cant use the lim, i did it bc it looks pretty, was easy and it also has the unproven theory of the longer runners giving a bit more down low, as for the RE maniflod idk, and custom is way too much work for some one like me. im lazy

and you CAN do these swaps using the stock ecus

So....
 

I was debating whether or not to go ahead and do this, then I got a wicked good deal offered to me for the S5 LIM, FD UIM, TB w/ TPS and Elbow. I now have most of the parts to do this but am still sorting out the details.

The next step was to buy that spacer/adapter that Niko kept posting, I did that an hour ago.

Now I need to figure out the little stuff like the TPS, OMP, vac lines etc...

1)Can I use the block off plates from my S4 LIM on the S5 LIM? I think they are the same but I'm not sure.

2)The FD UIM has no BAC, nor does the FD TB have a thermowax device? Should I just cap the coolant line on top of the rear iron that used to go to the FC TB and the one on the back of the water pump? Is my idle going to suck without the BAC and thermowax or does the FD TB handle warmup differently?

3)Similarly the FD UIM has no air bypass solenoid valve or air supply valve. I don't have either PS or AC but does it even matter with the FD TB?

4)Is it easier/better to modify the mechanical linkage fore the S4 OMP to somehow work w/ the FD TB or is it suggested to block off the OMP and premix?

5)As far as the TPS goes, I plan to use the narrow range part of the FD unit spliced into the S4 harness.

I plan on going with a FMIC kit so everything won't be hidden under the TMIC.

I appreciate any clarifications or help with these questions.

Also, will the S4 secondary fuel rail fit onto the S5 LIM?

Seems like lots of work just to look pretty...

A 13BREW looks pretty, but its the performance that comes w/ it that most are after...

To each his own.

Rotory Power!

no not really too much work it only cost me about 150 bux and a few hours of research lol
umm.. theres alot more work and money involved in putting rew.
ll be just fine with the amount of power im putting down right now lol

Well, the lim looks to have larger dia. runners, but the upper doesn't look much bigger?...

FD UIM definitely has longer runners/design.

From fc3spro.com:

While the REW intake ports are larger, the intake runners of these motors are still about the same size. The 13BT intake manifold has a surge tank plenum which is found to create too much pumping losses because of its large volume. The 13B-REW intake manifold is a "Dynamic Pressure Intake System" which eliminated the surge plenum tank and has opposed-facing secondary intake runners. This new design enhances intake flow by taking advantage of the strong pressure waves inherant in rotary engines. The throttle bodies on the 13BT are 3x45mm, while the 13B-REW are 1x45mm + 2x50mm.

Images:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...owerIntake.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...3/Runners1.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...3/Runners2.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...pperIntake.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...23/Plenum2.jpg

Rotary Power!

Two things i like about the LIM on the TII is that the secondaries are mounted further up. And the runners have a curvature to them. If the ports were just as large on the TII LIM than they are on the REW wouldn't the TII LIM make for the better flow characteristics?

Also from what i gathered on this forum and other forum about the FD UIM, is that other than just being a better LOOKING manifold. The gains are minimal.

HOWEVER with the FD UIM w/ FD throttle body it does seem to also benefit as a cheaper alternative to getting better air flow vs custom intake manifold. WHEN the car starts to suffer from excessive turbulence in TII plenum from upgrading the 7s boost levels, etc. I can see how the FD UIM plays a better roll. Not so much in gaining HP, but more intake charge efficiency.

But that is just all ramble, ultimately there needs to be a formal study, with a dyno.

-Stock S4 TII With FMIC
-Stock S5 TII With FMIC
-Stock S4 TII with FD UIM & FMIC
-Stock S5 TII with FD UIM & FMIC

(reason why i added the FMIC because the throttle body changes and there would be no use for the TMIC, so to keep the test more equal in numbers a FMIC would be used so that the UIM sample data can be collected better)

-Modified S4 TII
-Modified S4 TII with FD UIM
-Modified S5 TII
-Modified S5 TII with FD UIM

(this test is to see with a TII with increased power, does it show a greater benefit if you add the FD UIM vs a stock TII with FD UIM)

