diagnosing overheated rebuilt 13B-RE
10-30-07, 08:57 PM
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diagnosing overheated rebuilt 13B-RE
Well, first off, here's the car:
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/status-my-friends-black-91-fc-ported-cosmo-13b-re-533896/
I'm looking for responses from knowledgeable people, as opposed to opinions or random guesses.
Anyway, there is roughly 2,000 miles on the 13B-RE since I rebuilt it. Keep in mind that I used the Rotary Aviation Teflon encapsulated combustion o-rings as opposed to the stock ones.
This is what happened and it's definitely NOT something that I would have done, but it happened during my absence:
Apparently, a few weeks ago, my friend mentioned that something was slightly leaking and it was getting on the top of the plastic under-tray. He asked me what it could be, but since I wasn't there, I shrugged it off and said it was probably the oil cooler because it's been dripping slightly over time and onto the lower plastic under-tray. He mentioned it felt slippery. I just told him to check his oil routinely, and it's always been fine. I wasn't alarmed because the 2nd gen oil coolers tend to leak near the lower fitting. It was leaking in that area anyway. Well, it turns out that it wasn't oil, but rather coolant. It apparently got worse and eventually all the coolant was lost because the way he mounted his Koyo radiator, it was up against the bottom of the oil cooler and the oil cooler eventually wore away a small hole in the radiator. The leak was right near the oil cooler fittings. Also, when he originally put in the new rad., he didn't bother to put in the low coolant sensor because he hated the beeping soo much. This is how he ran out of coolant without knowing it. Well, I came over about 3 hours ago because he called me and said his car was having trouble starting. So, during my quick check of everything, I noticed the lack of coolant. So, 2 gallons of water later, it was full. So, noticing that it was leaking from somewhere, I took off the plastic under-tray and after pushing the radiator slightly away from where it was touching the oil cooler, I noticed that it had worn a pin-hole in the radiator and all the coolant was trickling out rather quickly. Long story short, apparently it had been run without coolant for atleast 100 miles and he said that the oil temp's stayed the same and the coolant temp gauge got slightly hotter and stayed that way. After I found this out, I called it a night. I mean, I only ported, built, and installed the engine for him. No biggie, right? lol. Also, when I showed up, the car started as usual for me.
So, here's my question(s):
Any tests I can do to find out if the overheating caused the irons to warp?
All I can think of doing isdoing a cold compression test, and then another one after it gets hot. Then I'll stop the radiator leak and fill it with water and check for o-ring failure (bubbles in the coolant, etc.). Other than that, what other tests can I do to find out if the block is warped from the overheating? This is basically my only concern with the car right now. I need to know what has to happen now with the engine. Either it comes out or it stays. If anything is warped, that means another 13B-RE longblock has to be bought and rebuilt (by me), and trust me, I do NOT feel like building him another RE already.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/status-my-friends-black-91-fc-ported-cosmo-13b-re-533896/
I'm looking for responses from knowledgeable people, as opposed to opinions or random guesses.
Anyway, there is roughly 2,000 miles on the 13B-RE since I rebuilt it. Keep in mind that I used the Rotary Aviation Teflon encapsulated combustion o-rings as opposed to the stock ones.
This is what happened and it's definitely NOT something that I would have done, but it happened during my absence:
Apparently, a few weeks ago, my friend mentioned that something was slightly leaking and it was getting on the top of the plastic under-tray. He asked me what it could be, but since I wasn't there, I shrugged it off and said it was probably the oil cooler because it's been dripping slightly over time and onto the lower plastic under-tray. He mentioned it felt slippery. I just told him to check his oil routinely, and it's always been fine. I wasn't alarmed because the 2nd gen oil coolers tend to leak near the lower fitting. It was leaking in that area anyway. Well, it turns out that it wasn't oil, but rather coolant. It apparently got worse and eventually all the coolant was lost because the way he mounted his Koyo radiator, it was up against the bottom of the oil cooler and the oil cooler eventually wore away a small hole in the radiator. The leak was right near the oil cooler fittings. Also, when he originally put in the new rad., he didn't bother to put in the low coolant sensor because he hated the beeping soo much. This is how he ran out of coolant without knowing it. Well, I came over about 3 hours ago because he called me and said his car was having trouble starting. So, during my quick check of everything, I noticed the lack of coolant. So, 2 gallons of water later, it was full. So, noticing that it was leaking from somewhere, I took off the plastic under-tray and after pushing the radiator slightly away from where it was touching the oil cooler, I noticed that it had worn a pin-hole in the radiator and all the coolant was trickling out rather quickly. Long story short, apparently it had been run without coolant for atleast 100 miles and he said that the oil temp's stayed the same and the coolant temp gauge got slightly hotter and stayed that way. After I found this out, I called it a night. I mean, I only ported, built, and installed the engine for him. No biggie, right? lol. Also, when I showed up, the car started as usual for me.
