live4boost

iTrader: (2)

OK I test my new starter twice, and found out that it is fine. I cleaned all my connections, and regrounded most stuff that I could find.

I have narrowed it down to a short in my wiring. Every time that I turn the key to the accessory position, my starter fuse blows. Can I just rewire the whole starter system. I was thinking of just putting a push button starter switch in there to eliminate the short.

My question is what power wire most likely has the short? The positive power wire is a constant power supply right? And the smaller wire is the remote? My fuse doesn't blow until I turn the key to the accessory, so would the short have to be in the remote wire? And where does the constant power come from? Straight off of the battery?

Thanks for any input.

I haven't driven my car for a month, and miss her a lot.

HAILERS

Go to your positive terminal on your battery. Measure eight inches down from there and you will find there is a wire that breaks out from the harness and heads for the fuses in that black rectangular fuse box in the engine bay next to the l/h strut tower. See if that connector is viable i.e. not shorted out there at the connector. I take it that its the 80 amp fuse that is blowing????? In the engine bay???????? If that connector is good, look under your trail coil/igniter assy and you will find that there is a BLUE connector with a jumper wire coming out of it. Take that top half of the BLUE connector off that has the jumper wire. Now with a good fuse, turn the key. If the fuse did not blow, then the short is from that BLUE connector to the starter solenoid. It would be the black wire with a white stripe that goes from thE BLUE connector to the starter. Straight shot. No connectors inbetween. If the fuse still blows with the BLUE CONNECTOR disconnected, then go to the INTERLOCK switch that is attached to the clutch pedal, and disconnect it. The wires on the connector are BLACK WITH A RED STRIPE and the other wire is BLACK WIRE WITH A GREEN STRIPE. Only two wires. With that connector disconnected, turn the key. If the fuse still pops, take a look at the key assy. NOTE: I have had the connector located near the battery, that was first mentioned above, melt the wire at that connector. Don't remember what was causing the short. Slept since I fixed it. If none of the above works, I can assure you several real electricians will contact you. EDIT: If you have the factory theft system, then the BLUE CONNECTOR will have a relay connected to it. I hope you do not have the theft system. Anyway if you do, then in lieu of the jumper being disconnected, disconnect the relay from the plug and continue on as before. EDIT; If the fuse you are popping is not the 80amp fuse, then please identify the fuse that is a poppin. Looking at the start diagram, the only fuse should be the 80 amp fuse. Only fuse that is in the starter circuit is that one. FOR TURBO CAR THE ABOVE

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

I knew that you would come through hailers. The only problem is that the fuse that is popping is in the fuse box that is by the clutch inside the car. It is only a 10 amp fuse that is labled starter on the diagram on the cover. I didn't know there was one like that until I was looking through all the fuses. I have a 87 TII if that helps any. I did notice that that furst wire that you described that was going to the main fuse box in the engine, the insulation was melted on part of it, and was exposed, so I taped it up with electrical tape. I there any other ideas?

What about straight rewire to the starter. Using one of the push button starter switches?

HEVNSNT

iTrader: (3)

If the wires are melted then it was not properly fused. The fuse should have blown well before the wires would have melted. But since it is already melted there may be another area where the wire melted and is in contact with ground/chassis. Follow the wire and make sure it is isolated from ground/chassis. Good luck.

HAILERS

Well, forget about the first post then. Question: is this 10 amp fuse on the third row from the bottom, at the end of the fuse row towards the rear of the row??? Second: Does your car have a theft protection unit??? Third: If you do not have a theft unit on your car, go to the trail coils located near the brake and clutch master cylinders, and look for a large, very BLUE connector with a jumper wire in it. Disconnect the jumper half of the connector and with a new fuse, turn the key to start and let us know what the results are. Fourth: If you do have theft unit on your car, look around and under the trail coil assy for a BLUE CONNECTOR attached to a relay. Disconnect the relay and turn the key to on and let us know what happen. NOTE : The coil unit is only held in place with three 10mm nuts. Then you lift it out of the way to see the BLUE CONNECTOR. There is always a chance its the key assy, but I think not. I'll be around for a few hours tonite if you have time to look at he above. EDIT; Sorry, I have no cover on my fuse box.

