Kahren

iTrader: (13)

gonna try to answer all yoru quastions here...

all the numbers are sae corrected, the stock run that he did was with eveyrhting completely stock and only modification being was the K&n stock location filter drop in, not a cone, no tid mod or antyhing, he did drill out a few holes on teh stock air box to try to get some more flow to teh filter. its nto too hard to get another 10 more at teh wheels, when its slightly cold out on a turbo car. the stock HP # that mazda gave for the t2 are nto very accurate i woudl assume, the s4 and s5 t2s pretty much dyno the same peak #s but on teh s5 the low end is slightly better.

the resason he is seing so much power in the mid range and nothing up top is because the boost dropps off to about 10 psi at redline. and its 14 psi at 3500-4500. the amount of boost will follow the NAs motor tq curve since his boost is not consitent and he is gettign most boost inteh mid range that woudl explain his max power there.

i also belive that his turbo is dying and cant flow to its max potential so the boost dropps off harder then i woudl expect the other reason for this is that the exhaust housing on that turbine is TOO small for what he is trying to make it just simply cant flow and u cant make it do any more unless he gets a bigger one or atelst a higer flowing wheel. this is pretty much as good as it gets.

with a better condition turbo i belive he woudl be able to get some more power up top. but i am not 100% sure

also the stock exhaust housing on the s4 is smaller then that of the s5

we coudl have upped the boost from 14 psi to about 20 psi (thats max, wastegate beign closed all the time) but that woudl be stupid to get 20 psi in the 3500-4500 and then drop off back to 10 psi at redline.

hop ei answered all your quastions

RETed

That is not consistent with my experience...
I also run an A'PEXi Super AVC-R, and my stock turbo has no problem producing 14psi when I have it programmed for that much boost - it shows 14psi from 4RPM to redline, no problem.&nbsp I have trouble believe that turbo cannot produce the proper boost level if the AVC-R is working correctly.&nbsp To complain about a boost drop is suspicious.


There was another thread with almost the same kinda numbers.&nbsp I questioned that dyno run also.&nbsp The only thing that could account for the big hp numbers was the FMIC.&nbsp I found out later that the owner used ICE on the IC to get the big power numbers.&nbsp I suspect something similar, or it's not a true dyno graph from a stock FC.



-Ted

gsracer

I thought it was pretty much accepted there's no way a s4/s5 turbo is going to hold 1bar to redline. It should bleed off a few pounds towards redline.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

So you turbo PSI doesn't drop on the high side of the mid range?

I thought this was a classic issue on the FC's

RETed

Not with my boost controller on!
Did I write that wrong?


-Ted

$150FC

eh if s4s were underrated i think we'd know by now.

and at this point it's damned hard to find a TII on its first motor and stock, anyway

RETed

Not with my boost controller on!
Did I write that wrong?


-Ted

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

No, you wrote it fine. It's just that it was my impression that the boost would fall after the 6k rpms. So with a boost controller, the boost drop will be non existent?

Will a mechanical boost controller work?

TIA!

RylAssassin

Ya, those are the highest numbers ive ever seen for an s4 with those mods. Thats great to hear but at the same time almost hard to believe. I mostly cant understand how he gets all his power at 3500 then drops off. It kinda ruins the whole feel of the engine I would think.

BlackFC

I dont see how a boost controller can make the turbo flow more and keep up with the engine. My turbo (with a boost controller) falls off now, and has on my other FC, I also expierienced this with my 16g after I got cams in the Talon, it wouldnt hold more than 19 - 20psi to redline, all cars in question had boost controllers.


Jays 250rw was a real dyno, in 98+ ambient temps, with the car tuned rich as hell. Would you say Brian Cain or anyone running an A2W intercooler with ice in it on the dyno a "fake dyno" also?

Daniel

Bambam7

My stock turbo (which is now on it's way out) used to bleed like crazy- down from 12 psi to 6 at redline, now with the TII 4 port setup (instead of the NA 6 ports) it holds 10 psi solid till redline.. sometime it seems to beleld of a psi or 2, not sure why- it comes and goes.
Bascially, that's my proof that the 6 port setup flows much more air than the 4 port one. I had a hell of a time keeping boost down to 12 psi with it too, now it'll hold 10.

Fingers

Ummm... wouldnt that be because of your high comp rotors?

Infini IV

Wouldn't the stock turbo being able to hold a certain PSI of boost all the way to redline rely on how well the boost controller is at controlling the wastegate? But wouldn't it also be more dangerous as it has a higher chance of creeping while being held at that high a pressure while at that high a redline?

BlackFC

It would have something to do with the wastegate but more to do with the fact that the turbo has to be able to push enough air to keep a certian amount of pressure in the manifold.

Daniel

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

with the wastegate hose pulled, meaning the wastegate always closed the boost would drop off, u can get 14 psi all thru the rev range but it wont FLOW to its max potential, flow and rpressure are diffrent things, and i belive this is the max flow to be had with his current setup, turbo is the limiting factor here. those who ran 14 psi all thru the rev range, please show a dyno i am very curious to see. oh and also i am not sure how the s5 turbo woudl work under these conditions, i knwo teh exhaust housign is bigger so it should be able to have hold more boost to redline.

West TX RX-7

WOW, I was only getting 220whp with a cone K&N, fuel cut defenser, no cat, 3" DP and Apex N1 Single sided. I was running stock boost with no controller but still, man thats some big numbers for the factory turbo and no fmic.

