Blown Coolant Seal
Blown Coolant Seal
02-12-13, 11:51 AM
#5
Senior Member
stupid question: how does a coolant seal "blow"? where does it go? seems to me it would have a hard time squeezing through the plates!
what actually happens to the seal that allows coolant to enter the intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust space?
what actually happens to the seal that allows coolant to enter the intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust space?
Last edited by Clubuser; 02-12-13 at 11:55 AM.
02-12-13, 11:59 AM
#6
Coolant seals degraded over time and can fail due to over heating, engine stress(torque), etc. The combustion of the engine causes pressure which vents into the area of least resistance ie the blown seal. Given enough pressure or time fluids can moved freely between any sealing surface in an engine, oil coolant ect.
02-12-13, 12:00 PM
#7
coolant seals are simple high temp silicone rubber. as the rubber ages it becomes brittle and less flexible. sometimes itching of heat cycles wears out the seals, sometimes running an engine hard before it is to temp allows combustion gasses direct contact to the seal and burns them. in more drastic cases the iron walls fail and the coolant seal squeezes out of the channel and into the coolant passage, breaking the internal seal of the engine.
iron failures are often associated with overheating the engine first, but no one has ever really proven it causes the irons to fail prematurely or not. i advocate that it does hurt the integrity of the metal since the engine is used to an operating temperature range of 100F-230F. heat cycling and corrosive acidic coolant also fatigues the metal to the point that one overheat cycle can cause a thin wall to break behind the expanding force of the coolant seal.
iron failures are often associated with overheating the engine first, but no one has ever really proven it causes the irons to fail prematurely or not. i advocate that it does hurt the integrity of the metal since the engine is used to an operating temperature range of 100F-230F. heat cycling and corrosive acidic coolant also fatigues the metal to the point that one overheat cycle can cause a thin wall to break behind the expanding force of the coolant seal.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-12-13 at 12:04 PM.
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02-12-13, 12:55 PM
#8
Senior Member
thx. something to that plus don't overheat should have been in the 1st page of the owner's manual. i'll make sure never to push my re-build until fully @ op-temp.
02-13-13, 07:53 AM
#12
basically bad coolant, and the fact that there is iron and aluminum parts contacting the water causes problems with the metal.
Heat cycling means getting it up to temp, and letting it cool down. repeat this by simply driving around. thats heat cycling.
Heat cycling means getting it up to temp, and letting it cool down. repeat this by simply driving around. thats heat cycling.
02-13-13, 11:35 AM
#13
I'm assuming its best to use water that's had the minerals taken out, I forget the name.
I believe recommended is at least 15% coolant and the rest can be water.
The reason I'm so interested in this is because my coolant seals went on my last car (after 6 years/25k miles on rebuild), I'm thinking it could be associated with me using alot of tap water instead of de-mineralized water (again I forget the term).
The heat cycling. That's basically going from cold to hot and back from hot to cold very often and repeating the process at a more often rate than normal?
Every engine has to go through that when you shut it off after you've driven somewhere that you plan on leaving, why is it a bad thing?
Rotary >Pistons
02-13-13, 02:22 PM
#14
water when it stagnates takes on different characteristics. and the internals of the engines also shed off material during normal operation, fouling the coolant with ferrous metals which can carry electrical charges and cause electrolysis just like hard water from your tap.
every engine i tear down no matter the mileage always has sludge built up in the coolant passages, it varies from jello texture to sand to almost rock like.
heat cycling is just as it sounds. every time you start a cold engine and run it up to operating temperature and then let it cool back off that is 1 complete heat cycle. metal expands and contracts with heat, metals can really only be subjected to so much heat or so many cycles before the material becomes fatigued. cast iron is probably the best material for heat cycling but it is also a rather brittle metal, and once fatigued it doesn't take much to crack/break.
every engine i tear down no matter the mileage always has sludge built up in the coolant passages, it varies from jello texture to sand to almost rock like.
heat cycling is just as it sounds. every time you start a cold engine and run it up to operating temperature and then let it cool back off that is 1 complete heat cycle. metal expands and contracts with heat, metals can really only be subjected to so much heat or so many cycles before the material becomes fatigued. cast iron is probably the best material for heat cycling but it is also a rather brittle metal, and once fatigued it doesn't take much to crack/break.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-13-13 at 02:27 PM.
02-13-13, 02:36 PM
#15
Lots of big words there had to look them up to help understand.
What type of coolant and mixture do you use to ensure maximum longevity to the system?
Are you for against using water wetter?
I think the term I was forgetting for non-mineral(tap) water is distilled water , you can correct me if I'm incorrect.
Edit - Where do you purchase your distilled water ? Of course you could make your own but its easier to just buy it.
I read storage in plastic containers is bad for distilled water and most places with decent pricing sell it in plastic gallon jugs.
