basicly i have a 86 sport with high miles with a bad alex seal in the rear rotor, wont really idle below 1500 and runs really rough, sounds like the rear rotar is missing every time.

i dont have enuf money to rebuild this engine or get a diff 1, but i have LOTS of time on my hands,

im pulling the motor anyway now, i was wondering if i could pull the rear housing off, and replace the 1 bad apex seal( 60 dollars), IF the other ones werent toasted too, and it didnt damage anything else either. then put the rear housing back on.

my question is would the engine run if i did this, given nothing else was damaged,it doesnt have to run real good, or go real fast, it just have to be driveable, it doesnt even have to last more then a month or 2.

who thinks this might work, and if u dont think it will work explain why please.

 

If you have LOTS of time on yoru hands man get a job and start saving for a rebuild. Doing a hallfassed job on something that you don't know much about can cause a lot of hell and by rebuilding now you will spend more money now, but not get it in the *** when your other seals and springs give out on your engine.
This could happen and could not, myself if you wanted to replace just 1 apex seal you'd also need some new gaskets to seal up your housings because reusing old gaskets is only asking for trouble.
Matt

 

I'm pretty sure that opening the engine up period means you have to replace some seals and stuff. Some guru will let you know for sure.

 

The rubber gaskets tend to crack and break when you take the engine apart. So, chances are, you're not going to be able to take it apart and reuse them. Also, if you did lose an apex seal, you most likely will have to replace the rotor and housing. Not always, but I doubt they are both still reuseable.

 

do it right the first time, don't half-*** it, you'll regret it later

 

 

that wasn't even a one-word reply dude, it was a quote with a smiley face, lol

but everyone is pretty much right. the route you want to go is to take care of everything and get a rebuilt engine.
having said that, you could waste your time trying to replace that one seal. you may want to assume that your car won't run after you do this, just so you aren't surprised when that happens...mind if you if your replace any seals that need to be replaced there is the chance it should at least run as good as it did before.

 

You guys are missing a major point here- if you've lost a seal, it probably cracked or "rolled out" and also probably performed a little dance inside the rotor housing before it exited stage left (which is the exhaust port). So not only are you concerned with just a $60 apex seal, but also a $500 rotor housing...And at this point, you might as well perform a complete rebuild...

So, best case scenario- the seal is just stuck "down", and can be "revived" by pulling the rear housing, removing the seal & springs, cleaning up the rotor groove (and anything else you could possibly clean up at this point), and reinstalling the seal. Now IF none of the other housing mating surfaces moved (or "cracked open"), you may be able to retorque everything back down and have no leaks, provided you change at least the rear housing combustion & water jacket seals. You have many other items to worry about, too, including the front needle bearings moving on you (so don't break the front bolt, and keep the engine sitting "face down" on that front bolt the entire time)...

If the above scenario is what's happening, try the ATF trick, to "unstick" it...

Myself, I would never try this, but on paper, it is feasible...

 

oh thought you where talking about rush

 

well yeah, especially if you assume you gave nothing to lose other than wasting time and having to get a rebuild it the end

 

ok did compression test 90 90 90 front and 95 30 30 rear

so 1 seal is either stuck or messed up, tried water trick and not much of a diff after that, i did notice that it will start when its hot now where as it wouldnt quite get goin enuf to start before.

gonna pull the xhast manifold off and try and see the seals, look and see if 1 is gone, stuck, or maybe had a spring failure.

any other ways to cure a stuck seal?? if thats the case

 

2 of your seals are damaged. There are 3 sides to each rotor. The readings on the first rotor are 3 consistent readings while the second rotor has 2 readings that are greatly lower than the 3rd.

 

r u sure? if 2 seals are damaged, i wont get any crompession,cause 1 seal takes out 2 of the 3 compression chambers

 

Haha actually you are right. I'm trying to forum and do a paper at the same time. Regardless at least one of your seals is damaged and there isnt really a cheap fix for this.

