ibemrzach

I started my car the other day and it was vibrating like an earthquake.

Under the hood, the bay is covered in oil. Under the car is a very large bolt, which I believe to be the eccentric shaft bolt? It is hollow in the middle where I believe the oil pellet goes?

I presume I need to take the fan shroud/fan off and put the bolt back in? Is it that simple?

1. Is there any sort of gasket I need?
2. The oil pellet is gone. What exactly do I need?
3. I know I need to torque the bolt down. Does anyone know the torque? or the procedure? I have a breaker bar and probably access to a torque gun.

I appreciate any and all help. As you can see, I know next to nothing here, and I need my car back in operation ASAP.

Zach Naert

hungery4rice

iTrader: (7)

http://www.teamfc3s.org/main/factory.../01_ENGINE.pdf

Go down to page 1-67.

spot_skater

Be careful you don't crush the needle bearings bro...

Check mazdatrix for info on that... Only way to check is to pull off the front cover.

James

ibemrzach

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/pulley.htm

Mazdatrix directed me to this page. It's a warning about just that. Really, I cannot take the front cover off. That is above and beyond anything I can do myself. I read the page above and I have no clue what the hell any of it is talking about.

I'm reading words but I don't know what they mean and nothing makes sense.

So, I think I have to take my fan and shroud off and look at it, and then I'm going to guess. That's my plan right now.

spot_skater

It's really not SO SO bad. I did do it with the engine out of the car, though, which makes things that much easier.

If you want to discuss it feel free to IM me @ spotskater on AIM. I think I've got some pics from when I did it.

James

Doc Holiday

iTrader: (2)

I feel bad for you, but if your e shaft bolt really did back out, then you are in a bad spot. The front cover HAS to come off. That is the only CORRECT way to do it. You need to re-align the needle bearing, and then torque the front bolt back on and check pre load. Really crappy news. Check to be sure the front bolt is missing before you get too worked up. BTW, as far as the missing oil pellet, if you are lucky, its still in the E shaft haha. Its really bizzare that your bolt backed itself out. Really bizzare.

spot_skater

Yeah...Unless someone fucked with it I'd say damn near impossible. Mazda puts a **** load of thread locker on it from the factory. With my Impact gun (~850 ft lbs reverse tq) it took a good 5-6 seconds for me to unzip it, after heating it for a bit.

James

ibemrzach

I've had the engine rebuilt twice now. The most recent was about 4 months ago. It's weird cause I drove it, it was fine; 15 minutes later, I started it up, and it was shaking really bad. I drove it a block, pulled into a parking lot, and turned the engine off. I looked under the engine and the bolt was laying there and my engine was covered in oil.

Looks like I will have to take the front plate off.

slo

iTrader: (1)

there is a way to check if the endplay is within spec without taking the front cover off, you need a depth gauge, or a dial caliper with one, its in the third gen FSM under the engine assembly section, which can be found in the 3rd gen forum in the faq.

My friend had this happen with a mazda reman FD (he lost the bolt holder that is supposed to prevent this from hapening and obviously mazda let this one go without locktight or torque), the engine did vibrate just like you said, but the bearing didn't fall. I checked the endplay as described above and it was still in spec, after torquing the bearing with locktite, the engine felt like it had the right amount of play by hand. Engine ran fine and still is. The point of this is maybe you got lucky and the bearing didn't fall.

HAILERS

Similar to the above but not the same: Got to the section in the FSM that deals with putting the engine back together.

Right there it shows you how to measure from the front face of the pulley hub to the face of the eccentric shaft. IF the measurement is MORE than that given in the FSM, then you reassymble the front hub/pulley/bolt and go about your way. It's as simple as that.

I suggest whoever rebuilt the engine is clueless about *How To*. As in brain dead and or worse.

Follow the FSM and use sealant on the threads when you put it back together. Sealant being Locktite.

Make sure all the parts are there.

I suggest having someone do it for you, not you. Use sealant and torque to the FSM figures.

Rx7TyreBurna

iTrader: (1)

I had this happen too, sort of...

I noticed my oil pressure was getting low all the time, but had almost full oil.

Then I noticed that I had oil all over my fan, and my fan was spitting it everywhere else. So, I pulled the fan off, and looked at the bolt. It was probably a couple threads in, but I could easily move it with my hand. So, I had to pull everything off. new gaskets, bearings, etc.

Real pain in the butt. I only torqued mine back on with a 375 ft. lbs. impact gun. It is all i had at the time. My new one does 750+ ft. lbs.

I would suggest doing it right and pulling everything off and checking the bearing. Don't wanna cheap out on it and end up needed a new motor.

