Originally Posted by cardzrule

If thats true then howd peeps tune engines back when there werent any such thing as wideband O2 sensors? I know theres been car engines a long time befor wideband O2 sensors invented.

Originally Posted by bunnybunny

well most cars didn't have EFI back then

hense forth they were carbed

Originally Posted by bunnybunny

well most cars didn't have EFI back then

hense forth they were carbed

Originally Posted by J-Rat

I would assume that you would tune off of knock. Piston motors are capable of that.

Originally Posted by cardzrule

so whats teh dif between tuning a carb or efi? Rich is still rich and lean is still lean and knock is still knock.


79 rx7 aint got no wideband. Maybe teh 12a is just better than teh 13b?

Originally Posted by bunnybunny

well most cars didn't have EFI back then
hense forth they were carbed

Originally Posted by J-Rat

And your point is?

Originally Posted by Aaron Cake

Plenty of ways to tune without a wideband. Smell, exhaust gas analysis, feel, etc.

Originally Posted by J-Rat

That made absolutely no sense..

Originally Posted by cardzrule

Plenty of ways to tune without a wideband. Smell, exhaust gas analysis, feel, etc.

Means that its wrong what you said about needing a wideband to tune efi wether on teh dyno or street.

Originally Posted by bunnybunny

and like i said.. i'm not looking for something fast...

Originally Posted by J-Rat

LOL!!! Well you guys go RIGHT ON AHEAD and tune without the benefit of a wideband. I am well aware there are other ways to tune, but why would you when the 02 sensor is the best way?

Lol.. Ive read some of your other posts, you are definately a class act.

Originally Posted by cardzrule

thx. RX7s been running mad tite for over 20 years wit no wideband. Im glad I dont gotta buy no xpensive wideband but itd be nice if youd said straight up that a wideband aint needed. Also glad you like readin my posts.

Originally Posted by J-Rat

So if you want me to say that a wideband isnt needed, you will be waiting a long time.

Originally Posted by cardzrule

Dood you said that in ur last post lol.

neway, so how you splane how mazda made teh 2gen and 3gen turbo cars run wit no wideband?

Originally Posted by cardzrule

neway, so how you splane how mazda made teh 2gen and 3gen turbo cars run wit no wideband?

Originally Posted by J-Rat

Well, lets see here.... Mazda did all the tuning, using the wideband (and I would imagine other things like Ve, etc..), during the testing phases.

Originally Posted by cardzrule

So splane how mazda did all teh tuning during teh testing phases for teh 1988-1994 TURBO rx7s if teh wideband wasnt even invented till 2001. Maybe mazda gotz a time machine so they can tune their carz in teh future and then make them back in teh past?


http://home.att.net/~ngksparkplugs/w...or_History.doc

Originally Posted by J-Rat

Actually, the wideband was introduced a few years before that, but I will leave it up to you to figure out when that was since you are so smart.

Originally Posted by November 2001 Bosch Reporter

The newest O2 sensor technology from Bosch builds upon the planar design and adds the ability to actually measure the air/fuel ratio directly for the first time. Instead of switching back and forth like all previous sensor designs, the new wide-band O2 sensor produces a signal that is directly proportional to the air/fuel ratio.

The wide-band sensor uses a "dual sensing element" that combines the Nernst effect cell in the planar design with an additional "oxygen pump" layer and "diffusion gap" on the same strip of ceramic. The result is a sensor element that can precisely measure air/fuel ratios from very rich (10:1) to extremely lean (straight air). This allows the engine computer to use an entirely different operating strategy to control the air/fuel ratio. Instead of switching the air/fuel ratio back and forth from rich to lean to create an average balanced mixture, it can simply add or subtract fuel as needed to maintain a steady ratio of 14.7:1.

Like a zirconia thimble or planar-type sensor, the wide-band sensor produces a low-voltage signal when the air/fuel ratio goes lean, and a high-voltage signal when the mixture is rich. But instead of switching abruptly, it produces a gradual change in the voltage that increases or decreases in proportion to the relative richness or leanness of the air/fuel ratio. So, at a perfectly balanced air/fuel ratio or 14.7:1, a wide-band O2 sensor will produce a steady 450 mv. If the mixture goes a little richer or a little leaner, the sensor's output voltage will only change a small amount instead of rising or dropping dramatically.

Another difference in the wide-band O2 sensor is the heater circuit. Like a planar sensor, it is printed on the ceramic strip. But the heater circuit is pulse-width modulated to maintain a consistent operating temperature of 1292 to 1472 degrees F. the sensor takes about 20 seconds to reach operating temperature.

Originally Posted by Trevor

You're limiting your search to Bosch brand wideband sensors. They're a relative newcomer to the scene. Hitachi & NGK (NTK) had widebands in 1986-1987 and the auto manufacturers started utilizing them shortly thereafter. By 1991 Horiba had a wideband available for public purchase. Any old Joe with enough cash could buy one.

I think Ari Yallon still has one of the early Horibas on his dash. It's the size of a house.

http://www.horibalab.com/

Originally Posted by NTK History

Oxygen sensors have been given various names over the years. Exhaust gas oxygen sensor (EGO); O2 (oxygen) Sensor; Lambda Sensor; Titania Oxygen Sensor; Zirconia Oxygen Sensor; Narrow-Band Oxygen Sensor; Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor (HEGO) (heated planar-type introduced by Bosch in 1997); Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor (UEGO) and Air/fuel Ratio or Wide-Band Oxygen Sensor (introduced by Bosch November 2001 and now available from NTK) are the more common names in the automotive industry.