Mike's_2nd_Gen

Wow Ted, you really cant read can you?? Yeah I said he was being moronic for saying that my idea was in some way not good enough, then he shows his intake which is similar to what I want to do. Then I said that, by him telling me mine was flawed and his was in some way superior, it made him look like a hypocritical *******. I never once called him a moron or an *******. So maybe you should brush up on your reading comprehension, and not spend so much time trying to be a *****.

Monkey, I looked at those tweakit.net manifolds, and while I like the manifold designs, I am wanting to build a one piece manifold to do away with the 3 piece. Thats my one complaint about the system. And while I could buy that and then build on to it from there, it just seems wrong to pay $200+ for a manifold that I am going to cut up and rework. Especially when I can build the same design for less.

I am worried about something happening to the motor as well Meat, but thats why I was asking for input on it to keep my chances of failure down to a minimum.

Speed Monkey, I am planning on moving to a stand alone unit very shortly after I put in the new motor. And I hope to swap TB's for something bigger at some point. Kind of like Aaron did with the Mustang TB. But as far as weld together over bolt on, if I decide to try different sizes or something I can always cut and re-weld. This way, IF I get it right the first time, I dont have to make another one or something like that.

But I dont care about his welds. I honestly didnt read the whole thing. More looked at the pictures then anything else. But they did look a little shotty. If he dressed them up better, then good. I just dont like bad welds. Its a pet peave of mine.

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

I think that Aaron didn't realize you were making a manifold for an turbo engine. His idea, and I guess yours are very similar to how the stock TII intake manifold operate. He did a pretty damn good job finishing the welds by the way. Check out delSlow he has a custom intake manfiold to go with his gt42, its pretty damn nice. There is also the old TII LIM with a FD UIM, gets you straighter runners with larger butterflys.

But dude seriously just drop the chip on ur shoulder, and you will find a lot more people on here will help you.

http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=kgfuel - Fuel Rails

http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=16475 - Holley Mafiold

http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=18101 -Dellorto Manifold Side Draft Style

http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=16494 -Webber Manifold Downdraft Style

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/few-pics-my-almost-complete-sheet-metal-intake-manifold-559817/ - DelSlows Sheet Metal Intake

Mike's_2nd_Gen

Yeah. If you people could learn to read I would be amazed.

I AM GOING TO BUILD THIS FOR A TURBO MOTOR!!!!! Now I dont want to hear anymore about how Aarons is for a turbo and mine is not.

Also, I said, several times, that I dont want the three piece manifold that MAzda has stock on it. All the manifolds I have found on the net, and yes I have found a couple, are the upper plenum but still utilize the stock runners and I dont want that.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Clock is ticking.......its 1:00pm here....2hrs left

Mike's_2nd_Gen

Well no one has answered the simple question that I asked about whether or not the N/A manifold is the same as the Turbo. If they are, then yeah, I'll get started on one Saturday, and have it finished Saturday. But if you have no suitable answer classicauto, then please go away. You are making an *** of yourself.

McHack

Mike,

Clearly you dont want to hear anything the experts have to say, so why the fek you keep coming back & asking questions? You're just going to keep getting the same answers back, & its not THIER fault you dont like thier answers...

On the other hand, this is pretty entertaining, & watching this result in a ban will be quite humorous!

Mike's_2nd_Gen

First off, no one here is anything near an expert. Sure I listened to what Aaron had to say, right up to the point where he said he made his own. AND IT WAS THE SAME THING!!!! After that, then yeah, it pissed me off to see everyone saying that mine wouldnt work for this reason or that.

But, if it results in a ban. Fine. I'll be back tomorrow.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

TII and N/A manifolds are drastically different. Primary port location is the only *rough* similarity.

And I'm sure everyone reading this thread is thinking I'm an *** for calling you out on your 2 hour manifold design/fitment/fab/contruction estimate. It just further illustrates your lack of understanding.

