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I have seen one guy with JRZ rs pro suspension, I don't know how much he paid for it. A lot of the customers at the shop I work at have JRZ rs pro for their e46 m3's. Its around $6K on those cars
Another question for you guys: is the potential of the FC chassis/suspension even there to build a car that can compete with modern Porsches, BMWs, etc.? A lot of my view of the FCs performance potential comes from looking at time attacks on Tsukuba, where fully caged cars with carbon fiber doors and Lexan windows run respectable times - what about for a street car? I see S14 240SXs compete in SM class in autocross against Corvettes, Evos, etc., often winning. Can the same be done with the FC? Why or why not? Compared to the 240SX I know the rear suspension design is less advanced, but can those issues be fixed with adjustable parts? I don't see why the FC should be any less competitive than a 240SX, yet it seems to be so. Is the rear suspension design really that important? Does it have trouble putting power down? Why?
Looking at it critically, the front is just a Mac strut, and the rear semi trailing arm setup is not ideal with no real anti squat. The car has no modern driving aids (abs specifically) so you are behind the 8 ball before you start, but that goes for any 30 year old car.
That said, the balance on the car is good, and the car is really durable and light. Can you make the car competitive with modern cars? Yes. Are you going to dominate? Probably not, but it is possible with enough development, time and money. I think it is a better starting platform than a 240 though. I think what is surprising is that how good the car can be with a relatively simple setup.
I don't autox, but in the open track and time attack stuff I do the car is competitive with Vettes, Vipers, Porsches, etc. My car has a V8 in it, but a rotary with the same power would run the same, just louder and use more fuel
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-19-16 at 07:52 PM.
Another question for you guys: is the potential of the FC chassis/suspension even there to build a car that can compete with modern Porsches, BMWs, etc.?
Well sure!
You just mentioned two other cars with crap suspension, but a whole lot of development put into the chassis to make them work ok. The FC can definitely compete with that.
Time attack especially is where the FC can shine since it allows massive aero so you have to lock down the suspension so it doesn't do anything anyways. There are some FAST FCs at Tsukeba.
Another question for you guys: is the potential of the FC chassis/suspension even there to build a car that can compete with modern Porsches, BMWs, etc.?
Well sure!
You just mentioned two other cars with crap suspension, but a whole lot of development put into the chassis to make them work ok. The FC can definitely compete with that.
Time attack especially is where the FC can shine since it allows massive aero so you have to lock down the suspension so it doesn't do anything anyways. There are some FAST FCs at Tsukeba.
Good point. I have been spending the last year trying to get all a can out of my car without aero. It has been a lot of fun. I've shaved 2 seconds off my times, and gained a lot of consistency. I have also hit the wall of diminished returns, but I have a couple more parts to change to see if it can net me a little more speed through the corners. I don't have a problem putting down the power, I'm just out of mechanical grip.
Mechanical grip, eh? Tire width limitations must be one of the main limiting factors with the FC with 255 rubber bands being about the limit on stock fenders. Are you running flares/overfenders?
Mechanical grip, eh? Tire width limitations must be one of the main limiting factors with the FC with 255 rubber bands being about the limit on stock fenders. Are you running flares/overfenders?
275s all around. Pulled rear fenders, Shine front fenders. I ran 255s before. The main problem with the chassis is the limited tire height you can run in front.
Running 255s or 275s on 17 or 18 inch wheels puts the body of the car much higher off the ground than a lowered modern car. This kills a considerable amount of aero grip. Ever watch a C6 Z06 corner or brake on a track? It's damn near grinding off the air dam. I put a cheap Mach 1 chin spoiler on my car and noticed a large improvement in steering response over 100 MPH. A real splitter and rear wing will really help the car.
i hate how you guy are comparing these cars. i love my fc but it's absolute **** compared to new stuff...
rx8
double wish bone, 5 link rear, torqsens rear diff(never wears out needs load to lock)
ABS DSC, and much finer tuned steering compensation(i still turn off PS)
rx7
mac pherson, trailing arms in the rear. clutch lsd( better locking, worn out in 40k miles)
no abs, no dsc, super soft power steering which always gets converted...
08 bmw m5.
brake pressure sensors on each wheel.
front and rear yaw sensors. 4 wheel speed sensors, 2 axle speed sensors on the diffs
the most advance abs, dsc and ebc systems i've seen. due to the number of feedback sensors..
i can't even name the type of suspension...
