Quick quesiton (sort of on topic) Will making a shroud for the electric fan that diverts the air to the side and out the wheel well or another area be beneficial than it being spread around the engine bay? Would this help keep temperatures down or would it not be that noticable?
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Originally Posted by slow7NC
(Post 7010652)
You should go to your local community college and take some automotive classes.
Dude, a mechanic is not the same as an electromechanic; so PLEASE stop trying to impress us with your mechanic degree and your AAP job...
Originally Posted by slow7NC
(Post 7010652)
Did I say that an alternator will put out max amps at idle? No.
Let's see what i said: "The alternator does not increase amps based on RPM solely."
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 6999035)
That is, a 70A alternator does not always "push" 70A out into the electrical system. If the electrical draw from the car is only 50A, then only 50A will be produced from the alternator.
Originally Posted by KNONFS
(Post 6999081)
I am not going to lie, since i don't know if thats true or not; however I know that has RPM increases, so do the alternators amp output.
Should I say thank you :rlaugh: or smack you :pat:
Originally Posted by slow7NC
(Post 7010652)
WOW! I said "solely". When I test an alternator while it is on a car, I rev the engine to 2000 rpms so that I can put a full load on it. Then I test it at idle and it puts maybe 50-65% of a load on it - the exact percentage I do not know.
Full load at 2000 rpms? I thought we already concluded that LOAD was applied through electrical draw, and NOT by rpms?!? :lol2:
Originally Posted by slow7NC
(Post 7010652)
By the way we are talking about batteries. A battery is part of the charging system - it is a capacitor and a power conditioner. If you say that a battery has nothing to do with it, then please please please go take an automotive class and stay away from car forums for 3 months.
Originally Posted by slow7NC
(Post 7010652)
because you are a moron
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Originally Posted by KNONFS
We are not talking about batteries
Originally Posted by RotaMan99
This is the reason why the electric fan is a SIDEWAYS Add-on and not an UPGRADE.
I like the looks of a cleaner, less cluttered, engine bay and so do many people. |
Originally Posted by NZConvertible
(Post 7010905)
The battery is just as important as the alternator. It's clear from your posts in this thread that your electrical knowledge is very weak, yet you continue to argue with people who obviously know much more about it than you do. Your snide comments and multiple emoticons are just making you look a bit silly. Please just stop posting. Read and learn instead. And don't get all pissy about it either...
On any case, I truely belive that the efan robs power myth has been busted; like it or not. |
If you just did it for looks then say so. I've never said it didn't look better. That's not what I was talking about, so what's your point? Full load at 2000 rpms? I thought we already concluded that LOAD was applied through electrical draw, and NOT by rpms?!? So you are trying to prove a point to something that I already stated BEFORE you walked in? Should I say thank you or smack you |
Originally Posted by RotaMan99
(Post 7010938)
He was refering to an electrical load. When he revs the engine to 2000 rpm, the alternator is spinning fast enough to put out its full potential
I understand that, and I mentioned it before; however either my english is not as good as I thought or he is incorrect. Reving the engine does not increases the eletrical load on the alt; yes I agree, it will generate more amps, but that is not the same as an electrical load. |
I understand that, and I mentioned it before; however either my english is not as good as I thought or he is incorrect. Reving the engine does not increases the eletrical load on the alt; yes I agree, it will generate more amps, but that is not the same as an electrical load. Did I say that an alternator will put out max amps at idle? No. Let's see what i said: "The alternator does not increase amps based on RPM solely." I rev the engine to 2000 rpms so that I can put a full load on it |
Originally Posted by FC13BINJECTION
(Post 7010687)
Quick quesiton (sort of on topic) Will making a shroud for the electric fan that diverts the air to the side and out the wheel well or another area be beneficial than it being spread around the engine bay? Would this help keep temperatures down or would it not be that noticable?
First, there isn't a lot of room to make a duct that could properly transition the airflow through a 90° bend and out the side. Next, even if you could duct it efficiently, the exit through the wheelwell would have to be fairly large which would significantly weaken the car's structure. Assume though that you managed to overcome the above issues- now where does the rest of the engine bay get air? Without the airflow through the rad you've got the engine/manifold heat to deal with...ignore that and your temps would skyrocket, especially on a turbo car. Much better I think to figure out a properly vented hood... |
Originally Posted by RotaMan99
(Post 7010951)
He knows this. He also knows the alternator doesn't put out its full potential at idle which is why he revs it to 2000rpm to make sure it puts out its full potential. He never said that sping the alt faster would be a larger load on it, and infact it actually indirectly could. say you have a 70 amp alt, at idle we will say it puts out about 60% of its potential which means it has a potential output of 42amps. If you are putting a load of 60amps on this alt, its no longer going to keep the battery charged, adn the battery will have to foot in the bill to keep up with demand, you spin the alt faster, this will yeild more potential output and increase the spinning resistance as well since it now can and has to produce 60amps.