SHOW ME IN THE THREAD WHERE PEOPLE TELL YOU YOURS WON'T WORK.....

imloggedin

i was enjoying this thread until it got sidetracked. i agree in thinking the stock manifold on the NA is junky. im sure it was made for midrange power. but if its such a good design whyd they redesign it on s5's (at least the upper intake)? because of a little bit higher compression? ehhhhh. also, why did they design the TII intake different? a better low/midrange power would help the turbo spool faster.

i think there was a guy in the dyno section who made 195HP with a streetport and a TII intake. take it for what its worth.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

The TII intake is different primairily because............its for forced induction

It (the N/A intake system) was re-designed for S5 because nothing is ever perfect. Why did they re-design it for the Renesis? because nothign is ever perfect and there is always room for improvement

Its easy to sit back and bash on a +20 year old design now. Back in the day these were revolutionary and top of the line.

As far as making power in N/A form with TII manifolds goes, sure, hell yes it can be done. But is it balanced? No. It will make better peak HP, but the OEM manifold is made while taking full driveability into account.

If you're just looking at peak numbers - do an ITB P port engine. It'll scream but will make no power under 5K rpm.

These are the considerations we're trying to make clear. But Mr. 200mm throttle body (I'm sorry I still really can't get over that ) just gets all bent out of shape when we do.

speed_monkey

I think you are talking about kahren? Im sure most of the power picked up was from leaning out the fuel.

McHack

If you dont believe anyone here is an expert, WHY are you asking them tech questions? Are you aiming for a mediocre result?

Mike's_2nd_Gen

No I am asking for other trials and lessons learned from them. I could honestly care less about the 20 year old numbers. They suck now anyway.

And Classicauto, I could care less if you dont think it can be done in a couple of hours. Making an intake dont take that long. Especially if you know what your doing when it comes to fabrication, which I am pretty sure I know about that quite well. I never said I can do it in 4 hours. But it can be done in a day.

imloggedin

people are saying "well it must be good cause mazda spent time on it", and they also changed it is my point. so why not look for improvement. i say if the guy wants to try it, do it. i think 2 HRs is BS and this is turning into a childish thread but, theres room for improvement in the s4 intakes.

Mike's_2nd_Gen

^ Exactly.

Even with you guys, with the exception of a few, being completely arrogant I have all the info I need to build my own.

Now when the S5 motor gets here, I will disassemble it and thoroughly go over the aspects of the intake manifold and fuel rails. Then I will begin to fabricate my own. BTW, I also plan on fabbing my own exhaust manifolds too. So flame that if you want.

But you guys in all your *******-ish wisdom have given me alot. I dont know if I will be back on here much cause I honestly cant deal with yalls attitudes. But I know what I need to know. So thanks guys.

McHack

Cool!

I'm anxious to see what you come up with, design wise & power figure wise!

imloggedin

mike, im agreeing to an extent.

what i mean by that is, TED knows what hes talking about.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

yea, 2 hours is complete BS for something that you want to come out half-decent. If i spent less than 2 hours checking dimensions and making sure I accounted for and marked all of the pieces to be cut, cause its better to check twice, cut once, than the other way around. Then theres the calculations that would go into it before even purchacing stuff, machining of the injector inserts, spacing the fuel rail properly, machining the flanges, cutting, prepwork, smoothing, actual welding time, grinding stuff smooth for airflow, possibly re-surfacing the flanges (if you screwed something up), making and welding in vac hose nipples, and im sure a bunch of other stuff i've forgotten. Sure you could slap something together in a day if you already had the flanges, used a heinekin keg-can as the plenum and had unlimited access to duct-tape and JB weld, but do you think it would be worth anything? no, itd be complete **** (altho props on the keg-can, just cause its funny)

Also, would you give any consideration to keeping the split-manifold design for response and power when not boosting or when cruising? Cause now it just got more complicated, requiring a split plenum etc.

There seemed to be a bit of confusion about whether you wanted to do this on an NA or TII engine, but either way, most of whats been said is still valid, especially since a turbo engine still works as NA up to atmospheric pressure.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

No you are absolutely right!