HEVNSNT

iTrader: (3)

I just reread your post. You indicated that the fuse only blows when you put it in accessory? So does that mean your not cranking the engine over but just put it in the accessory position?

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

Yup, I just turn the key to accessory and BAM blown fuse. Then it won't even turn over w/o that fuse.

Hailers: Im at work right now but will test it out tomorrow. The car has an aftermarket alarm system would this play a role in my problems? I will look at the wires you spoke of tomorrow AM, so please check back. THanks for the help guys

All this **** didn't start happening until I had my damn starter rebuilt.

HEVNSNT

iTrader: (3)

"All this **** didn't start happening until I had my damn starter rebuilt".

Did you ever get the car started after the rebuild?

Don't wanna make assumptions here but I think you just answered your own question. Pull both leads off your starter (make sure leads are not touching chassis) and try cranking the starter again. If fuse blows the problem is not in your starter. If fuse does not blow then the problem is in your starter.

If fuse does not blow:
1. Do you have the leads connected right?

2. There maybe some loose wires at the connection terminals that make contact with the starter casing.

3. Starter rebuilt poorly.

HAILERS

HVNSNT.. I shoulda noticed that part about the key to acc. Yes, the aftermarket theft unit might be the problem. I keep talking about a BLUE CONNECTOR near the trail coils and a jumper. Well the cars with no alarm system have a BLUE CONNECTOR with a jumper wire, Those cars with an alarm system have a relay in lieu of the jumper to the BLUE CONNECTOR. If the relay is there it could have a dead short in it. On the other hand if this is an aftermarket theft unit, they might have tied their unit into the BLACK wire with a GREEN stripe, and their unit might be shorting out.One thing I know for sure, is that if you pull the relay or the jumper plug off the BLUE CONNECTOR, and put a volt/ohm meter on the BLACK wire with a GREEN STRIPE, with the 10amp fuse removed, you should not show a short on the wire or any sign of resistance. Wish someone would post a picture of the wiring diagram for the start circuit on a turbo. Its a really straight forward schematic and you would readily see what I'm talking about. The 12v starts at the 80a fuse under the hood. Then it goes to the key switch. Then it goes to that 10a fuse. Then it goes to the BLUE CONNECTOR, which will have either a jumper in it or a relay connected to it(I've never seen this relay in person, only in the ffsm). EDIT; If the relay pulls in, a set of contacts will pass the juice from another circuit to the BLACK wire with a white strip, which goes to the starter.

HEVNSNT

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info. Sorry I only briefly read your post. But seems correct to me. A pic would be nice

Icemark

BTW if you have melted wiring you should be replacing the wire not just tapeing it back up.

When a wire gets hot enough to melt its insulation (350F+) then the metal (copper) gets very brittle and will eventually will have bad connections and/or broken wires instream, under the remaining insulation or tape.

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

OK last reply of the night.

Im finally seeing the wiring now. I think that I will be able to trace down the prob tomorrow. My stupid question of the night is, what do I do after I located the short? Just replace that section of the wire, or rerun my own wire? Well I will start on it tomorrow, but you guys have helped a lot.

Hevnsnt: Im pretty sure its not the starter. I had it tested many times after the rebuild, and my car did start about five times after the rebuild, but you never know. I will still see if the fuse blows with the wires disconnected from the starter.
Thanks

HAILERS

That fuse does not actually turn the starter. It feeds a relay that pulls in and a set of contacts on the relay feed the starter. That power source is from the 80amp fuse. Here's my last attempt at sending a wiring diagram: If it does not show up send me a email address and I'll attach it to the email: here goes......

HAILERS

Here's the

HAILERS

Here's the locations on the attached jpg at the bottom of this page. You can see item A-04 is located near the trail coils and by looking at the attachment on the other jpg, that your 10a does not go to the starter, but to a relay called A-04, which in turn pulls in and makes a circuit b/t the BW wire and the BG wire coming from the interconnect sw on the clutch. Your just interested in whats happening at A-04 and why the 10 amp fuse is poppin. You can see if the relay is pulled, there should be a open circuit and the fuse should not blow if the key is turned on. A lot depends on what the aftermarket fellow tied into for his theft device. Yu could just leave the relay out and jumper the BW and BG wires and the car should start without the 10 amp fuse being there . It would be out of the circuit if you did that. But the theft device would be disabled. Still a lot depends on how he did his wiring.

