|
FORD 80mm MAF conversion, has it been done?
ok, so now 2 of the 4 forums i belong to talk about the Ford MAF conversions.
my Iclub (subaru) forum, and here people talk about converting to the Ford unit. but, i never hear of anyone actually DOING it. they just say they are gonna do it, or they know someone who is. sounds like an urban legend to me. i want to know how to do it, so i can get rid of my stupid little MAF. i want to hear first hand from someone who has it on their car, and knows how to duplicate it. the guy who told me on the I-club says to search Google. the MAF should be about 200 bucks, and then get some variable resistors and put it together, but how? what up wit dat? chris |
Are you talking about swapping our the complete MAF assembly thingie for another one with a bigger inlet? If so, I dunno if you the FORD one can be used succesfully, but I'M JUST AS CURIOUS to know if this works! Cause I'd do it in an instant...anyone???
|
My Ford F-150 has only 20k mi on it, and it has been to the dealership TWICE because the MAF sensor failed.
The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back. :uzi: The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems. I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D. :D |
first off, it utilizes late 80s to early 90s mustang MAF's. the hotwire set up. the same set up on present day corvettes and Fbodies.
its not like swapping a 13b w/ yugo. its like swapping a self-closing door from a motor home w/ a door-less archway. people can get thru the archway faster than the one person door that you have to hold open. yes, the ford MAF swap has been done. but, its been done on Porsches. particualarly the 944 Turbo. they realize a 20-40hp gain. do a search on "Ford MAF" and theres one other thread from August 9 that talks about it. i bumped up that thread also. i want to see if the guy has had any results on it. chris |
Mazdaspeed7 has been working on this mod…I believe he even has his hands on the Ford MAF. Hopefully he'll have it figured out soon!
B |
I am still waiting for the Mustang MAF sensor, but it is supposed to be in the mail. I know basically how to do it, but Im going to wait until I get it working perfect on my car to post a how-to.
If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang. |
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7 I am still waiting for the Mustang MAF sensor, but it is supposed to be in the mail. I know basically how to do it, but Im going to wait until I get it working perfect on my car to post a how-to. If anyone wants to try to pick up one of the MAF sensors in anticipation, you want one from any fuel injected 5.0 Mustang. Brad |
So its not as easy as looking at a schematic and matching wires with each other? :bash: Well you do want to get a maf from a "fox body" 5.0 mustang or ?-93. The ford focus fr200 uses a maf from a 2001 cobra R. More air flow means more powa. - Gabe
|
shit forgot to say that this mod has been done numberous times to the v6 probe and mx6. It is a mod that helps that engine out enormously being it is only a 2.5 liter v6.
|
man this iss what im SAYIN!!!!
this mod has been performed over and over. we need to take advantage of this. weed...er, Mustangs are from the Earf man. (rusting away back INTO the earth) GOD put this hea for me AND you...take advantage man, TAKE advantage! youd think that the boxy style 5.0 GT would have the same engine and use the same MAF. but oh well, i cant wait to change this over on my car. make my intake and exhaust well worth the effort...maybe after the MAF swap, ill need to get a new ignition, and SAFC... Dizamn... i need more money... chris |
if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF
|
Originally posted by BigWoogie if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF I'd be going for ease of modification and price on this one. From what it sounds the Ford MAF is rather abundant, while I bet that LS4 MAF would cost an arm and a leg. I wish I could help with this one and chime in a bit, but I really really suck with electronics and wiring. Keep me posted on how this goes, I may attempt to do it myself if somebody puts together a nice detailed writeup. |
Originally posted by BigWoogie if you are going to switch MAF sensors, at least use a QUALITY product. Get the chevy Ls4 MAF |
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7 Well...the reason the mustang MAF is used is because the signal is VERY close to mazda's signal. I know an FC will run with JUST the Mustang MAF, no conversion box. Not saying it will run perfect, or even good, but it will run. I doubt any other ones would have the same result. The differences in voltages between the mustang and stock mazda units are very small, and more inportantly, linear. It simply takes the addition of a few resistors to make it work right. I'm sorry if that's a stupid question, but I really don't know. |
Of course ford and mazda are together but the mafs are different but this mod works and works well...I would rather see someone use an upgraded ls1 or etc. maf that you see in summit mags and shit. That would really seem logical... 5.7 liters of measured air flow squeezin into 1.3 liters of power not bad - Gabe
|
I REALLY want to see this mod done. If I had more free time, and a less demanding "cupholder," I would have done it already. I'm absolutely convinced that this is good for at LEAST 5-10 HP and probably more- but making sure it matches up properly is going to take some research. I'm working on it... but VERY slowly.
