sudseh

likewise (about the googling)...

still don't understand though... if it helps smooth the line between loss of traction and traction, wouldn't that be a good thing?

ddub

Interestingly enough if I google hipari the #1 ranked site that shows up in RX7club

sudseh

yah... I found that too.

Curtisleeyoung

Chorme why chrome? Pollised (AL) is better

RETed

If hipari is SO good, WHY ISN'T FORMULA ONE USING IT ON THEIR RACE CARS???
Duh...
They run "balloon" tires, so hipari is all bullshit.


-Ted

sudseh

I think it would be interesting to put two stock cars one with an scca legal tire/wheel scheme and one with the stretched tire scheme run an autocross course and see what different lines the cars required to get the best times. and of course which was faster overall.

diagoro

formula one also banned rotaries, so i guess those are bullshit too right? fuckign stupid argument.

Bigretardhead

ted, have you ever TRIED stretching tires? all I've done is moved 185/60R14 from a 14x5.5 to a 14x7 wheel, and wow did it make a difference. and this was before I even knew what it was or that it should make a difference, and they're not even that stretched.

as for why formula one doesn't do that... look at the sidewall stiffness between race tires and street tires. race tires are seriously stiffer. usually so much so that not only is it much harder to actually stretch them that much and make them mount still, but that it won't really make that much of a difference because they're so stiff already. if you look at cars that have stretched tires you'll notice that most of them are running street tires, something like falken ziex, or yokohama es100, or the like, not hoosier race slicks or whatever.

really? I've seen a few BMW's and porche's running stretched tires at local events. oh and also there was a class leading impreza STi in a recent "racer" or "sports car" magazine(I don't remember which) that was running some seriously stretched tires. it was silver btw, in case you want to go look for it.

umm... noone said anything about making the tires grip better. the only thing said is that it makes the tire respond better, so you'll be able to better predict what its about to do, and your steering imputs react quicker.

so before you blow it off just because F1 doesn't do it, go experience it for yourself.

ddub

Oh he wasn't saying it's a good thing, I know him personally and he hates stretched wheels more than anything, he just didn't know what hipari meant

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

oh i wasn't supporting tire stretch, I don't like tire stretch, I was wondering what this hipari babble is all about, but alas i googled it

I think formula 1 has certain requirements on sidewall size though.

RETed

You need to LEARN how to argue before calling it's a "fuckign[sic] stupid argument".
WTF does ROTARY ENGINES have to do with hipari???
NOTHING...dumbass.


-Ted

RETed

If you're using 185 wide tires, you've got bigger problems that worrying about ultimate grip out of your tires.


Please, before making untrue statements like that, do your research first.


Before assuming what I know and what I have experienced, you better figure that out before telling me what I do and don't know...


-Ted

Bigretardhead

wtf does this have to do with anything? first of all, this is on my AE86 corolla. socond of all, I'm just stating how slightly stretching the tire seriously helped the tire be more responsive, nothing about ultimate grip.

I'm sorry, whats wrong with my statement? you're saying race tires DON'T have much stiffer sidewalls than street tires? or are you saying that most people stretching tires using race tires tires instead of street tires? tell me what you found wrong with my statement.

so you have experienced it? you've taken the exact same tire, inflated at the exact same pressure, and compared it between two different width wheels? if you don't mind me asking what tires/wheels did you experiment with? please enlighten me ted.

he was just saying that just because F1 doesn't do it doesn't mean that its not good. his example was rotary engines...they are excellent engines, but F1 banned them, which in you're argument would mean that rotary engines are bullshit. seems like a perfectly valid argument to me.

and woah there ted, that kinda sounded like a flame......

RETed

Valid argument?
Lesse...
Hipari is not banned in F1.
WTF does it have to do with rotary engines being banned?
There's a maximum rim width and diameter.
There is a maximum tire width.
There is no restriction on tire aspect ratio.
Valid argument my ***.