T210thAnniv

OK, Please READ my SIg everyone, stupid ?s being asked and all you have to do it Read my sig!!! West TX RX-7... READ, I have a FMIC you dope... No this dynos Not inaccurate, i dont understand all the confusion here? Whats so hard to understand. My turbo is not efficent enough to push 14psi to redline, its just not big enough, cant push enough air to keep constant, also has to do with my big *** FMIC, its has to fill up that big *** thing. Im sure if i had a smaller FMIC, the boost would be a little more constant, but cause of this there is a big pressure drop.... Oh and about the stock run, all the had was a K&N drop in filter. thats it!! was still 5.5psi, cause i had a boost gauge, and YES the 88's were UNDER RATED!!! Ive seen many dynos of stock S4 that did 175-180rwhp.. MANY

RETed

My AVC-R had no problems running 1.00kg/cm^2 all the way to redline.&nbsp It has nothing to do with the turbo.&nbsp I don't run an FMIC, though.

I still don't believe the stock engine, stock turbo can hit those numbers.

Any word on ambient temps?


-Ted

BlackFC

Was this with your Vtrim compressor wheel Ted? People are hitting the 250ish range on the stock turbo all the time.

Daniel

RETed

No, I never had a V-trim.&nbsp It was a T5/T6, which is puny compared to all the other comp upgrades out there.&nbsp We tried all kinds of **** just to make 240 to the wheels, and I dunno how others are doing it - maybe the FMIC is the key?&nbsp I wouldn't think the FMIC would be that much of an advantage on the dyno.&nbsp Throwing ice on the IC on a dyno is "bullshit" in my book - you should understand that.


-Ted

BlackFC

Blowing your motor because your intake temps are ungodly as you have no other cooling then a substandard fan on a 100deg day is more bullshit. I told you he had ice on the core because I was coming off the whole story. A box fan + a core that was iced for 15 mins then not for 10mins before a run isnt making 30rwhp.

You said your "Stock" turbo would hold 14psi, and it wasnt stock. I don't know of a stock TII turbo that will keep up with a fully opened 13BT at 6500rpm.

I will be putting a clutch in my car soon, I would love to get with you when we get the car on the dyno and try to duplicate or better these numbers. We shouldn't have a problem as I have a S5 motor, turbo, and a standalone, and other than that pretty much the same setup. I don't want to argue with you, I want to make you a believer . I learned alot from you Ted, most of what I know about RX7's, and could still learn alot, but I am gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Daniel

13bpower

I just have to say that my s4 turbo peaks around 12-13 psi and drops off to 10 by 5500-6000rpms.

I believe everything he said. I am sure my car has more tq than hp just like his car. It pulls crazy at 3500-4500rpms.

T210thAnniv

First off, i put ice on my IC because the car sits in one spot for hrs and obviously that FAN is NOT the same thing as driving so the IC will got alot hotter then if you were driving it. Second, I dont get the **** if you dont believe my dyno runs cause guess what, ive been there, and ive done it!! FMIC actually WORKS RETED, thats why they sell them, and thats why people get them... 3rd, i am not lying about anyhting, i though i achieved a goal most people on this forum dont even do, they just bolt **** up and go, never dyno or anything, then ******* cry why there motor blew up... For all you none believers, look at my dyno!!! no i didnt make it up, i have better things to do!! i really dont have anyhting to prove to any of you.... like i said, i just want to post this to show people what S4s can do, and i achieved my goal!!! OH and this bullshit about the stock turbo keeping full boost till 7k at like 14psi, ya ok. Its merly impossible, its just CANT flow enough to stay up. I REALLY WANT to see DYNOS from these people who are "claiming this" just like i SHOWED my dyno. Actions speak louder then words

RETed

You people need to chill out - there is a BIG difference between calling someone a liar and not believing something.&nbsp I am of the later category - I'm NOT calling you a liar, so stop getting all insulted.&nbsp As BlackFC has already said himself, my experience is inconsistent with your experience so I tend not to believe it until I see it with my own eyes - it's only fair that way.&nbsp My experience shows it's hard to break 240hp to the wheels on a DynoJet.&nbsp The only difference is that we have only run stock IC's, and you guys run FMIC's.

I got a problem with ice on any IC, as my EGT's show that heat in the intake charge drops quickly after you lift off.&nbsp Unless you're using a puny fan (the pics don't show that), I doubt the ice is required.&nbsp If you got a problem with this statement, give me proof why the ice is required.

Sheez...


-Ted

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

the intake temp at the time of the dyno runs was about 100-120F according to the autometer air intake temp gauge. last time that we dynoed this car even without the ice and ambient temps at around 90 degrees the ic still didnt heat soak to over 110-120. this time with 14 psi it wanted to go hihger then 120 so we needed to take longer breaks and more ice to keep teh temps at a comfortable range. now if u think thats "cheateing" i beg your pardon, on the street on a very hot day boostign constantly i have yet to see over 120 on his gauge. and also the temps inside teh dyno room are sualyl atleast 20 degrees over of what is outside, ateast at the place this was dynoed at since the dyno arear is very confined. and even with the fans on it doesnt help. there is not much space to mount fans on the back of the ic and is not very usefull other then for strictly dyno purposes.