So, here's my question(s):
Any tests I can do to find out if the overheating caused the irons to warp?
All I can think of doing isdoing a cold compression test, and then another one after it gets hot. Then I'll stop the radiator leak and fill it with water and check for o-ring failure (bubbles in the coolant, etc.). Other than that, what other tests can I do to find out if the block is warped from the overheating? This is basically my only concern with the car right now. I need to know what has to happen now with the engine. Either it comes out or it stays. If anything is warped, that means another 13B-RE longblock has to be bought and rebuilt (by me), and trust me, I do NOT feel like building him another RE already.
10-30-07, 09:36 PM
#2
There's no way it ran 100 miles without coolant and isn't warped. I'd bet that it only ran without for a short period if it still starts, runs well, and doesn't lose coolant internally.
The only way to be sure is to break it down and put a machinist's straight edge on it.
The only way to be sure is to break it down and put a machinist's straight edge on it.
10-30-07, 10:22 PM
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That's exactly what I thought as soon as I realized the whole situation when I was over at his house. I was thinking, "well, the only way I'll really know is if I take a straightedge to the irons". Ugh. I guess I'm just looking for a way out of something that I put soo much into, only to find out that his "installation" of his koyo, as well as his negligence of the low coolant sensor is going to cause me to be the one that the finger will be pointed at when it comes to doing it ALL OVER AGAIN. Granted, I'll get paid, but I already did it once, and I did it right, so I don't feel like doing it ALL over again soo soon, all because of stupid negligence of something soo simple as a warning sensor that was removed, and not by me. I'm already backed up with enough turbo'd rx7 projects. I should stick to building my OWN engines for my OWN car that I will be building, driving, monitoring and maintaining myself.
Ugh. This sucks
Ugh. This sucks
10-31-07, 01:21 AM
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Game over
This was my final conclusion tonight after being kept awake for 2 hours as my mind wouldn't shut up about trying to come to a conclusion to this. I ended up recalling something I didn't pay enough attention to, as well as forgot about. After the car was running for a minute and I shut it off, I heard a hissing sound. I let it run again for 30 seconds and then heard the same thing. I also remember that when he was adding the water, I saw steam, or rather smoke I guess, coming out of the radiator as he poured it. The radiator also smelled really nasty when the cap was off, and when the car was running, and the hissing was going on, we smelled something really nasty. Kinda like the smell from a radiator of a car that blew it's head gasket and the oil, coolant, and exhaust are all in the radiator. Yeah, that smell. Either way, exhaust is getting into the coolant passage and either, the seal is bad, part of the block (or the WHOLE block) is warped, or both. Either way, it's game over for this nicely ported and built 13B-RE cosmo.
This was my final conclusion tonight after being kept awake for 2 hours as my mind wouldn't shut up about trying to come to a conclusion to this. I ended up recalling something I didn't pay enough attention to, as well as forgot about. After the car was running for a minute and I shut it off, I heard a hissing sound. I let it run again for 30 seconds and then heard the same thing. I also remember that when he was adding the water, I saw steam, or rather smoke I guess, coming out of the radiator as he poured it. The radiator also smelled really nasty when the cap was off, and when the car was running, and the hissing was going on, we smelled something really nasty. Kinda like the smell from a radiator of a car that blew it's head gasket and the oil, coolant, and exhaust are all in the radiator. Yeah, that smell. Either way, exhaust is getting into the coolant passage and either, the seal is bad, part of the block (or the WHOLE block) is warped, or both. Either way, it's game over for this nicely ported and built 13B-RE cosmo.
10-31-07, 01:29 AM
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I guess this leaves me with 1 final question:
I know the irons warp "easily" when overheated enough, but do the rotor housings warp just as badly? I would imagine that they do because coolant is the only thing that cools them, whereas the irons have 'some' oil to help cool them. Maybe the eccentric shaft, rotors, stationary gears, and anything else cooled only by oil will be salvageable.
I know the irons warp "easily" when overheated enough, but do the rotor housings warp just as badly? I would imagine that they do because coolant is the only thing that cools them, whereas the irons have 'some' oil to help cool them. Maybe the eccentric shaft, rotors, stationary gears, and anything else cooled only by oil will be salvageable.
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