Last edited by lastphaseofthis; 03-20-16 at 12:23 PM.
at my last autocross I was fastest car of the day and 6th in PAX (index) in SM out of 220+ cars at my local scca autocross... The FC isn't ideal, but it works... I don't think it's as easy to get to work as most cars, but its not terrible. Aero helps a lot and big tires...
The car is down for quite a few upgrades this winter so it's only going to get faster...
i hate how you guy are comparing these cars. i love my fc but it's absolute **** compared to new stuff...
rx8
double wish bone, 5 link rear, torqsens rear diff(never wears out needs load to lock)
ABS DSC, and much finer tuned steering compensation(i still turn off PS)
rx7
mac pherson, trailing arms in the rear. clutch lsd( better locking, worn out in 40k miles)
no abs, no dsc, super soft power steering which always gets converted...
08 bmw m5.
brake pressure sensors on each wheel.
front and rear yaw sensors. 4 wheel speed sensors, 2 axle speed sensors on the diffs
the most advance abs, dsc and ebc systems i've seen. due to the number of feedback sensors..
i can't even name the type of suspension...
According to Initial D, the fc3s is only one of the car and driver combos to be faster than a 1986 Toyota Corolla gts. It might have drank 10 times more fuel and put down 3 times more power, but it proved to be the "white comet"
I'm so sorry, I just had to. Our fc is what it is. There is always going to be something newer and better, and faster. We just have fun with what we have.
at my last autocross I was fastest car of the day and 6th in PAX (index) in SM out of 220+ cars at my local scca autocross... The FC isn't ideal, but it works... I don't think it's as easy to get to work as most cars, but its not terrible. Aero helps a lot and big tires...
The car is down for quite a few upgrades this winter so it's only going to get faster...
QFT. Once you put aero on the car a lot goes out the window aside from the electronic aids. I think that it is harder to get the car dialed in because there are just so few of us out there running the cars at these speeds. I've tried some things Eage8 has done, he's tried things I have done, and a bunch of us share info via this site and others.
I have found my car very responsive to changes, but it is not like an Evo or a Mustang where there are a set of mods and a setup that gets you 90% of the way there.
With the FC there is a basic setup that works, but to really get the car to fast I had to play with the setup and parts.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-21-16 at 11:19 AM.
i hate how you guy are comparing these cars. i love my fc but it's absolute **** compared to new stuff...
rx8
double wish bone, 5 link rear, torqsens rear diff(never wears out needs load to lock)
ABS DSC, and much finer tuned steering compensation(i still turn off PS)
rx7
mac pherson, trailing arms in the rear. clutch lsd( better locking, worn out in 40k miles)
no abs, no dsc, super soft power steering which always gets converted...
08 bmw m5.
brake pressure sensors on each wheel.
front and rear yaw sensors. 4 wheel speed sensors, 2 axle speed sensors on the diffs
the most advance abs, dsc and ebc systems i've seen. due to the number of feedback sensors..
i can't even name the type of suspension...
I agree on the RX8, If I build another car it will be a LS powered RX8.
An M5 is a quick sedan around a track, but it is still not what I'd consider fast. It is easy and fun to drive at that quick speed, however and you'll beat a bunch of tuner cars with it.
This is coming from someone who drives a '13 CTS-v and had it at the track. My Caddy is not even close to the speeds my RX7 can run.
On the high end of racing (like Time Attack) the FC won't be giving up anything on other cars because of the extensive mods you can do and the good basics the FC has (excellent aerodynamics, light weight, chassis rigidity).
You will get out of the FC what you put into it.
Last I heard the Super Motobei FC was in the 55sec range at Tsukuba? That is fast! Its not Scorch Racing 51sec fast, but with enough development it might be since the 240SX is no gem of a chassis either.
On the very low end of racing (where I can afford to play- closer to a stock car) with low speeds that emphasize handling- I felt the FC really does give a lot up to the newer chassis.
RX-8 is a great low cost alternative to the FD here if you want to stay rotary.
Miata is king of low cost and handling if you don't care about the engine (or power for that matter).
On the high end of racing (like Time Attack) the FC won't be giving up anything on other cars because of the extensive mods you can do and the good basics the FC has (excellent aerodynamics, light weight, chassis rigidity).
You will get out of the FC what you put into it.
Last I heard the Super Motobei FC was in the 55sec range at Tsukuba? That is fast! Its not Scorch Racing 51sec fast, but with enough development it might be since the 240SX is no gem of a chassis either.
On the very low end of racing (where I can afford to play- closer to a stock car) with low speeds that emphasize handling- I felt the FC really does give a lot up to the newer chassis.