What I want to do is find the one that most nearly matches the stock meter... then make a wiring adapter for it. Do a dyno pull with the stock meter... swap them... and do a dyno pull with the mustang MAF instead. Should be interesting! Brad |
My concern is that the new MAF will read that you're intaking so much air....when you're really taking in more--causing you to go lean...and pop.
-Tesla |
im happy to see this gettin alot of attention. hopefully, itll get the real techies interested in makin this swap work.
the Ford probe seems practically identical to our 7. does that run a MAF? what about htat one? fords been usin our shit for a while. i mean, hell, the tranny in the SHO is a Protege' tranny or some shit...why cant we use theirs?! btw, the Granatelli sig. series MAFs in summit, are $380 a pop. im sure the OE replacements *dealer only item* arent much cheaper. last i saw of this, guys were makin this mod for the FB's. i remember seeing a thread for this in the spring, i belive before the board crashed or whatever happend to it, so it doesnt come up on a search anymore. oh well. i think, you should just wire in some variable rate resistors inline w/ the wires, between the MAF and the computer. and you could use that as a beta tester, vary the rates of the resistance, test. when theres no falter, its the right resistance value. record the value, repeat till testing complete. then, produce final product w/ fixed value resistors. mass produce, and share the wealth w/ the community... sorta like the internet revolution back in the 70s,80s, even 90s. this will possibly revolutionize 12a/13b/13bt tuning. i cant wait! chris |
i know this is totally out of the subject but it might be interest
my brother has a 89 celica gts with a lot of small electical mod he installed a 87 n/a SE MAF from a 7 i had for parts, he cut a lot of wires, solder resistor or something to make it work only problems was his engine would rev up faster that the cluth and tranny can handle, sending the rpm all over the place after 6 1/2 (or mess with the sensor)but it gave a good pull he plans to put it back in with a mr2 or camery v6 tranny with supra injectors/fuel pump (trying really hard to out run my 7) hears my question DOES ANY ONE HAVE THE MAF WIRE DIAGRAM AND VOLTS FOR A RX-7 MAF THANKS??? |
i cant belive that there was ever a car that had a LAMER maf than our FC's.... i guess the 89 celica has that title.
i cant imagine someone wanting to use the same part that im trying to get RID of...then again, FB's would love to have our AFM, not to mention LOTS of our FC parts. Mazdaspeed7; do you know of the Model type/year of the Mustang that we should gank the MAF's from? let me know whats up bro. chris |
Yo,
Someone needs to DO this conversion!! Anyone on the "Big List"? They say lotsa brains are on that list, whoever figures out how do a hotwire Mustang MAF conversion is gonna be a hero to the FC community. I've got an NA 1989 GTUs, and I always cringe when I see that tapered MAF attached to the Greddy intake. Maybe we can take up a collection and actually have some professionals take a look at the Mazda MAF's signals, and the Mustang MAF's signals and see what resistors have to be used, etc. I'm down with kicking down 20 bucks for the cause. I'm tellin' you, whoever comes up with the solution could make some money making little resistor kits and directions on how to do the conversion. KS 1989 GTUs "Suckin' through a straw." |
Hey, I am assuming you are talking about the '87 NA Air Flow Meter. It is not a MAF (Mass Air Flow) meter, but an old mechanical one, which actually responds only to air flow volume, not mass. Splitting hairs, I know. The 89-91 AFM works the same, but is different mechanically and has different wiring on it's plug. OK, going from the right, A-G:
A: Thermosensor voltage, 2-3V @68F. Warmer = lower V. B: AFM Sense, a 0-5V signal. 4 volts, engine off. 2-3V at idle. C: ECU Ground. D: Vref, +5V regulated, supplied by the ECU. E: ECU Ground. F: Chassis Ground (for Fuel Pump Relay) G: Fuel Pump Relay, +12V engine off, 0V engine running. Hope this helps. Post if you have questions. Irv, Keith's dad :cool: |
Keith, i know the Diff between AFM and MAF...crazy man. im just too tired to think about which one i want to specify!
