jdonnell

iTrader: (1)

I'm near ready to start my rebuild on my NA 90'. I bought Bruce Turentines video and it's pretty good, then I bought Mazdatrix's video and its also good. They both covered things (can't think of any specific items right now), but I'm glad I bought both videos to capture things I wouldn't have known about from just one video. Are there any other useful tips/recommendations that are covered in either DVD?

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

handle parts with EXTREME care.

learned it thru the hard way.

need-a-t2

iTrader: (9)

having seen neither of those videos, and doing 8 or 9 rebuilds now, best thing I can tell you is to make sure everything is within spec per the FSM and make sure everything is CLEAN when you are ready to start reassembly. This means cleaning everything! All the carbon on the rotors, the leftover gunk in the cooalant oring grooves, and the sediment in the coolant passages. Pay special attention to where the dynamic seals sit as any gunk could cause them to bind and not seat properly once assembled. I typically spend 15+ hours cleaning and about 2 hours for the actual assembly.

another tip. the oil control orings are a PITA sometimes, especially if you get the viton RA seals. you can usually get one side of the seal in properly, then you can work your way around the seal with a small rubber mallet GENTLY tapping it into place. Just make sure it's slathered in oil so you don't pinch the oring. also remember that the springs under the oil control rings, as well as the side seals are directional, so make sure they get installed the correct way!

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

And watch out for the control rings, they are sharp! I shredded my fingertips putting them in. Also, Do NOT jet the eccentric shaft with weber jets, unless you are high rpm track only. I watched the bruce turrentine video while I built the motor in my apartment.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Here's another rebuild video that may offer a few more tips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijJeUk_GqiI

I'd just generally recommend avoiding Viton oil o-rings and go with stock. The OEM rings slide right in without any drama.

Yeah, CLEAN is the key word. Here's two more videos showing an engine disassembly and how I clean things:

Disassembly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MXfs_Srs4

Cleaning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5A5q61bzRI

arghx

iTrader: (3)

yes OEM oil control rings fit better than aftermarket.

jdonnell

iTrader: (1)

Great info! appreciate the words of wisdom. Right now I have all OEM gaskets. I figure going 196K on original seals is reason to stick with OEM. The additional videos posted are really helpful too. Thanks!

Once I get my hoist I'll start.

jdonnell

iTrader: (1)

Aaron Cake, how much does that transmission weigh compared to RX7? I was thinking removing engine only, but now reconsidering removing both eng-tranny together after watching the video. All the searches say it's easier, but seems like alot more work.

StevenL5975

@ Aaron Cake

As I am going to tear down a S5 13B T2 engine tomorrow with a friend i watched your video (the 1 hr long one).
Highly recommended to watch in full resolution on 69" beamer image
Your video is bookmarked, downloaded and archived to DVD-RAM hehe
It is really great done, lots of usfully tipps, I really like it but I have a few questions left.

Why do you use assembly lube instead of engine oil ? When I am doing a piston engine
I like to use the same type of oil which will afterwards be filled in.
Reason: It protects from rust, lubes and does not contamine the engine oil too much like some other type of grease/oil.
OK Vaseline is usfully to stick seals and other stuff in place. But why assembly lube ?

Are the side seals interchangable, so if you have done one with the dremel, will
it fit all sides of the rotor ? So I have to place a mark, side seal X going to place Y etc ... ?

Oh and of course, what kind of color do you use to paint the housings and irons ?
Aluminium spray ? Is the black color sprayed or typical 2K engine color applied with pencil ?


I used on a V6 stainless steel paint with brass painted bolt heads. That gets a nice contrast. I think stainless/brass would look also nice on a rotary.
Attached 2 pics showing V6 parts out of my delorean, painted and ready to mount.


Regards
Steven

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

My guess is it weighs the same as the TII transmission, so just under 100 LBs. I only removed them both together because the older rotarys mount on the front cover. Generally for a 2nd gen I drop the transmission (because I replace the seals, clean it up, etc.) and then pull the engine. Easier to do since the later 13B mounts on the middle iron.

If you want the full quality WMV (640 x 480, about 450MB) let me know.

Assembly lube is thicker and designed to cling to surfaces. It also contains additives (phosphates and such) for protection of fresh surfaces during the first startup. Assembly lube can sit in an engine for years and not drip off surfaces.

A freshly built rotary will have it's oil changed after about 500 miles/KM anyway.

Because Vaseline is the "glue" while assembly lube is the actual lubrication. Vaseline just keeps things in place and provides minimal lubrication.

Once clearanced, a seal should only be installed in the groove it is clearanced for. If it is swapped around, the clearance my change. However, if you screw up a seal and make it too loose, try it in one of the other grooves because it may fit and might still be usable.

