RETed

Dude, you're talking about FC owners who complain about gas prices going up 10&#162 a gallon!!!



-Ted

Node

iTrader: (1)

You're also talking to Australians, the continent of rotorheads who find a cheaper way of getting power with anything they do, just to afford to spend more on gas and get lower MPG

RICE RACING

That is a perfect piece of logic !

I would like to refine it a bit. Potential BP or PP people ask your self these questions.

A: Do you worry about how much fuel costs and how much you use through the week?

If you answer yes, then you do not want a bridge or peripheral for the street simple as that.

If this is answer NO then got on to B

B: Do you have concerns or do you think that you will be fined (by police or RTA) for "very" above legal exhaust noise?

If you answer yes, then you do not want a bridge or peripheral again.

It realy is as simple as that, ask yourself these two questions, and remember to give an HONEST answer that is applicable to you or the area you live, as ALL our circumsatances are different.

blu_gxl

man good info, i didn't want this thread to end

james

bcty

my only consern is that i have a n/a... i dont want to bridge to really hurt my car because i only see it being run on turbos... i am getting the 10lb flywheel and 4.30 gears so that might help with the lower end a bit... i just need to know if anybody has run a BP on a n/a? or would if even matter?

RETed

Okay, take notes - I'm only got to go over this once!

The lines on this graph pretain to my street port '87 Turbo II 13BT versus the KSP Engineering twin-turbo bridge port monster.

My dyno graph can be seen here:&nbsp http://www.fc3s-pro.com/pics/dyno1.jpg

The KSP FC is this the pink FC, which can be seen here:&nbsp http://www.fc3s-pro.com/pics/FC3S/KSP/kspfc1.jpg

The KSP FC has it's power units in "PS", but this is very close to "HP".&nbsp The graph was plotted in MS Excel and overlayed over each other...


If you can believe it, my car makes MORE power than this KSP beast under ~3,800RPM or so.&nbsp My car only made 253hp at the wheels; the KSP beast made over 580ps at the wheels - that's over TWICE as much power, yet my car made more power under 3,800RPM!&nbsp If the race was restricted to 3,800RPM, I would win. Of course, this is not realistic, and above 4,000RPM that thing would walk all over me like I was standing still.&nbsp I believe RICE RACING is produce power in this range - I'll race you RICE RACING up to 4,000RPM!

THIS is what I mean about losing the low end power.&nbsp The BP is just not efficient down low as an SP - imagine if the turbos were the same type!&nbsp This is a measly T5/T6 compressor upgrade up to 15psi versus a PAIR of HKS GT-2835 BB turbos pushing up to 20psi of boost!&nbsp The SP would produce even MORE power over the BP if the turbos were the same!

This is POSITIVE PROOF the BP can't match the SP under 4kRPM or so.&nbsp I'm surprised the power difference was this bad to tell you the truth...



-Ted

RETed

10 views and no one says anything?


-Ted

MikeL

I accept that my engine makes less power below 4k rpm than it did with the street port. I cruise around at 2-2.5k rpm. I won't race from that rpm.

HWO

to use one of Peter's favourites - this is a PRIME example of WHY cars have Gearboxes and Diff's

RETed

Oh, come on...you're never going to admit it, and you're still making excuses.

We're not driving race cars here.&nbsp I dunno about you, but I'm getting almost too old for that ****.&nbsp I can "tool around" in 5th gear at 2,000RPM around town and not have to downshift for more power; just giving it a little gas gives me enough power for 99% of my needs.&nbsp Lower RPM means lower EGT, lower temps, lower revs, lower wear&tear, lower stress on the engine - we're talking street car here.&nbsp I got NOTHING against a race car running a BP motor.&nbsp I think street cars outnumber the races cars very easily on here.&nbsp You can live with the disadvantages of a BP motor for a daily driver like MikeL, sure go for it!&nbsp I'd bet 90% of the people have no clue what it's like driving or owning a BP rotary - you're giving them a false sense of facts by telling them it's okay; my graph clearly shows the SP motor puts out significant power at low RPM's.

Hell, if you're going to scream at me why I'm driving under 4,000RPM, you're wasting your time.&nbsp The exhaust gets stupid loud at that point (at least mine does).&nbsp The heat difference is really obvious, as I pointed out earlier.&nbsp Your mileage goes to crap; I can regularly get 20mpg driving like a grandma around town - any BP owners can claim that on 50/50 city/highway mixed driving?

Need I even remind that when that bridge does break (and it will), you're looking at a really big price tag to rebuild and replace at least a $400US+ rotor housing!