thanks keith...er, Irv. i was just thinkin, maybe I should figure this shiznit out...i mean, how hard can it be??? since youve got the Mazda AFM figured out, maybe i can work on the Ford *cringes* (to think, i vowed id never touch a ford w/ a 10' pole) oh well, maybe, if i find some spare time and money...and brain power. hehe chris Edit: does anyone want an Extra credit assignment??? someone can spy on a Ford/Mustang forum and bring us some recon of a Ford MAF; decoded the same way Irv has for us on the Mazda AFM. do it for the good of the forum!!!! take one for the team! Edit2: check this out http://www.therangerstation.com/MAF_Conversion.html this guy talks about having a MAF recalibrated. he sent it to a company called Pro-flow. read about it, its easier than me explaining it to you. |
A. MISC. DIMENSIONAL & RELATED MAF NOTES, FYI: * Good MAF theory article: go to http://www.mustangworks.com/articles...ion-blues.html * 5.0L MAF: 82.2mm intake side of MAF, 55mm center area, 70mm output side, into a 70mm ID hose. The input hose is huge: 90mm ID. This MAF meter is calibrated to run with 19lb. injectors. * STOCK 1990 2.9L MAF INFO: The stock 45mm unit is the same part number unit as used on a 2.3L engine. Both are 71.2mm intake side, 44.8mm center area, 56.1 mm output side, feeding into a 68mm ID hose. The input bolts to the airbox. The stock MAF meter and computer are calibrated to run with 14lb. injectors. * The largest remaining restriction on the intake system is the inside of the 5.0L MAF meter at 55mm. Next is (in my case) the 1986 throttle body at about 58mm, finally the stock intake hose connecting from the airbox to the MAF meter -- 70mm inside diameter. I'd like the last piece to be larger, but I am not sure it matters that much yet. Using the 5.0L parts for this conversion enables an easy upgrade to a larger (5.0L type) MAF meter in the future, if needed. By the way, I read that a 54mm MAF sensor will flow 900 CFM. * Pat Kunz recommends that the MAF sensor be calibrated to the engine and injectors. This can be done by sending it to Best Products, Inc. (Pro-Flow). You can find out about them at http://www.pro-flow.com/. FYI, Pro-Flow has a product called the Optimizer that enables you to do your own calibrations if you like. Or you can install the Air Adjuster noted herein. * Ken Funk noted: "My stock 1990 MAF truck took a special O2 sensor. The NAPA part # is OS205. Its an expensive little bugger, cost about $90. From Kenny Funk [mailto:kfunk@utahlinx.com] I'll give you all the part #'s off of the sensor part of the MAF: FOVF-12B579-A2B AFH45-25 And the 4 digit code is: 9M14 chris (extra credit goes to me!) Edit: i just found out, its recommended NOT to use filters that use oil as the tack barrier (K&N). the air flowing thru the filter picks up the oil, and will deposit it on the hot wire element on a MAF and give you decreased performance. u CAN run the oil-type filter, but u have to clean ur MAF w/ windex and a pipe cleaner. and also, CAI will affect the MAF too. |
Update: Mustang MAF sensor conversion
As some of you may know, Ive been working on this for a few weeks. Ive had it idling with no error codes, but Im still having problems. The hot-wire Mustang MAF is very slow reacting, while the stock mazda one registers changes almost instantly. This leads to my current problem. It idles fine, but whenever you presson the gas, the car dies. I checked the O2 sensor voltage, and the car got very lean when it stalled out. The Mustang MAF doesnt react to the extra air fast enough, and therefore the engine leans out so bad it stalls.