He is saying here that the alternator output is not ONLY based on RPM. Here he meant exactly what he typed. Spins the engine (notice he didn't say alternator) to 2000 rpm and then put a load (Electrical load) on the alt because the alternator has a higher amp output potential. |
I guess I misinterpreted what he wrote |
Gain power no.. your car will still have the same hp and same tq before and after HOWEVER there is a possibility of acheving more usable hp/tq.. but I highly doubt it.. in theroy I think the change from clutch fan to electical is a sideways move I dont think u will loose or gain anything except more space
Dave |
Originally Posted by KNONFS
(Post 7010914)
...I truely belive that the efan robs power myth has been busted; like it or not.
Originally Posted by RotaMan99
(Post 7010938)
I must have miss understood you then. I didn't like working around the shround and I like that fact that I don't ever have to at any point in time.
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Originally Posted by NZConvertible
(Post 7011091)
If by "robs", you mean uses a lot of power, I think you made this myth up yourself. I don't remember anyone claiming that. But power generated by the engine is used to run an e-fan, and the same amount of work must be done by the engine to move the required amount of air no matter what fan is used. Most seem to miss that basic point.
What I've been trying to prove is that none of those are true; granted, by switching to an efan there will be a less than .25 hp loss due to electrical load, then again, by removing the OEM fan you are eliminating 1.5 lbs from the e-shaft, plus whatever drag is created when the cluctch is engaged. |
Originally Posted by KNONFS
There seems to be a misconception on what an efan do; some believe that you will gain HP, and some believe that you will loss HP.
...by removing the OEM fan you are eliminating 1.5 lbs from the e-shaft... ...plus whatever drag is created when the cluctch is engaged. |
When quoting me you've changing from easier access to better looks and back again... and the same amount of work must be done by the engine to move the required amount of air no matter what fan is used The clutch fan, at 2900 CFM at zero static pressure takes an estimated .90hp. Now at peak efficiency the clutch fan would be taking over 2hp while trying to pull a little over 2500 CFM. An electric fan will never take this much. Correct me if im wrong but I don't see how what your saying is true. |
Originally Posted by RotaMan99
(Post 7015031)
Even a 18 amp flexalite fan rated to move 3300 CFM at zero static pressure will only take an estimated . 45hp with 20% inefficency for both the fan and alternator.
Still, if we assume that both fan blade designs are equally as efficient, it takes the same amount of energy to move the same amount of air...Mechanically there is no double conversion loss as their is electrically. This has been an ongoing debate for years, which is one of the reasons that I made my e-fan myth page....which of course contains all the information mentioned in this thread already. :) |
SO what is a good alternator replacement for the FC 70 amp to remedy the E-fan electric draw issue while running a stereo, amps, subwoofers, with an Optima yellow top battery? FD? Same setup? mods? Aftermarket alternator? Would I need an upgrade to my alternator then with the Optima yellow top?
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FD alternator is also a direct bolt on.
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 7015944)
FD alternator is also a direct bolt on.
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I, as well, thought there had to be something else to do when swapping to the FD altenator other than just remove/add.
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Confirmation? Perhaps inaccurate as well--Verification please.
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Originally Posted by NZConvertible
(Post 7014958)
Welcome to my posts from five years ago...
Originally Posted by NZConvertible
(Post 7014958)
The fan is not supported by the e-shaft, it's supported by the water pump.
Originally Posted by NZConvertible
(Post 7014958)
But you're not eliminating this load, because like I said, the same amount of work still has to be done by the engine whether you have a mechanical fan or an electric one. You're simply moving the "drag" to the alternator, which is even driven by the same belt.
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Originally Posted by lax-rotor
(Post 7016179)
I was under the impression one had to alter the attaching harness, is this inaccurate?
Only if you have a S4, for the S5 is a DIRECT bolt on swap; this is assuming that you have converted the FD alt pullie to a V one. |
So for an S4, there needs to be a V pulley? What is that? What kind of modifications are needed for an FD to work on an S4 please. Thanks!!!
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I think you're overestimating the efficiency of the alternator and fan. 50% is probably close for most automotive stuff. |
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