Ryde _Or_Die

Ok, so heres what I got:

Apex seal/spring kit from Rotary Aviation
Installation gasket kit from Rotary Aviation
Engine O-ring kit from R.A.(includes water/oil seals?)
12 side seals/springs(Mazdatrix)
Oil pump chain(mazdatrix)
Front pulley bolt washer
FC3S.org front oil pellet bypass(would I need the above?)
12 corner seals/springs(mazdatrix)
Front/rear main seals(mazdatrix)
pilot bearing(mazdatrix)
pilot seal(mazdatrix)
throwout bearing(mazdatrix)


So no stationary gears/bearings? Or rotor bearings need replaced? Why do you get the bypass pellet anyways if you don't mind me asking? Release bearing is the same as a TO bearing, right?


I definitely don't have money laying around. I just want my engine rebuilt correctly and not half-assed. I don't want it to last 10k miles, more like 60k or more.

Ryde _Or_Die

Thats my final list. Thanks to everyone that helped me out with it. I'll give compression results in about a month with how it went.

RETed

No, don't replace those bearings unless your orginals are BAD.&nbsp In this case, used bearings are BETTER than new bearings!


You get this part that replaces your original oil thermo pellet.&nbsp Remove your thermo pellet and replace with the new unit.&nbsp You can save some money by shimming the original oil pellet with 5 M7 washers; the washers should only cost you a few pennies.

Yes, the terms are interchangable.


Understood...there are ways to cut costs without sacraficing quality!

Good luck!



-Ted

Ryde _Or_Die

Thanks. I have found every part I need for $733.81 Cheapest place I found for a "rebuild kit" wanted $850+ and didn't include the external gasket set or a few other things. If I had ordered "kits" I would have spent $1000+ easy.

Thanks again everyone. I order tomorrow.

MaTT_FoULk

Why would it be better to have used rotor bearings as opposed to new ones Ted?

RETed

The used bearings are already worn down to the dimensions of the eccentric shaft lobe.&nbsp New bearings need to be broken in to work nicely - on rebuilds, this basically DOUBLES your break-in mileage/time.

See Racing Beat/Mazdatrix material (website?) for more info...


-Ted

hugues

that's a good thread to read.

I hope it gets to go in the archive for future easy reference.

hugues -

Atkins Dan

Correct me if I am wrong but Mazda's red water seal is square and in the pictuer it's a round 'o' ring ? If Mazda uses a square water seal would that make a better seal than the round one since that is what Mazda has used since 1974 ? Dan

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I just ordered a set of those apex seals, I hope they work well..

RETed

Once word got around on how to find those "cheap" teflon jacketed silicon o-rings, shops have been using them in rebuilds, as they are CHEAPER than the stock components they replace.&nbsp Hayes used to advertise (they still do?) they were upgrade seals that can be REUSED - this was the advantage. I run the "original" Hayes seals, and I've rebuilt my engine 3 times.&nbsp They seal fine, and I've had zero problems with them.&nbsp Over time, the seals starts to take a squarish profile.


-Ted

Atkins Dan

I would rather spend the extra money on oem parts than rebuild the same over and over. And PLEASE keep in mind that I am NOT attacking any body's work . Dan
sorry for dulbble post

RoninAutoBoX

Don't mind me. I didn't mean any harm, I'm just an *** like that sometimes. It comes from driving an automatic. Because I only have to shift twice per trip, it leaves me with a lot of time on my hands.

Atkins Dan

RONINAUTOBOX No problem it's just all in fun any way
Dan

88IntegraLS

Stupid question: Are you in any way a part of Atkins Rotary in Puyallup, WA?

RETed

This is an interesting comment...

Care to debate merits?

The majority of FC owners balk at the high prices that Mazda charges for their OEM parts.&nbsp To do a "proper" rebuild, it would require around $1,000 just in parts for seals and gaskets (i.e. gasket kit).&nbsp Add another $100 for other miscellaneous parts like pilot bearing, pilot bearing seal, throw-out bearing, hose replacement, etc.!

Now, if we could develop alternative seals and parts that would work just as well (or better!) than Mazda OEM, wouldn't that be better for all us rotary enthusiasts?&nbsp I like better and cheaper myself!