I am pretty sure this test on a dyno would really be useful. Am I wrong? Probably i am. But at least it may help reinforce or downplay claims that people give without substantial evidence.

you could always custom mount an upgraded top-mount =P

I race in an organization that doesn't permit forced induction. I'm running an s5 with only exhaust mods, no internal mods with an rtek box. Still not sure after getting to the end of this thread if there is any power for me to gain after all the work to swap an FD upper and throttle body?

check out my website http://www.jjrmotorsports.com

i just finished putting my engine back in with the FD UIM.
when i have everything running and mapped i will let you guys know my experiences.

http://www.j-spec.nl/wp-content/gallery/rex/06.jpg
http://www.j-spec.nl/wp-content/gallery/rex/07.jpg
http://www.j-spec.nl/wp-content/gallery/rex/08.jpg

How would you fit the FD TB and UIM when your intake comes in from the left side and the inlet for the FD stuff is on the right side?

This is what I'm leaning towards now, I just hate the thought of going FMIC with 10 feet of piping. Can't be too hard to setup a bigger unit in roughly the same location as the stock TMIC. Add a little alcohol injection to be safe and call it a day.


Looks great Furb.

hmmmm
 

I'm not familiar with the FD intake or the any of the turbo cars and now that I see these pics, I don't really see how it's possible to make this work on an n/a s5.....

However, I am looking for any way to raise hp or torque. If you watch some of the videos on my website, you can see that I'm down on power compared to the other cars.

you could potentially run a 4 port S5 N/A and that might allow you to use the FD UIM. But if your racing sanction does not allow FI, i would definitely recommend a Bridgeport or large Streetport with ITBs rather than use the FD UIM.

Can you port the motor and use a standalone?

Not allowed to port or run itbs. I could use a stand alone but not sure it's worth it if there aren't any other mods.

I'm lucky I even get to run an RX7 with these guys, they hate it. They all run VWs, Hondas, and Nissans and get to bore, stroke, port, polish, cams, high compression, you name it. I knew the rules when I built the car, I'm just trying to play by the rules.

Not many people on here will like this but my next plan is to put a piston motor in it. Either a Miata or a truck engine. There is a 2400cc max with a 60 over bore. I would get a weight brake too. I just keep brain storming you know.

How much power do you have, and how much power do they have?

go 3-rotor instead of pistons...

I would say a well tuned standalone would probably give you 10-15 hp at least.

can you swap in high compression RX-8 rotors?

There has already been a dyno comparison posted. They guy used the FD TB with the FD UIM. And the FC with the FC.

From the looks of his chart, he gained 50 ft lbs of torque in the top end...
A lot of work for just looks huh?

Found it.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...FD+intake+dyno

https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i...icuk/dyno2.jpg

Look like gains to me, there is more than just looks there. Worth it?.. You decide.

Rotary Power!

looking for power
 

[QUOTE=How much horse power....QUOTE]

I'm about 155rwhp and I will never know what the others are at. Only 2 other cars that I know of have ran on a dyno, niether are honest about it. One is a fully built 240sx, another is a fully built '95 Integra. All the others are built VWs or partially built hondas.

I can't run a 3 rotor, limited to 2. If I was going to spend the money on a a stand alone and another tune session, I may as well spend the money on dropping the RX8 engine in. There is a great thread going on right now about that.

---Sorry, I'll stop the thread jacking now---

totally badass nice find on that info

actually i thought the same thing until i i found a large izuzu npr intrecooler i front mounted it and used just less then 4 ft of piping and it has minimum bends

Furb that is sexy.

I am toying with the idea of using the same IC. it mounts very nicely inforont of the rad.

yeah it fits great and the way the end tanks come out its perfect. its also huge on 100+ degree days iv never seen ait higher then 40C

we get a lot of those 100+ days here. I'd like to do that mostly for the "non-boost" driving. My AI system alone works better than any intercooler... But in the summer, out of boost, the temps climb here.

I like the idea of having a little insurance if something went wrong with the AI, but the intercooler will actually hurt my current AITs. My pre compressor jet will be useless if that mixture then has to go through a physical intercooler... That is what I suspect at least.

It won't be useless, it'll have the effect of not letting the air temp rise as much through the intercooler as if you didn't have it.