Good luck, sorry to hear.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Unless I'm crazy, you mean *less,* not more, right?

HAILERS

I now admit I'm brain dead. Yes. MORE should be LESS. More or less. humor

spot_skater

You don't have to pull off the front plate... oil pan comes off, front main pulley, water pump housing and then the front cover IIRC... Check the FSM bro.

And I would not use an impact gun to put that bolt back on. The tq spec is somewhere around 90 lbs IIRC... use a torque wrench.

James

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I think he meant front cover when he said 'front plate,' not sure though.

On an FD, torque spec is 190 ft-lbs IIRC, higher than most torque wrenches are rated. There's nothing wrong with using an impact gun set to the proper torque rating. As mentioned, make sure to use lock tight and silicone.

spot_skater

+1 On the Loctite. Be Liberal with it, use the strong ****... I think I used the red kind.

And I'm pretty sure on 2nd gens it's only 90 lbs. -double checks- Haynes says between 80-98 ft/lbs... as long as "Eccentric shaft-to-hub bolt" is the same as main bolt...

And to the OP... while you have the front cover off and this bolt out, you might as well do the oil bypass mod. I think it can be found at Ted's site. You just need a few washers.

James

Doc Holiday

iTrader: (2)

Uuhhhh, that sounds scary, cuz different amounts of torque applied to that bolt will create different amounts of endplay.

HAILERS

Again, you do not need to pull the front cover off. Look at the jpg I attached and MEASURE. IF it measures right, then reinstall the bolt/washer and bypass valve/spring if it fell out. Torque 80-98 lbs.

HAILERS

Again, you do not need to pull the front cover off. Look at the jpg I attached and MEASURE. IF it measures right, then reinstall the bolt/washer and bypass valve/spring if it fell out. Torque 80-98 lbs.

And you don't have to pull the pan off to remove the front cover if it comes to that. Just remove the screws in the front of the pan that mate with the front cover.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I have to disagree. The bolt already came OUT, and the engine was run in that condition. That's just ASKING for the front stack thrust bearings to fall out of position. So you guys are telling him, "oh, just put loctite on that big bolt and impact it back in place, then check endplay and see if the bearings fell or not". Well, what do you think is going to happen when he does that? IF the bearings have fallen, as soon as he tightens that bolt down, they will be crushed, and metal shavings will go everywhere. I've seen a few cracked thrust plates because of this.

And you can NOT check endplay while the bolt is not tight. So there are 2 options here:

1) install bolt and torque the hell out of it, assuming that everything behind it is okay. IF not, stuff may be damaged under the front cover, increasing repair cost and time.

2) go ahead and pull the cover now and check/reset the parts to their correct position. THEN torque the bolt down and check endplay.

Also, you have to use an impact to tighten this bolt. A torque wrench is useless. Mazda did not use a torque wrench when they installed the bolt, I can almost assure you...because there are times that my 600ftlb gun (rated @90psi, being driven at 165psi) will not budge this bolt.

To the original poster, all I have to add is...

...and you raised immortal hell 3 years ago when I did your rebuild/install and an original coolant hose had a pinhole leak, yet the front bolt falls out of your current rebuild done by another person and I mysteriously don't see any GG/BG threads about it. And yes, this problem is clearly the rebuilder's fault.

adrock3217

An idea: If your engine was running without this bolt in..the vibrations was probably the e-shaft walking..right?


If so, I would pray you haven't done any serious damage.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

One other thing to note...the last engine that was brought to me with a bolt that had come out while running (not one of mine), the person had already put the bolt back in. BUt the hub wasn't installed properly. The owner complained of vibration. I took it apart to have a looksee. When the bolt came loose, the main shaft key slid forward, and actually let the counterweight slide free (it swung around to the bottom of course). Then when they tightened the hub back up, the key was sticking out and wouldn't let the hub go all the way back onto the shaft. Then the engine was run this way, with the counterweight free-spinning on the e-shaft.

Surprisingly it didn't destroy the shaft in the time it was being driven, but I did have to pull the cover and reinstall all the parts back in their proper order, then the vibration went away and the hub was aligned properly again.

Longshoe

iTrader: (2)

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/damage.htm

Look under front thrust bearing failure. It should be the first pic that shows how your pulleys are aligned. Honestly if the engine was run without the front pulley bolt then I would expect that the front stack is pretty rattled up and you should probably pull the front cover or risk engine damage.

HAILERS

IF you paid money for this rebuild, then the rebuilder OWES you.

IF he rebuilt it for a case of beer, he owes you nothing.

IF you did it yourself..........do gooder next time.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

You measure endplay after the bolt is torqued down.