It's hard not to curse when Mazda wants $5 for some o-ring that'll slip onto your thumb.&nbsp I'd bet most FC owners wouldn't mind a cheaper (and better) part option...

Now, as a side note, we're looking to develop replacement seals, o-rings, and gaskets that will replace most most Mazda OEM at a significant discount.&nbsp We're doing the initial R&D on pricing and asking parts sources to see if we can pass the savings along to potential customers.&nbsp Now, we wouldn't throw all this stuff out there without testing them - of course.&nbsp So, we'll be running these parts on several cars real soon and keep track of reliability and performance.&nbsp I think most people will be pleasantly surprised at how much discount we will be able to offer over the Mazda OEM stuff.

Now, as for keeping with the mantra that Mazda OEM is th "best", I beg to differ.&nbsp Their paper gaskets are nasty, and I don't usually use them in my rebuilds.&nbsp Mazda changed over to silicone on their oil control o-rings - silicone is NOT the best material for sustained high temp and constant oil exposure use; do a web search on keywords "silicone, viton, test" and you should come across a web page which details such a torture test on both silicone and viton (hoses).&nbsp I was surprised to see that silicone degraded that badly.&nbsp FC3S.Org offers Viton oil control o-rings that are like 1/3rd the price of the "inferior" Mazda OEM silicone units - better price, better materials...what's not to like in that deal?

As for the Teflon encapsulated silicone o-rings as water jacket seals, I think there is enough evidence to support that fact that these are worthy options against the Mazda OEM parts.&nbsp I personally hate the Mazda OEM water jacket o-rings seals, as you can only use them once and them "delam" when you take the motor apart later (inners mostly).&nbsp Add the fact that both the inners and outers will stretch beyond reuse make them a one time deal - these Teflon units do not do any of that.&nbsp Being able to reuse these parts would be better for most people, don't you think?
-Ted

Mr. Gadget

Ted,

Your my Hero!

I spent the better part of the early 70's rebuliding Mazda's first rotaries in the US becasue of the wonderful OEM seals.

For the youngin's, Mazda in their R&D kept tearing apart the motors checking for wear. everything was wonderful. What the dumb ****'s forgot to do was run some motors long term. Every test motor always had the seals replaced. Well, thank god for flat rate, I made enough to buy a Harley in one summer!

AcidShock

iTrader: (49)

Bringing this back from the dead. I read through the whole thread and got the idea that the seals from Rotary Aviation were pretty good for the price.

As it is coming to the close of this month, their introductory price is going out and I am contemplating a rebuild on the project car. Does anyone have anything further to add or any horror stories that might have cropped up since about these seals? If not, I am going to put my order in for these for the upcoming rebuild.

AcidShock

iTrader: (49)

Guess not.

88IntegraLS

I just disassembled an engine that has 10 minutes on it using the real world seals and everything looks fine. The housings are starting to show signs of the seals bedding in in a few places as would be expected.

The reason the engine is disassembled with only 10 minutes on the seals is because I pinched one of those coolant O rings and had a fog machine on my hands. My whole driveway, garage, and part of my front yard were covered with steam!

To anyone using the teflon encapsulated silicone O rings shown above, MAKE SURE THEY FIT PERFECTLY. Mine were all a little too small and kept popping out of the grooves. I stretched a couple of them to make them fit and the one I stretched too much is the one that jumped out during assembly and got pinched. The other one I stretched (much less) was a perfect fit and had no signs of pinching. The first two I installed, I did not try to stretch, and were very tight. They got pinched slightly on their inner edges.



But the real world seals look fine, for what my testament is worth.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

I ordered a set, actualy i just today got my confermation number (weird i know .. got it at 11pm)

ive got there rebuid video, only hurd good things about them and i trust them, im gona run a set in my highcomp partial bridge project

RETed

I guess dan atkins is not going to reply anymore?


-Ted

Ryde _Or_Die

I guess not Ted, lol.


Anyways, my engine builder looked at these seals and said they look good. This will be his first engine using these though.

slow87turbo

goodluck as i am probably not far behind you for a rebuild and i love to hear about cheaper parts. price wise of course. let us know how it does.


ej

Hex7E

How did the rebuild go?

uRizen

iTrader: (2)

*Gah* I didn't know the current price of the rebuild kits was an introductory deal. Does anyone know what they're going up to?