Intercoolers are just temperature percentage modifiers. Cooler air in means cooler air out, even if the intercooler acts to heat the air up.

i will do some tests once I get the intercooler, but through the tests I've done already, the pre-compressor jet is the one that effects the AITs the best. The Post-Compressor jet is more for knock deterrent... that's why it's a larger jet.

What I am expecting is that the awesome drop I'm seeing in AITs will be neutralized by the intercooler. And I will only see a moderate drop in AITs.

I am curious to see the difference between an intercooler with the pre-comp jet and an intercooler without the pre-comp jet.

What you're expecting should pretty much be on the money.

sucks too, I am so proud of my non-IC AITs... :(

Im am doing this too. I just orderd my spacer last night! But i do have some questions..
How do i rewire my s4 T2 harness to work with the fd tps?

I am missing the connector for the tps . Can i make my own or do i have to find the conector?

ummm where did u find a s4 adaptor? no one makes them. To hook it up ull have to search for the wiring, its simple. ull also have get a FD tps connector, along with mocking up a custum way to allow the mechanical omp to work, ull have to shorten the oil fill tube and modify the fd upper mounting holes

There is a guy in greece selling the s5lim to s6 uim adapter kit all day long! He even sent me a pic of where and how much material has to be added for the studs to work.

yes but if you read the description says -only for s5- because the s4 has different ports....:wallbash:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=300296183470

do you have s4 or s5 lim?:scratch:

Okay so while I am waiting for the spacer to arrive I am trying to figure out the FD UIM vacuum system. I took some pics so hopefully you guys can tell me if I am on the right track.




http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../100_19382.jpg
These three nipples go right into the intake runners so these should all get boost/vacuum right? Okay for boost gauge/controller or BOV vac sources?




http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../100_19402.jpg
A) Is this the air intake temperature sensor? How do I hook it up to my harness?
1)vacuum???
2)vacuum???
3)vacuum???
4)vacuum???


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../100_19422.jpg
5)Pressure Sensor Vac Line
6)vacuum???
7)vacuum???
8)solenoid???
9)solenoid???
10)For brake booster?
11)Double Throttle - can I still use this?

I just need to know which nipples see vacuum and which see vacuum and boost so I can hook up the following items:


Boost Gauge
Boost Controller
BOV
Pressure Sensor
Oil Injector Spider
Fuel Injector Bleeds
Purge Control Valve

pic one yes vac nipples
A. yes ait sensor
1.vac
2. probly for the brake booster idk i blocked it off and used the large one on the top pic
3. vac
4. vac
5. vac
6.vac
7. vac
8. BAC i dont use
9. IAC? mines blocked off
10. i think is part of 9
11. i removed

thats at least how mines set up

Thank you very much sir. I do appreciate it.
:icon_tup:

most of those vac lines i do have blocked of tho

Right, I just need vacuum for a for things.

is there anyway to retain the double throttle system? or do you need a specific FD solenoid and ecu for it to work?

idk i just removed it along with anything else that complicates things lol

Alright, well thanks again for the info.

I just looked up the TPS rewire info, does this look right?

When looking directly at the FD TPS (when the push tab release is up), there are 4 pins.
1 - Ground
2 - Signal (Narrow range)
3 - (+5V)
4 - Signal (Full range)


Series 4 TPS Wiring---Series 6 TPS Wiring---------Series 6 TPS pin

Orange (+5V)---------BR/W - 5V+------------------3 - (+5V)
Green/Red Signal-----G/R - Narrow Range TPS---2 - Signal (Narrow range)
Black/Red Ground-----BR/B - Ground-------------- 1 - Ground
-------------------------- B/G - Full Range TPS-------4 - Not Used


I don't have the FD TPS connector though.

I cleaned up the UIU today, removed the double throttle valves and all the useless solenoids and crud, even ground off a few pieces of brackets to smooth it out a bit.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d/101_6481.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d/101_6482.jpg

NJ what adapter are you using to bolt it to the s4 lim? and does the TB elbow clear the ps pump?

I'm using a S5 LIM and an adapter from ebay. I don't have power steering.

did you match the ports on the s5 lim to your s4 block?

No I didn't touch the ports on the LIM.