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

What risks are involved in bypassing that fuse?

HAILERS

Should be none whatsoever. All my cars bypass that relay because they do not have theft protection and hence no relay. On my cars they put a jumper plug in place of the relay. The jumper plug jumpers the BW wire and the BG wire. If, say, I wanted to install a Mazda theft unit, I would chunk the jumper plug I have, and install a relay in its place. And also buy the theft unit that goes somewhere around the passenger legs. You just need to find that relay and make a good jumper that will not short to some other thing. Or go to the junk yard and find a rx with the blue jumper plug and install it. Or buy one from MaZDA, or.......... By the way, I put a better picture in AREA 51 on this site at https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=56406 The only fly in the soup, is what the aftermarket guy did to the wiring. Might pose a problem. Maybe not. You'll find out tomorrow.

HAILERS

FUSE BOX:

Keith

Hey, guys. I know I am coming in a little late on this thread, but what the hey, I'll just make a few quick observations and leave you be. First observation, the starter fuse (3rd row from bottom, left side, 10A) will NOT prevent the car from starting. No theory here, just observation (Just had my TII running without it). Second, this fuse does NOT get power to it until the ignition switch is in the ON position. If the ignition switch is working properly, it is not possible to blow this fuse in the accessory position unless somebody applies 12V to the circuit prior to the fuse, no matter how many shorts to ground are in the circuit. Live4Boost mentioned that the car won't even turn over with this fuse blown. From the above observations, I would conclude that this has something to do with the aftermarket alarm system (the only thing that could keep the car from starting, since the fuse that blows supplies power to the relay that Disables the start function on the stock system.). So, unless something really horrible happened to the ignition switch/wiring harness in the steering column, I would look real closely at where the nincompoop that installed the aftermarket alarm system wired it in. (If you, live4boost, were the nincompoop, no offense intended ) Well, done observing. Good luck!

Irv, Keith's dad

HAILERS

Irv, its one am in the morn here in Tx and you live in Ga where its gotta be three am. Do you know where your children are??????? Any way, since you have the theft device and pulled the fuse, what you say goes. Either the Boob who put in the aftermarket screwed the pooch, or something else is askew. To test the starter, take the blue plug off the relay(if indeed there is a relay). Jumper a wire to the black wire with a white stripe, and with the car in neutral , put the other end of that wire on the positive terminal of the battery. The starter should turn over. Don't need your key on or the clutch depressed. Straight shot to the starter. Can't miss. If the starter turns over, then take a look at the interlock sw on the clutch pedal as described in the first of my posts, then the key assy
I humbly say that the working of the interlock sw puzzled me as to whether the contacts were made or not made without the relay being pulled in. My downfall.
By the way, jumpering the black and white wire to the positive terminal of the battery will not hurt anything. I do it when checking the compression on the car. Just make sure the car is in neutral or move your feet real quick when the car moves. Hey, we'll figure this out yet. Hope you have a meter. Would help. Darn, Irv, I thought I had it fingered out. Don't you Yankees ever sleep???? EDIT: Come to think of it, the interlock sw did fail on my 87n/a. It had a plunger thing that just gave up the ship. I jumpered the two wires that go to it and its worked good since. Irv does not have a interlock switch. Mazda cheated him on his car. Saved 'em a few bucks. Of course his car is lighter than mine by two ounces. That worth at least .5 sec in a quater mile. joke.

HAILERS

Attached, with any luck, is a picture of a interlock sw. If you have never had to depress the clutch pedal to start your car, then this is probably not your problem. Some cars like Irv's, did not have one.

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

The wiring on the aftermarket alarm is a mess. The previous owner had it on the car, but I don't think that he used it. Im gonna take it off anyways, cuz its no use to me. Lots of testing to do tomorrow.
Thanks guys.

Irv. I was mistaken, the key was prob on the on position when the fuse blew. I will check for sure tomorrow.

live4boost

iTrader: (2)

I finally got it to crank, but it won't fire up. I push started it last night, and it started up and ran great. smooth idle and ran great. Then this morning it would not start again. Im getting very frustrated. PLEASE HELP. Oh yeah when I drove it last night my In dash Tach and H/C gauge were not working. They did b4.