Rotary >Pistons
What type of coolant and mixture do you use to ensure maximum longevity to the system?
Are you for against using water wetter?
I think the term I was forgetting for non-mineral(tap) water is distilled water , you can correct me if I'm incorrect.
Edit - Where do you purchase your distilled water ? Of course you could make your own but its easier to just buy it.
I read storage in plastic containers is bad for distilled water and most places with decent pricing sell it in plastic gallon jugs.
Rotary >Pistons
02-13-13, 02:52 PM
#16
water wetter is mainly for drag/track cars and i wouldn't let it sit in the system for a whole season or more, mainly because it recommends using more water to promote it actually doing its job. also if you thin out the coolant too much the lack of lubrication usually kills your water pump in no time.
normally i run about 65/35 water to coolant ratio out here, since it is more hot than it gets cold. more water gives the system slightly more efficiency to shed heat. so long as you use distilled water and clean coolant you should be good for about 2 years before the coolant will begin to foul and break down. if you get alot of very cold winter days then stick with the 50/50 ratio.
tap water isn't distilled, distilled is a refining process to capture the pure water. basically the water is boiled and the steam is collected and turned back into liquid as the refined water. reverse osmosis is similar but not quite as refined as distilling. reverse osmosis water is usually considered good enough.
normally i run about 65/35 water to coolant ratio out here, since it is more hot than it gets cold. more water gives the system slightly more efficiency to shed heat. so long as you use distilled water and clean coolant you should be good for about 2 years before the coolant will begin to foul and break down. if you get alot of very cold winter days then stick with the 50/50 ratio.
tap water isn't distilled, distilled is a refining process to capture the pure water. basically the water is boiled and the steam is collected and turned back into liquid as the refined water. reverse osmosis is similar but not quite as refined as distilling. reverse osmosis water is usually considered good enough.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-13-13 at 02:56 PM.
02-13-13, 02:59 PM
#17
So in theory is it safe to say that using tap water promoted a cracked iron/ruptured coolant seal in my old na?
Car had 25k on rebuilt engine over the course of 6 years, it completely went on me during a cold winter in rhode island. It was built by Kevin @ rotaryresurrection.
I never used distilled water when I filled it but I did use at least 15% coolant.
The engine did initially overheat after being installed a few times initially due to bad clutch fan that was later fixed, never very overheated--it went to about half on stock temp gauge. (200+ f), car would gurgle after being shutoff.
Where do you get the water you use?
Rotary >Pistons
Car had 25k on rebuilt engine over the course of 6 years, it completely went on me during a cold winter in rhode island. It was built by Kevin @ rotaryresurrection.
I never used distilled water when I filled it but I did use at least 15% coolant.
The engine did initially overheat after being installed a few times initially due to bad clutch fan that was later fixed, never very overheated--it went to about half on stock temp gauge. (200+ f), car would gurgle after being shutoff.
Where do you get the water you use?
Rotary >Pistons
02-13-13, 03:09 PM
#18
yes, it could have deteriorated the metals to the point of breaking an iron, if that was what failed. it won't affect the coolant seals though, so if the seal was the only thing that went it likely had some tired rotor housings, lost tension on a tension bolt or electrolysis ate up a rotor housing(similar to a broken iron scenario).
you can buy distilled water at supermarkets, drug stores and some convenience stores. you would think that auto parts stores would also carry it.... i have never been able to figure that one out. but then again they want you to break ****, so they can sell you new parts(not likely with these cars though).
you can buy distilled water at supermarkets, drug stores and some convenience stores. you would think that auto parts stores would also carry it.... i have never been able to figure that one out. but then again they want you to break ****, so they can sell you new parts(not likely with these cars though).
02-13-13, 03:43 PM
#19
The housings had 146k and I had to get one iron replaced due to it having a hole in the water passage, so I guess its safe to say my improper coolant usage likely caused the problem to reoccur.
Car at first just went low on coolant and I'd top it off often but ran fine/started fine.
When it completely went it wouldnt even hold coolant overnight after being filled, no sign of external leaks, bone dry after being filled the next morning after only 12 hours.
Also upon starting it would sputter and run horribly then clear up after 30 seconds or so, and it'd look like a smoke bomb went off behind the car with all the white smoke coming out the exhaust.
Rotary >Pistons
Car at first just went low on coolant and I'd top it off often but ran fine/started fine.
When it completely went it wouldnt even hold coolant overnight after being filled, no sign of external leaks, bone dry after being filled the next morning after only 12 hours.
Also upon starting it would sputter and run horribly then clear up after 30 seconds or so, and it'd look like a smoke bomb went off behind the car with all the white smoke coming out the exhaust.
Rotary >Pistons
02-13-13, 05:26 PM
#20
Senior Member
