h20scorpio

Hey guys, so I have a 87 GSL; and having trouble with the clutch disengaging. I would EXTREMELY appriciate your help!!

Here are the symptoms:
1. Clutch goes through all the gears fine, shifts smooth at INITIAL STARTUP. Runs totally OK, no problem at all. I am a very happy man.

2. BUT, when you turn the car off, and start the car again, the GEAR DOES NOT GO IN at all- I can shift it into reverse, but then it grinds, and will not go in. I am very very sad. If you let the car cool for 20-30 min., it starts up fine, and drives fine like descrived in no.1.

3. Fluid looks clean, but there are little pieces of "black" things floating inside the clutch fluid. (I will try changing the fluid) Could this be the cause of this inconsistant problem?

4. I have yet to check the function of my slave/mas. cylinder. I will do that tommorow, and let you guys know. Besides checking the movement of the slave cylin. manually, is there any other way to check the function of the hydrolics?

Many people seemed to have problems that are simular to this, (reason being slave/master cylin., bearings, bent forks, and etc.) but my problem is INCONSISTANT. When you start it, let it drive for a while, stop it, let it sit, and start it again, the problem appears.
???What do you guys figure the reason for this problem?
thanks a lot for your help!!!

Shin K

truespin88

Could be the hose. Check for leaks/excessive heating of the hose.

domesttuner

I just had a similar problem with my 88, and it turned out to be a bad master and slave cylinder. Had them replaced, no problem since. I couldn't shift into first or revers, it was so bad.

mr_vaughn

iTrader: (1)

do you have an after market clutch?
do you have a short shifter?

h20scorpio

Hey, thanks for the replies so far guys!! I love the support on this forum!

I might replace the master/slave cyln. and the hoses soon- but if that were to be the problem, wouldn't the clutch not disengage at all? Mine works fine after you let the car sit for while with the engine off.
I appriciate your help!
Shin

h20scorpio

Not sure about the aftermarket clutch/shifter. The previous owner said that he replaced the clutch, so it might be a modified clutch. (feels normal though)
Shifter, looking at the ****, probably is stock.
thanks,
Shin

h20scorpio

any other suggestions...?

RETed

Does the problem get worse or better the more you drive it?
I would guess it's the pilot bearing disappearing.
Why don't you take the trans apart and examine the clutch itself for verification?


-Ted

truespin88

Not everyone can do that easily, Ted.

nerid25

most people can't do that easily, ted

Gibenstein

iTrader: (2)

Who said this was ez give ted a break... If you want to fix the problem you have to take the time..

h20scorpio

the more you drive it, the smoother the shifting feel. I am really hoping it is the hydrolics....

h20scorpio

---during the cource of my research, I have seen you write some great stuff, Ted. I really appriciate your help. You rock, and thanks for helpin me out everyone!
Shin

domesttuner

I don't have anything aftermarket on my car dealing with the drivetrain, but there may be enough pressure in the system that it still disengages the clutch, it will just grind really bad. Whatever it is, get it fixed soon before you have to replace the whole tranny.

h20scorpio

yea, good idea.
Well, it just runs realllllly well when it decides to disengage. It will run forever when it is like that. But when it doesnt, it does not disengage at all.
Just reallly inconvinient when you wanna go pick up food really quick or something- because it will run there, just won't go in gear when I come out of the fast food.

WAYNE88N/A

Your fluid is getting hot in the slave cylinder as you drive & is "boiling" past the internal seals in said cylinder...When you rebuild/ replace the slave go to at least a DOT 4 fluid, I've had a good run with DOT 5...You gotta keep the fluid clean or it will DESTROY your seals inside the cylinders...Been there, done that!

h20scorpio

But if that is the case, wouldnt the clutch seize to go in WHILE I am running? I have had no problem when the car is moving- it gets smoother the more I run.
I checked the slave boots today, and it seemed like it was fine- no liquid in the boots or anything like that.
I knowticed that it is bit hard to shift to 1st. Little bit to the 2nd, but rest of the gears shift very smooth.
I guess I'll try changin the fluid to REDLINE MT90 or something.
Thanks for the advise,
Shin

WAYNE88N/A

the only other time my clutch acted anything near to what you are describing is when the pressure plate went bad after only 60k or so, due (I think) to a worn front plate on the tranny (little "ball" that the fork arm pivots on). I was WISHING it was just my clutch hydraulics then, no such luck. I had lots of problems with the DOT 3 fluid way back when, though, 'cause of the heat that slave cylinder is sitting in, other than the above, i dunno...Good luck, man...

RETed

Whatever the case, h2oscorpio will most likely need to inspect the clutch, period.  It really doesn't matter if he/she can do it easily or not - it's just a matter of peace of mind.  If he/she can't do it themselves, then take it to a shop.  To try and fix this without pulling the clutch is kinda sketchy.

I doubt it's boiling fluid.  Unless you go pumping the breaks at 10 times a second for over half an hour, the fluid isn't going to boil.  The exhaust doesn't run close to the brake hydraulics, unless you're dumb enough to reroute to that area?  If your engine is getting hot enough to boil the clutch hydraulics, you've got more serious problems than the clutch itself!


-Ted

h20scorpio

thanks for all the advise.
I will try to change the trans. fluid/ clutch fluid, and if that does not fix it I will change the hydrolics, and if that does not fix it, I will drop the trans.
thanks a lot for the help-
Shin

WAYNE88N/A

RETed: I know "boiling" is not the right word, only word I could think of at the time...My first gen always seemed to have clutch prob's, and most of the time the culprit was heat/ oil soaked slave seals (spongy?). I assumed the heat was "contaminating" the fluid, because it always seemed to be dirtier/ more contaminated than the fluid upstream.My 2nd gen doesn't seem to have the problem as bad...anyway, I guess "boiling" was a bad choice of words, sorry! I'm sure you hate clutch changes as much as me, so I unfailingly zero in on that slave cyl. when I have clutch probs...

h20scorpio

Another hint-
Once the gear goes in, even if you dont shift at all, (like filling up gas with your engine on,) if you LEAVE THE ENGINE ON, it will keep shifting smoothly.

WAYNE88N/A

do you have the stock clutch setup? have you already checked the hydraulics side of it?

h20scorpio

no, it has been good couple of days. Ofcource, when it is good, slave is moving great. I have yet to check when the gear doesnt go in, slave moves or not...
I am hoping that it wont....
thanks a lot,
Shin

h20scorpio

:::UPDATE
so one day, it will just not go in gear at all no matter how much you cool it.
So, I replaced the clutch master and slave. Bled it like crazy from the slave cyl.
still no go.
so, I try to start it in gear, and wow, it shifts smoothly now.
Then, drove about 200miles or so.
on the freeway, clutch seized up, and wont shift anymore.
pulled over, turned the engine off, and started in gear again.
shifts, but is kind of "clogging", like it is not fully disengaging.
conclusion:: worn bearings. am going to drop the tranny for inspection.