine. With the options that I selected, my engine came to about $3,000. They promissed it in two weeks, but they finished it in eight. They then sent it to AL instead of NM. My mechanic installed it and it had bad compression on one of the rotors. Hayes took so long to get me the engine, that by the time I received it, it was too late to dispute the charge on my credit card.
I gave up on the non-turbo rebuilds and bought a Japenese '91 turbo engine from Mazda Racing. I also bought a Haltech, Greddy boost controller, Turbo X BOV, Greddy FMIC, Fuel Pump, clutch, etc. I wanted to do this conversion in a reliable, tunable way.
I am active duty military and a full time college student, so I don't have the time to work on it myself. When everything was installed, my bill was $2,500. I sadly ran up my credit card bill even more but satisfaction is not yet.
When my engine started, it blew colums of white smoke and used about a quart of oil in ten minutes. My mechanics were puzzled. They then deided that the turbo was shot and was blowing oil. I sent the turbo off for a rebuild with BNR supercars. The stage 1 rebuild along with porting the housing and manifold came to $580.
Yesterday, I finally installed the turbo and manifold and guess what--it still blows oil out the back! The engine runs fine (for a new Haltech setup), the turbo spools fine, but, my car is using more oil then gas. A compression test shows good compression on both of my rotors.
Do I need a full rebuild, or do I just have a bad oil seal somewhere that can be changed out? I am out of money and out of credit, and unfortunately I'm still out of a car. What can I do to make this cursed thing work?
If it is something that I can do, I will take a week of leave and do it myself. I haven't driven my car in almost a year now. I need it to work already as it is the only car I have.
Help!!!
09-07-02, 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by dcfc3s
First off, it's probably not the turbo. Even a turbo that's blowing tons of oil smoke will make boost. It has to be REALLY bad not to make boost, as in it's stuck and not turning at ALL.
First place to check is all your intercooler plumbing. Boost leaks are the most common culprit of low or no boost. Since you don't have an airflow meter any more, they won't make your car idle funny or anything - only vacuum leaks *after* the throttle body will affect the Haltech, since that's where it gets the manifold pressure reading.
Go over all your intercooler plumbing and make sure all the couplers are on securely, and the hose clamps are tight. ALWAYS tighten IC hose clamps with a nut driver, NOT a screwdriver. Also make sure your blow-off valve is on properly and isn't leaking.
Dale
First off, it's probably not the turbo. Even a turbo that's blowing tons of oil smoke will make boost. It has to be REALLY bad not to make boost, as in it's stuck and not turning at ALL.
First place to check is all your intercooler plumbing. Boost leaks are the most common culprit of low or no boost. Since you don't have an airflow meter any more, they won't make your car idle funny or anything - only vacuum leaks *after* the throttle body will affect the Haltech, since that's where it gets the manifold pressure reading.
Go over all your intercooler plumbing and make sure all the couplers are on securely, and the hose clamps are tight. ALWAYS tighten IC hose clamps with a nut driver, NOT a screwdriver. Also make sure your blow-off valve is on properly and isn't leaking.
Dale