Awd/ 4wd Fc
04-12-07, 02:47 PM
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Awd/ 4wd Fc
I know that back in the day there was a AWD/4WD FC that won the world rally championship. My question is more about the technical aspect of it. What gear box were they running, how did they do it basically. Anyone have any insight on it? I'm going to do some hunting about it, but if anyone knows anything it would be helpful. (technical knowledge, etc...)
It was Dag Bakken and Sal Dagens RX-7
It was Dag Bakken and Sal Dagens RX-7
04-12-07, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightOwl
Rod Millen had a AWD FB back in the day.
The RX-7 even made an appearance in the World Rally Championship. The car finished 11th on its debut at the RAC Rally in Wales in 1981. Group B received much of the focus for the first part of the 1980s, but Mazda did manage to place third at the 1985 Acropolis Rally, and the Familia 4WD claimed the victory at Swedish Rally in both 1987 and 1989.
Looking at the MPV tranny this is probably what he ran.. But I can't find any for sure sources that could verify that.
Now would everything mate up right? I'm going to guess no, it seems a little longer than normal N/A, but then that just might be a different bell housing. Not quite sure. but here's a link to an ebay one:
here
Last edited by lax-rotor; 04-12-07 at 03:17 PM.
04-12-07, 04:02 PM
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I was searching in the wrong section... I found some information on the suspension forum on here, here's what they have:
That's Rob Millen's. Nothing about his set up though. Can reference this forum for more information.
although they don't have much infomation concerning the exact transmissino to use. They say a 626. Any one have any further insight?
That's Rob Millen's. Nothing about his set up though. Can reference this forum for more information.
although they don't have much infomation concerning the exact transmissino to use. They say a 626. Any one have any further insight?
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04-12-07, 06:29 PM
#9
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Millen's FB was before 13b's were in FBs. I think he had a few though, so one of them probably had a 13b in it. It was like 82 up until 86 or so that he ran it. I'm not entirely sure.
04-12-07, 06:46 PM
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lol, So basicaly any mazda made AWD tranny could work? I'm curious about how much modification he had done to it. IE, did he modify the back bone to support the transfer case, or did it fit lock stock and barrel? How did he get the front end to work? did he just use the respective front end pieces and mated them together?
Questions, questions, questions.
Questions, questions, questions.
04-12-07, 08:00 PM
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and for those who can't read the micro print I put on my super eyes!
Thanks ramses666 for the post!
The Legend Grows
The racing world witnessed another rotary debut in 1982, again at Daytona. A single RX7 with a new and larger 13B rotary was enterred in the GTO class, in a field crowded with the higher-powered BMW M3's, Porsches, and Corvettes. When the checkered flag waved,the winner was RX-7, with only one GTO contender within seven miles. And in the 1980 Daytona GTO event, yet another 13B-equipped RX-7 in the maiden race was again the winner. And in the first full season of GTO racing, in 1984, RX-7 emerged Champion!
Such tremendus accomplishments did not pass unnoticed. The inherrent advantages of a rotary--small, light, high power to displacement, few moving parts and proved reliability--would become important assets in other areas of racing's world.
It is these reasons that the Mazda rotary engine is the predominant powerplant in IMSA Carrel light GTP class--and Jim Downings Mazda-Arfo was champion in the inaugural 1985 season, and again in 1966.
And so it was that the RX-7 became a formidable force in Sports Car Club of America racing. RX-7 optimal SOCA GT2 national championships in 1982, 1983 and 1985--a spectacular feat, comendering(?) the competition.
So it was, too, that the RX-7 was twice champion on the SCCA 1980 Rally circuit of diabolically torturous open-road endurance races--in 1981 in two-wheel-drive configuration and in 1985 as a four-wheel-drive RX-7. Now, the new-generation four-wheel-drive RX-7, seen here, will see action in special events such as the farred(?) Pike's Peak Hill Climb.
And so it is, finally, that racing is the quintecential proving fround for Mazda technological advances. And with every Mazda win, the ultimate winner is you.
The racing world witnessed another rotary debut in 1982, again at Daytona. A single RX7 with a new and larger 13B rotary was enterred in the GTO class, in a field crowded with the higher-powered BMW M3's, Porsches, and Corvettes. When the checkered flag waved,the winner was RX-7, with only one GTO contender within seven miles. And in the 1980 Daytona GTO event, yet another 13B-equipped RX-7 in the maiden race was again the winner. And in the first full season of GTO racing, in 1984, RX-7 emerged Champion!
Such tremendus accomplishments did not pass unnoticed. The inherrent advantages of a rotary--small, light, high power to displacement, few moving parts and proved reliability--would become important assets in other areas of racing's world.