I blasted the parts with crushed glass and then used POR-15 engine enamel. See this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-0Yl_Jlx1w

DeLorean you say! Well then, we have plenty in common:



DeLoreans are what got me started with cars and I've almost bought one roughly 10 times. But with all the other projects I am doing I figured it would just stay in storage. Now, once I finish my '76 Cosmo, it is DMC-12 time! Of course, the first thing I'll be doing is tearing out the PRV.

jdonnell

iTrader: (1)

When you assemble, can you do a littles each day, or do you have to get it all together and tension bolts torqued in one day. I saw some u-tube video that said once you start you are committed to finishing that day, but didn't say why? I assumed because the inner and outer housing o-rings?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i suppose you could, in theory, but why would you want to? it really makes no sense. i average 2 to 3 hours for an assembly when everything is cleaned and organized ahead of time. i suppose if i rushed, maybe i could do it faster, but i'd rather do it right. i remember assembling an engine a while back and forgot to put the o-rings for the dowel pins. yeah ... disassembly, re-clean and re-assembly for 4 bloody glorified rubber bands. not cool! anyway, my point is it can be done in a few hours, so there's no reason to strecth it over days.

if you really must spread it out over days, you could assemble the block one day, check the endplay and assemble the oiling system and front cover the next. i've had to do that before while waiting for parts.

as for reasons why you wouldn't want to do a little and then get back to it tomorrow, there are places that you use silicone (the housing legs), so i'd think you wouldn't want it to fully cure before torquing the parts down.

StevenL5975

Thank you Aaron for pointing that out. Now its clear.

I watched the mazdatrix video, for the fact its labeled as "Entertainment only" its pretty accurate and informative. >lol<

They are using Hylomar to further seal the water o ring seals and oil pump housing.
Seems like good stuff, I will give it a try.

I would be happy to have the wma video. I will send you a PM.
You dont know by hazard how much a 13b shortblock weights without fluids ?

Make sure sending me the B28F PRV before putting in a 20B PP

Just do it. You will feel if its the right car to pick. There arent many left.
But be prepared for some serious stupid questions and comments.
The first one I touched was the one I bought.

Steven

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

you can, as long as you're using Hylomar NOT silicone like whoever the dumbass was who build the engine in my car.

if you're torquing the bolts ... why can't you just finish it before you leave?

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Good thing about Hylomar is that thing never dries. So you can apply it on the seal groove, go travel around the world, come back and its still "wet."

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

The only problem is that the Hylomar you can get these days is different from the Hylomar available 10 years ago. The Hylomar sold now does actually dry to a stiff and sticky consistancy, so unlike the old stuff the parts must be Hylomar'ed just before they are to be assembled. The old stuff could be put on the prior day or whatever because it never really did dry.

Everything needs to be in order before the build because the sealants used all have limited wet times.

Maybe I can set up a Torrent or something so I'm not sending out multiple 500MB files every day.

As for the weight, about 175 LBs.

Meh, nothing to special about the PRV. I'd just as well send it to scrap. There are already a million in Volvo's at the wreckers...DeLoreans are pretty easy to find if you know where to look, and yes, the comments are amazing. Same deal with the RX-7 though.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I'd love to see a torrent setup. Or when you have time I'd like to the 500MB file.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

I don't know what the original Hyolmar was but they stopped selling them for a while in the US until the "new" formula came out. That's what I read a while ago.

Maybe the overseas one still has "original" formula ?

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

did some research on Hylomar

http://www.hylomarsealant.com/_resou.../products.html

hmm, so they swapped some products name around ? hmm, maybe i should go get the advanced formula.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

^So, Universal Blue is the formula sold in rotary rebuild kits and who's formula changed. The Advanced Formula is the one most similar to the old formula and does not harden?

Good Find

jdonnell

iTrader: (1)

Well, when I read years ago they were changing the formula, I bought a couple tubes: One says 'UNIVERSAL BLUE RACING FORMULA' and the other tube just says 'HYLOMAR'. Sounds like the racing formula tube is the one to use?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

did some research on Hylomar
http://www.hylomarsealant.com/_resou.../products.html
hmm, so they swapped some products name around ? hmm, maybe i should go get the advanced formula.[/QUOTE]

I think the closest to the old style Hylomar (which used to be called "Universal Blue Racing Formula" or something like that) is Hylomar M.

The stuff included with some of the rebuild kits (Atkins off the top of my head) is a newer style called "Universal Blue" and it dries out. Not a big deal, but something you need to be aware of when assembling. Instead of spooging it on the seals directly, it is probably easier to lay a bead in the o-ring groove and then on the flat opposite surface. Just don't get carried away with the amount.

Just a random bit of info: I finally watched the Atkins rebuild video last night and noticed it is only a basic video. It doesn't cover things like measuring and inspecting, nor does it cover clearancing side seals. That's not to day it isn't a good video, it just excludes some things. The Bruce Torrentine video also skips clearancing side seals.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

once you've cleaned, inspected, measured, and fitted the seals, it only takes about an hour to stack the housings. its just not that hard/complex/time consuming. the cleaning part IS hard and time consuming.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i like assembly lube better than oil, just because the surfaces are FLAT and the oil/lube needs to stay out of the water seals. other than that oil works fine.

vaseline is totally optional, there is actually no need for it at all. at most a little dab around the triangle piece of the apex seal is all you need, and assembly lube works just as well there

side seals: if you're buying new there is one part number, so new ones will go anywhere. however the seal slots in the rotors DO move around a lot, so once you have fit it to a slot, it should stay there! think of it like a piston ring, once you've fit it to a cylinder you keep it there.

the rotors are marked, each rotor face has a number stamp, 1,3,5 and 2,4,6. you just need a little box/seal case that is also numbered, and its very simple