I am going to try changing the sensor power voltage from 4.5V sullpied from the ECU to 12V from the battery, and see if I get better results. If that doesnt work, Im going to try to make an enrichment circuit using the TPS signal, and putting it on a timer to give the MAF time to catch up. |
i dunno if you want to put 12v to the maf, you might let the smoke out.
idea number 2 is good though mike |
LMAO!!
"you might let the smoke out."
Ahhhhh, yes! the majic smoke!! :D Very well put j9fd3s! Mike |
Alright, I tried putting 12V instead of 4.5, still no change. It still doesnt work. I have a few more things to try, but I am starting to look into converting from MAF to speed density, using stock sensors that are already on the engine, like the pressure sensor, TPS, and an RPM input.
|
I would like to see a straight shot to the TB. Meaning no MAF at all. like using a MAP sensor and converting it's signal to plug into the MAF plug on the car. souds reasonable right? If you can come up with a way to to just get everything out of the way of the air that would be great. how ever you want to do it
|
Originally posted by tweaked I would like to see a straight shot to the TB. Meaning no MAF at all. like using a MAP sensor and converting it's signal to plug into the MAF plug on the car. souds reasonable right? If you can come up with a way to to just get everything out of the way of the air that would be great. how ever you want to do it Im working on the MAF more today, I thought of another possible reason why it wasn't working. |
I guess that some people just need to learn from their own mistakes.
https://www.rx7club.com/vforums/show...threadid=30230 An aftermarket ECU would let you ditch the MAF all together. Thanks for posting so that others will not waste their time and money with this mod. |
the reason you have to replace the afm all the time is becuase ford is too cheap to put a burn off into the ecu...
mike |
Any updates?
|
This may be a stupid question, but what the heck.
Have you bench tested the 2 meters to make sure their voltage output is similar? A tuner mag did a hotwire conversion on Ford Probe with same plunger style airflow meter. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work. The hotwire set-up they went with provided voltage signals opposite of the factory unit. They then needed a 'black box' to change the aftermarket readings back to 'stock'. After that they also required additional sensors to also take into account the air temp, etc. By the time they were done, the price tag was around an entry level EMS. |
Originally posted by go_speed_go This may be a stupid question, but what the heck. Have you bench tested the 2 meters to make sure their voltage output is similar? A tuner mag did a hotwire conversion on Ford Probe with same plunger style airflow meter. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work. The hotwire set-up they went with provided voltage signals opposite of the factory unit. They then needed a 'black box' to change the aftermarket readings back to 'stock'. After that they also required additional sensors to also take into account the air temp, etc. By the time they were done, the price tag was around an entry level EMS. -Tesla |
Originally posted by go_speed_go This may be a stupid question, but what the heck. Have you bench tested the 2 meters to make sure their voltage output is similar? A tuner mag did a hotwire conversion on Ford Probe with same plunger style airflow meter. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work. The hotwire set-up they went with provided voltage signals opposite of the factory unit. They then needed a 'black box' to change the aftermarket readings back to 'stock'. After that they also required additional sensors to also take into account the air temp, etc. By the time they were done, the price tag was around an entry level EMS. |
is this the sensor that has a couple of 'wires' that go throuugh the center?Sorry I havent kept up with this thread ;)
|
http://www.splitsec.com/
This company makes MAF kits. They are just expensive. I have been given a 2000 Mustang GT MAF sensor to try to make this conversion happen. I just haven't had time to devote to it. I am working on getting it to work for a GSL-SE. It wouldn't be hard to get it to work with later models if I can get it to work with a GSL-SE. It can be done and I am convinced that it would help. I have yet to hear of it hurting performance when properly done. http://www.grmotorsports.com/massair.html All we have to do is to make it cheaper for ourselves. For the money that they want for the kit, I would buy a Wolf or work on getting a Haltech. But if we can figure out these circuits, then we could save a lot of money. Think of it this way. Get a MAF from a totaled out Stang, then build a Megasquirt. There is increased fuel and air. On a 1st gen, do the dual leading coil setup for ignition or an MSD. ll are cheaper than Wolf or Haltech, although not as easy or probably as good. But cheaper yes. |
People, stop PMing me asking if theres been any progress. There has been none, nor will there be. Unless youre an EE with too much time on your hands, its not worth your time or money.