It is these reasons that the Mazda rotary engine is the predominant powerplant in IMSA Carrel light GTP class--and Jim Downings Mazda-Arfo was champion in the inaugural 1985 season, and again in 1966.
And so it was that the RX-7 became a formidable force in Sports Car Club of America racing. RX-7 optimal SOCA GT2 national championships in 1982, 1983 and 1985--a spectacular feat, comendering(?) the competition.
So it was, too, that the RX-7 was twice champion on the SCCA 1980 Rally circuit of diabolically torturous open-road endurance races--in 1981 in two-wheel-drive configuration and in 1985 as a four-wheel-drive RX-7. Now, the new-generation four-wheel-drive RX-7, seen here, will see action in special events such as the farred(?) Pike's Peak Hill Climb.
And so it is, finally, that racing is the quintecential proving fround for Mazda technological advances. And with every Mazda win, the ultimate winner is you.
04-12-07, 10:16 PM
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nothing set in motion yet. I am planning on a major upgrade, but unless I get some input on exactly how to accomplish a mod such as this it will be rather difficult. I figure something like this will cost some dinero, so I'm trying to plan ahead as much as I can. First things first though i'm going to be doing a N/A->Turbo conversion. This is for "future" knowledge.
What i've thought of so far would be that if you have an AWD/4WD tranny with the right length on the shifter bit to align right and the transfer case is able to fit in the back bone without serious modification then it might be an easy bolt on to the motor (maybe an exhange or modification of the bell housing to accomplish it, but relatively simple). Considering that the RX7 has already an almost perfect weight distrobution it could really utilize the AWD to a huge benifite of power distrobution.
Thanks ramses666 for the pics. It's so close... so very close. I don't see any modification to the internal structure of the back bone, but maybe I just didn't look close enough.
What i've thought of so far would be that if you have an AWD/4WD tranny with the right length on the shifter bit to align right and the transfer case is able to fit in the back bone without serious modification then it might be an easy bolt on to the motor (maybe an exhange or modification of the bell housing to accomplish it, but relatively simple). Considering that the RX7 has already an almost perfect weight distrobution it could really utilize the AWD to a huge benifite of power distrobution.
Thanks ramses666 for the pics. It's so close... so very close. I don't see any modification to the internal structure of the back bone, but maybe I just didn't look close enough.
04-12-07, 10:28 PM
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I always heard 626 drivetrain, and he had to modify the firewall so the engine could sit back further.....there were also pictures of a 20B all wheel drive 7 floating around...that thing was awsome but the engine sat almost entirely in fron of the front axle...so no one seemed to approve...search around I knwo there is stuff in the internet about them
04-12-07, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thefeez
seems to me the extra weight and loss of power thru the awd would not be worth the benefits on a motor that already suffers from zero torque...
04-13-07, 12:15 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by YaNi
I am pretty sure they used the driveline out of a 323GTX.
The engine's power output would kill the 323GTX drivetrain in a jiffy.
If we're talking about Rod Millen's car, it was a ONE-OFF custom drivetrain that used a 626 FWD transaxle (don't ask me how) that Millen's shop somehow managed to get coupled with the rear.
-Ted
04-13-07, 09:17 AM
#24
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Those pictures were very illuminating.
Millen's 4WD FC used a custom tube chassis covered in a stock body. From the looks of the drivetrain, it (or something similar) *could* fit in a stock FC chassis, but you're looking at some fabrication. The transmission tunnel, front end, steering, and front suspension are going to need some custom fabrication. Chances are, you'll want to relocate as many systems as possible (the battery, engine bay fuse box, etc) to make room.
You'll probably need to chop off the front of the car's unit body and construct a tube frame; that'll give you more space to package the front differential. Maybe go to a dry sump pan for more ground clearance.
Millen's 4WD FC used a custom tube chassis covered in a stock body. From the looks of the drivetrain, it (or something similar) *could* fit in a stock FC chassis, but you're looking at some fabrication. The transmission tunnel, front end, steering, and front suspension are going to need some custom fabrication. Chances are, you'll want to relocate as many systems as possible (the battery, engine bay fuse box, etc) to make room.
You'll probably need to chop off the front of the car's unit body and construct a tube frame; that'll give you more space to package the front differential. Maybe go to a dry sump pan for more ground clearance.
04-13-07, 10:29 PM
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Seems kind of an interesting setup, while being fairly straight forward (not saying that it is an easy thing to do)
I think the tubular construction of the frame might have been to reinforce the chasis while not sacrificing tons of weight (as compared to straight forward reinforcment of the uni-body). It also looks like He changed over the rear to a solid axel--perhaps to handel excess power delivery to the rear?