 

Check out the antifreeze "trick" and have a think about what you can do real cheap. Also if you've got the origional cold start system still on the car. Fill it up with the recommended 90%AF-10%water mix. Rewire the little pump on it with a power source you can control by hand, start the engine up and **** a couple of bottles thru the engine. By the way guys this is also an easier way to do the water "trick" using a 50/50 AF-water mix.
Have fun.
Gerrard

PS: Do this outdoors at night so you don't get the nieghbors all stirred up about the local "smog" you'll be putting out the tailpipe.

 

I think you had a brilliant idea- pull the exhaust manifold first, and see what you can see- that should tell you where to go from there...

 

no trick is going to get you through this,.. bite the bullet but the basic rebuild kit for 500 bux, pull the motor down and check the damage. If it needs a new housing buy a good used one for 100-200 bux or get a semi low milage motor from pick and pull for ~100 bux.

 

drago, its obvious I think by now that those options are not open to this guy. He probably doesn't have the tools, money, or maybe even experience to pull out the motor and do a rebuild. He's looking for a temp solution, and all I can recommend is the atf..

Sadly atf isn't the best way to get rid of gummed up carboned apex seals, but its cheap and its worth a go, what else does he have to lose? either way the engine is gonna die out sooner or later.

 

where can u find a rebuild kit for 500?? the ones with gaskets and apex seals r ussually 800? , yeah i wont have enuf to rebuild for a couple months prolly.... and ive never done it before! lol sounds like somethin worth learning to do tho!

 

Pull the exhaust manifold. Have a look. if one of the apex seals is obviously stuck/cracked/damaged/missing/whatever, then you know.

if it's broken, don't fix it. get another engine. Used good non turbo engines are a dime a dozen. Don't spend more than $500.

if a seal is stuck, try amsoil power foam, brake cleaner, or some other product that munches carbon, and then fire it up after you've got it unstuck, everything should be fine.

30PSI is almost impossibly high compression for a blown seal, I'd suspect either a stuck or cracked seal.

 

my point is 30 compression is a cracked/ broken seal,.. the atf wont do squat.

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/overhaul_kits.htm

all it doesnt have are side seals, corner seals and oil control rings,.. which are probably all in spec with the possible exception of the oil control rings, they wear a tad faster than the other parts, but still it will run and they have to be majorly worn before they start smoking.

rebuilding isnt that hard if you buy the rebuild vid, and go slow, the whole motor just kinda stacks together.

 

Just as an FYI.. when my rear rotor lost compression, the apex seals actually came apart. Aside from the fact that they dug holes in both the rotor and housing, they became warped and the corner seals came out in pieces. I had ordered an entire rebuild kit including all these seals, and found that the corner seals wouldn't go back IN the rotor due to the warping. Neither would the apex seals.

I had to pay a restocking fee of over $100 when I sent the rebuild kit back. Overall the whole rebuilding experience that was a big waste of money and left my car in more pieces and my wallet with less money. If I had it to do again, I would get a rebuilt motor that I didn't have to take apart.

 

well i pulled the xhaust manifold, and all the apex seals are there dont look damaged , i pushed on them and they push back so the springs are still working,

wondeirng if 1 was stuck ran a compression test on it again and seemed to get like 90 in the good chamger then i was getting around 40-45 in the other 2 chambers

wonder if i broke a side seal or corner seal or somethin.... wut u guys think?

 

All of the apex seals had rounded ends? In other words, there wasn't one that seemed to have a sharper edge to it than the others, no?

If you just had a side seal bad, you would only have one low compression chamber. Two side seals, that would be something bordering on amazing...

Corner seal, though, maybe....But you don't hear about them just crapping out too much....

Did you spray the apex seals down with some penetrant or something, just in case?

With the manifold off now, you can do an "auditory" compression test so that you can look more closely at the faces that are "bad" when you hear it...

 

they all seemed the same to me but ive never seen 1 in an engine before till today lol..... ill try spraying them tommarow,and look more closely at them,

then re test again later, carbon looks kinda sooty black right? looks like theres kinda alot of "carbon"all around by the seals, maybe thats still effecting it.