Your arguments are looking pretty weak.&nbsp The graph practically shut the door on any doubts on what makes better low end power.&nbsp Imagine if the turbo set-ups were the same...



-Ted

MikeL

Ted,
Please, try not to be offended by anything that I write below. It's not my intention to offend, only to tell you how this old ****** feels about his full BP TII in daily driving. I can't yet relate much about ***-hauling with it. That will come later.

Even with me at 2-2.5k rpm driving around town, with the a/c running, either in 4th or 5th gear, this BP seems to have more power than my SP when I go to accelerate without downshifting.

I think the reason for that is that while cruising, the vacuum reading is very low, very near boost at about 7-8 on the gauge. The slightest pedal press gets me into boost.

I think that if the turbo wasn't there, I would absolutely hate the BP but, since I can boost at 2-2.5k rpm in ANY gear, I feel more power down low with the BP.

I'll post again after I begin to tune for boost.

Mike

RETed

I'm not offended at all - in fact, I'm looking forward to the dyno sheet from you MikeL!

The beef was more pointed to HWO since we both go way back on this SP versus BP argument...

Sorry to have dragged you into all of this.


-Ted

MikeL

I might be able to do a dyno in a month or two. I just passed 1000 miles with the engine.

My financial situation has been very bad for almost a year. I can't afford to break anything, especially an engine. I just can't afford to be a race car driver right now.

When I do dyno, the T-66 will see only maybe 15 psi, but, since the debate here is low rpm, I could still get us some good information and, the dyno operator will overlay previous runs with the SP onto the BP dyno sheet. I don't think we can get much better than that for a comparison.

HWO

speak for yourself,
but my car has no carpet, no sound deadening, no extra's which aren't needed to either a) make it go faster or b) keep it road legal

c) my car might see a trip to work once a week on a saturday, approx 3km down the road, just to give it an airing, otherwise it will be driven to events - approx every 3rd or 4th weekend average over the year and it'll be rung out hard. launch and ride the clutch a bit in 1st, i might see under 4000rpm for a second or two, but after that it wont see under 4000rpm until i cross the finish line weather it be an autocross, a circut sprint, a road sprint or whatever. It has a full rollcage, two race seats, 2 harness belts, is generally loud to ride in and the ride comfort certainly isn't high. so i'd say my car IS a race car, cause it certainly aint a daily driver.

DrunkenMaster

i have a BridgePorted Engine, ive had since last year of march of 2001, ive driven the car 15,000 miles, the engine was rebuilt and given too me, No problems , i baby it like my own son, i got 205HP stock and 279Torque at low RPM, about 4500, i luv this engine

oh yeah its 89 T2

RETed

Your facts are suspect...that V8 is running nicely in your FC...
The thread is here:&nbsp https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=78869



-Ted

RETed

Ah, it's fun to be brash/arrogant, young, and stupid...
I smiled when you wrote all of that, cause I've been through it myself.&nbsp Just wait till you hit the age when your eyesight, reflexes, and patience all take a ****.&nbsp Trust me, age is going to catch up to you, just as guarantee as "death and taxes".

Enjoy it now - it is all over in a blink of an eye...



-Ted

jspecracer7

LOL...you beat me to the post Ted...

bcty

what do u think the main cause for the bridge breaking is? boost? abuse? and is there any way to keep the bridge a little thicker? and is a 1/2 bridge port the same as a partial bridge?

mdouble

Gidday,
My old b/p was angle cut at about 45deg to the face of the side plate. This give heaps of meat under the bridge, so the chance of cracking is minimal. That was the best engine i've ever had in my Rx2, i'm getting rid of the turbo engine now and going back to the b/p i think. It was only 250hp, but the throttle response was awesome and much much less complex that my current motor.

bcty

any pics of what that would look like?

mdouble

Okay, i'll see if i can dig some old housings out and take some pics.

MikeL

A page from tonights datalog.

I was cruising at 1760 rpm in 3rd gear. I pressed the go-fast pedal down. In less than a second and by 1940 rpm, I had boost.

Before I got the pedal down all of the way, I was into boost.

Full BP TII.

Maxthe7man

You may have had boost before that, just because it was still in a "vacuum" does not mean it was not on boost, if you think in terms of absolute pressures, you will see what I mean..
I do have a question though Mike, how do you get screen captures like that??? Max

mdouble

here's the pics of my old bridgey. It's gone a bit rusty, but you get the idea. For those who are interested