-Ted

604Ryder

i dont agree with using improper tires... but a thinner sidewall does make a car more stable. Im pretty sure that has been proven before. stretching the tires over a rim will give u better handling ... not because of the method used ... because ur rim is physicaly wider. but u will have better results (more contact patch = better grip) stretching the rubber is not using ur wheels to their full potential.

As for F1 cars, its stupid to compare a street legal car to a F1 car and its technology, Ted u should know that. F1 cars wouldnt be able to operate with "hipari" for a number of reasons. But our RX-7 are no where near a F1 car or any other car in racing, so its just idiotic to compare them. As proof to my previous statment, most lemans cars have fairly big/wide wheels with thin sidewalls... but non use stretched out rubber, i personaly dont think its safe to use stretched rubber when putting alot of stress on your wheels

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

EXACTLY

BTW - How much more did you improved your times?

So why use street tires on a race course?

As i said, I haven't seen the stretched tires trend at the local SCCA events.

Are you agreeing that they actually LOOSE grip?

ultradef

Thats why they make tires in all different sizes. There is no way that stretching a tire will give you better grip than buying a tire that fits "correctly". If you buy wider rims, you usually do it for more grip, right? What is going to grip better - a 9" wide wheel with a 225 tire stretched, or a 9" wide wheel with a 275 tire?

Like I said in my previous post, drifters do this for a specific purpose and its NOT for more grip. Other people do it because it looks "cool". All else equal, a wider tire is always going to grip better.

Icemark

common Ted... watch the flaming!

ultradef

And why do they react better? Less sidewall. Just buy a tire with a stiffer sidewall.

Sorry, but when I'm on a track I'm looking for maximum grip. A wider tire will give you more grip, period. Personally, I wouldn't want to sacrifice grip so that my tires lose traction smoother and more predictably, as overall grip will be reduced with a narrower tire.

aznpoopy

he's probably a drifter

a smooth transition between grip and 'oh ****' is more important for them

Bigretardhead

I never said I improved my times. once again, noone said stretching tires improves grip, just that it makes them more responsive.

some classes don't allow the use of race tires.

no, just that it doesn't IMPROVE grip.

you're 100% correct. but noone said stretching IMPROVES grip, just that it makes the tire more responsive. that 9" wheel with a 275 tire will grip better than a 9" with a 225, but with the 225 the car will be much more predictable.

yep.

yep, smooth transition is more important that overall grip for drifters.

RXSevenSymphonies

iTrader: (2)

Yep I guess there is no tire sidewall requirement in F1. Although since the wheel bead diameter has a certain spec that means they can't make the wheels any larger than they are using now, so maybe they have to use a taller sidewall in order to comply with the car design regulations and the have the suspension the way they want it and still have the tires touching the ground?

http://formula1.com/insight/rulesandregs/14/498.html

12.1 Location:
Wheels must be external to the bodywork in plan view, with the rear aerodynamic device removed.
12.2 Number of wheels:
The number of wheels is fixed at four.
12.3 Wheel material:
All wheels must be made from an homogeneous metallic material.
12.4 Wheel dimensions:
12.4.1 Complete wheel width must lie between 305 and 355mm when fitted to the front of the car and between 365 and 380mm when fitted to the rear.
12.4.2 Complete wheel diameter must not exceed 660mm when fitted with dry-weather tyres or 670mm when fitted with wet-weather tyres.
12.4.3 Complete wheel width and diameter will be measured horizontally at axle height, with the wheel held in a vertical position and when fitted with new tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.
12.4.4 Wheel bead diameter must lie between 328 and 332mm.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

If it doesn't improve your time, there is no point to it IMHO




True, the budgeted classes, I was talking more like ITS and spec classes, still if it doesn't improve your time. It seems like spending $$$ on the wrong thing, rather than on suspension settings.




If you want a more responsive car, suspension settings and tire selection (brand) is were I put my money on, again my opinion.

RETed

I don't know of ANY automotive motorsports racing class that runs hipari tires short of drifting...period.

The hipari tires do stiffen up the tire, but does this necessarily make the car faster?
That's the big question.

To claim hipari is "better" is just ridiculous.


-Ted

xeroguitar2003

ted needs a hug