RX-8 is a great low cost alternative to the FD here if you want to stay rotary.
Miata is king of low cost and handling if you don't care about the engine (or power for that matter).
Yes, at that level you are working a lot harder to make an FC fast, but it is impressive how well it does run today for a 30 year old platform.
I can hang with or run faster than many modern high end cars, but there are others that I flat cannot keep up with if they have a good driver at the wheel.
Honestly I lose most of my time under braking. I am always braking conservatively because I am scared of flat spotting a tire, which will basically ruin the entire day.
Im in the final stages of my time attack build atm, i currently lack the coilovers and turbocharger, hopefully late this summer i can share some experience with you
I started of by replacing ALL bushings with pillowballs to make everything move smooth and to sit tight and not bind in range of motion
Added speedway style swaybars (only test fitted the front one so far) and made sure they wouldnt bind, it did not but i might move it to the front strut instead of the LCA
I have also set an "imaginary rideheight", added roll center correctors and tie rod ends to get better geometry at this new rideheight. It looks promising but i will get help at this stage with final measurements and adjustments.
To stick this to the tarmac i will run 295 or 285 tires depending on what my rideheight allows.
Full seam welding and full cage and so on.
Big weight reduction, alot of work to move the weight to the center of the car, and about 600hp of tourqy 20b......
You notice something missing? Yep the fking coilover part, i simpli cant find anything of the shelf that i like, and barely anything custom either...fortunes 510 is the closest i get but i would like em 2way adjust and with reservoars, maybe some custom ohlins or sellholms but then we talk big *** money, and that might delay me for a year.
BTW, there is 2 Timeattack FC here in sweden that is still considered "low aero" that is very successful vs ferarri f430 and tons of highly modded bmw's and even FD's and evo's. And guess what....no gold plated coilovers , no abs, no seq gearbox or ceramic brakes from mars
The fc is light, balanced, easy to work with and very viable. I just wish you could get it lower while still useing something like 305 tires all around
I am however looking in to that......
Im in the final stages of my time attack build atm, i currently lack the coilovers and turbocharger, hopefully late this summer i can share some experience with you
I started of by replacing ALL bushings with pillowballs to make everything move smooth and to sit tight and not bind in range of motion
Added speedway style swaybars (only test fitted the front one so far) and made sure they wouldnt bind, it did not but i might move it to the front strut instead of the LCA
I have also set an "imaginary rideheight", added roll center correctors and tie rod ends to get better geometry at this new rideheight. It looks promising but i will get help at this stage with final measurements and adjustments.
To stick this to the tarmac i will run 295 or 285 tires depending on what my rideheight allows.
Full seam welding and full cage and so on.
Big weight reduction, alot of work to move the weight to the center of the car, and about 600hp of tourqy 20b......
You notice something missing? Yep the fking coilover part, i simpli cant find anything of the shelf that i like, and barely anything custom either...fortunes 510 is the closest i get but i would like em 2way adjust and with reservoars, maybe some custom ohlins or sellholms but then we talk big *** money, and that might delay me for a year.
BTW, there is 2 Timeattack FC here in sweden that is still considered "low aero" that is very successful vs ferarri f430 and tons of highly modded bmw's and even FD's and evo's. And guess what....no gold plated coilovers , no abs, no seq gearbox or ceramic brakes from mars
The fc is light, balanced, easy to work with and very viable. I just wish you could get it lower while still useing something like 305 tires all around
I am however looking in to that......
Fortune makes 2 way coilovers with remote canisters. The 510s are upgrade able to that spec.
For the price they get for them I'd spend the cash for some Bilsteins or Penskes. The 510s are a good middle ground for the price.
Would be nice to have a thread for us 3 people on earth trying to build competitive FCs to share our setups.
For me I would be building a mild race build, with good streetability. That means no crazy aero or even overfenders. I wonder how competitive such a car would be.
For me I would be building a mild race build, with good streetability. That means no crazy aero or even overfenders. I wonder how competitive such a car would be.
Amazing drivers have done amazing things before!
Plus you should be able to fit 275/35-15 Hoosiers under stock rolled fenders and run the car really low at the track and get street-ability back with just bolting your taller street tires on.
My car has raced for two years on the GC setup with the race-grade Koni dampers. Two NASA national championships to show for it. So, i'd say they are decent.
If i recall correctly the springs are 400lb fronts and 275 rears.
The shocks are double adjustable in the front and single in the rear.
The performance is fantastic.
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
03-19-16, 06:30 PM