You said
imloggedin There is obviously room for improvement. There always is. Even in custom's. Everyone in this thread told him to try it out so I don't see what he's so upset about.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Ibtl.

got_boost

iTrader: (16)

no one here is an expert ???
theres some mechanics from Banzai Racing, Rotary Ressurection, RPM, RX7.com, RX7store.net, Pettit Racing, Mazdatrix, and those are just SOME of the names of some of the biggest rotary specialist in North America , and your telling us... that there is no expert !?!?!?!??!?!?

im sure everybody can see your an expert just by your statement on how mazda's intake manifold sucked.....

so everybody's an ******* and they suck and they dont know **** about rotaries.... then why is mazda still in business doing the same design , slightly changed in 30 years, and you say that sucks !!???

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

eh, im not sure this one has the potential to be locked, not like the one aimed at aaron cake last week

got_boost

iTrader: (16)

1. OHH and you tell everyone that ur suprised Ted can read, and this and that...i guess you CANT read properly, because Aaron didnt do the weldings, he specified that CP Racing did them for him because he was busy re-wiring a megasquirt for a Supra.
and if took the time to look at the pictures you would have seen that is custom IM is actually 3.8 lbs less then the stock one.

2. look at the freakin whole setup he did.... its not JUST 1 pipe divided in 4. theres a lot of other little things, and measurements. testing, and fitting.

3. all you do is talk .... start building if your so smart.
and post pics every hours !!!!

Mike's_2nd_Gen

So there are a few mechanics running around on here. But where are they? So far I havent seen one person say anything in this thread that would be considered expertise other then the first part of Aaron's post. That was about the smartest thing to be said around here, that I have seen.

And by "no more then a couple of hours" I meant a days worth of work. From start to finish it shouldnt take anymore then a standard 8 hour shift. Everyone in here appears to be such a fabricating god, that that time frame should be of no problem to anyone.

And sure Mazda hasn't changed their intake design in 20 years. Why? Becasue the cost of R&D to make a completely new design would cost more then they want to spend. There is the old saying, if its not broke dont fix it. But the thing is, why the stock manifold may in fact work efficiently still, doesnt mean that it cannot be improved upon.

If you actually study the design concept of the stock S4 intake, what is it? And i am talking all numbers aside. From the air filter it runs back in one pipe to the TB. From the TB it dumps into the plenum which is nothing more then a chamber design. The way the TB opens on acceleration has no real bearing on which pipes the air flows into. Then it dumps into four seperate pipes that run down, through a series of bolt together manifolds, into the motor itself. Now, I changed my mind from one long pipe into using the same four pipe design, but making it a one piece unit out of aluminum to clean up the bay and save weight.

Aarons design only saved 4 pounds and thats using steel. Actual aluminum piping is alot less dense then even cast aluminum. So if I make a one piece units without all the bolt together flanges, out of aluminum piping, I can get the same design but cut weight in half, which is an important part of power to weight ratio, obviously (which maybe some of you have forgotten about). If we weigh the intake unit as a whole on the stock S4 Im sure it would weigh close to 25 pounds. So why not make a unit the weighs 12? If its a similar design, only lighter, that gets into more power. Maybe not horsepower, but if you drop 15 pounds here and there on the car, you do end up with a faster car. This has been proven in every drag car ever made. We lighten our cars in every way possible, so why (if someone hasn't made something better) would we not look to lighten inside our engine bay?

They make lighter rotor housings, aluminum radiators, aluminum ducting for intakes and intercoolers, and lighter rotors. Plus we strip the inside of all the non functional parts that add weight. So why limit that ability of dropping weight, by sticking with the same old heavy cast aluminum intake simply because we dont have any better options? Yeah Mazda made one hell of a design, but for a daily driving sports car with a minute amount of power. They didnt design the intake with speed in mind. So why not improve upon something that they didn't foresee 20 years ago?

Mike's_2nd_Gen

1.) Like I already said, I didn't read any of it. I only looked at the pictures. But does it really make it better that he didn't do it himself???

2.) You look at the setup. Its one pipe that splits into four at the back end of the plenum. And its a hell of alot worse design then that of Mazda's original R&D people.

3.) Like I already said, when I get the new motor and get everything to where I can look at it and decide the best plan, then I will build it. I never said I was smarter then anyone, but I do have a hell of a lot more fabrication experience then most of the people on this forum.

Like I said a long time ago, you people assume alot!