|
People, stop PMing me asking if theres been any progress. There has been none, nor will there be. Unless youre an EE with too much time on your hands, its not worth your time or money.
|
Originally posted by Evil Aviator My Ford F-150 has only 20k mi on it, and it has been to the dealership TWICE because the MAF sensor failed. The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back. :uzi: The second time, I got a fantastic mechanic working on it, and he was honest enough to say that he didn't really know what the problem was because it had some really strange error codes on the ECU, but he reset it, drove it around for reprogramming, and told me to take it back in if I have any more problems. I have never had a problem with a 2Gen MAF in 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to use a Ford MAF, which IMO would be as stupid as replacing the 13B with a Yugo engine. If you want an upgrade that gets rid of the Mazda MAF, then get a Wolf 3D. :D I have a 2001 Ford Escape and never had a single problem with my stock MAF... then I upgraded to a 75mm high flow MAF and guess what, still NO problems. Everyone always gives fords such a hard time, but I've owned 2, the escape and a 91 escort... The escort was the ugliest piece of shit ever, was slow as hell, but hey it was a manual, i bought it for 500 bucks and after putting in a k&n and good driving i was getting up to 30MPG and had no issues with it at all. Ford just has a bad rep unfortunately :( |
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7 People, stop PMing me asking if theres been any progress. There has been none, nor will there be. Unless youre an EE with too much time on your hands, its not worth your time or money. |
Right-O!!!
|
what about the maf from a merkur xr4ti or thunderbird turbo? They are identical in construction to the s4 maf. any one ever try this on the s4?
|
Originally posted by MainstreaM what about the maf from a merkur xr4ti or thunderbird turbo? They are identical in construction to the s4 maf. any one ever try this on the s4? The rx-7 use and air flow meter, not a mass airflow sensor. The whole idea is to ditch the restrictive, slower acting AFM and replace it with a commonly available MAF. So far the 5.0 mustang MAF is loooking like the best bet. |
Vane Air Meter to be exact but you get the idea. The ford and merkur units are same in construction but are larger=more flow. Turbo coupes are quite plentiful.
|
Originally posted by MainstreaM Vane Air Meter to be exact but you get the idea. The ford and merkur units are same in construction but are larger=more flow. Turbo coupes are quite plentiful. |
sorry to bring up an old thread but why not just use a chebyy AFM?
|
Originally posted by Evil Aviator My Ford F-150 has only 20k mi on it, and it has been to the dealership TWICE because the MAF sensor failed. The first time, the morons at the shop tried to tell me that my K&N filter made it fail. They replaced it under warranty, but gave me a hard time about it. I'm sure that anybody here that has seen my posts KNOWS that I gave them a hard time back. :uzi: |
Originally posted by dDuB I have a 2001 Ford Escape and never had a single problem with my stock MAF... then I upgraded to a 75mm high flow MAF and guess what, still NO problems. Everyone always gives fords such a hard time, but I've owned 2, the escape and a 91 escort... The escort was the ugliest piece of shit ever, was slow as hell, but hey it was a manual, i bought it for 500 bucks and after putting in a k&n and good driving i was getting up to 30MPG and had no issues with it at all. Ford just has a bad rep unfortunately :( |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands