Does anyone have them? Opinions?

 

Assuming you're referring to the DTSS rear toe-eliminator bushings, I have them and they are a great mod if you like carving curves at near limit. The steering is much more predictable.

Putting aside the installation cost, I think it's the best low $ mod for an FC.

 

there are delrin bushing kits for all suspension bushings as well as the rear toe eleiminators. these are very good but are a high maintenace racing type part. they are very hard but need to be kept clean and lubricated, this is ok for race cars which tend to be inspected and maintained different from a street driven car. for a car that is street driven I would use the urethane bushings instead. these will tolerate more abuse and don't need as much maintenance. ther is not a noticeable drop in performance between the two and the urethane ones are much cheeper.

 

In my opinion, upgrading the F&R subframe and F&R control arms to Derlin, and adding the toe-eliminator Derlin bushings is one of the best suspension upgrades for the FC. Chassis roll is virtually eliminated, but the ride is bumpy.

The one bad thing is that Derlin is VERY hard. Installing these can be tricky, and it took me almost 30 hours to install all of the above mentioned. Other than that, great upgrade.

 

Great, Thanks for all the resposes.

I figure this car will be pushed to the limit someday, Single turbo upgrade, ect ect. So I think I might go with the delrin now. One question, what kind of matenence do these bushings require? And how harsh would these be with a mazdaspeed coilover setup?

 

I'd lubricate them every 6-8 months to make sure they are fitted correctly in place, so they aren't sticking or rubbing. Other than that, nothing. Don't know anything about the mazdaspeed coilover setup, sorry. I just do a visual inspection seasonally on my Derlin setup to see that everything looks good.

 

the derlin ones will make alot more noise, and won't last as long as the urethane ones. they are also way more $$, I wouldn't go derlin unless it's a full race car only driven at the track.

 

Derlin is VERY hard and has Self Lubricating properties, it needs to be kept clean though, a lot of Electronic Paintball markers have Derlin bolts as apposed to alloy, however it does react and has been known to swell when in contact with liquod lubricants

 

I thought that Delrin was self-lubricating, too. Do you have a reference for the lubricating procedure?

Note that they are very stiff, make more noise, and only last about 10,000 miles.

 

Im interested in purchasing the Delrin bushings from mazda competition. The ones that go between the subframe and the body...I would purchase urethane ones but I cant find anyone that makes them. If you are using them, just wanted to know if you had lots of vibration? Any real significant improvements in handling?

 

anyone know of urethane bushings for FCs? and the usual questions, how much? where at? how about the quality?

 

Delrin is really too hard - the chassis will rattle like a ****!
The only other bushing kit out there is by Energy Suspension.

http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/MODS/SUS/others.htm



-Ted

 

I've got Delrin in the RX-7, but no idea how bad it's going to be yet. Car's not finished.

PaulC

 

the only subframe ones I've seen are derlin. I doubt the subframe bushings do anything towards the comfort. control arm bushings do, that's why they make them out of both.

 

I had installed the ES kit bushings on my stock (GXL/TII) sway bars and it made a noticeable difference. Nice and firm.

Delrin body bushings probably wouldn't hurt. They will transmit more vibrations to the body of the car from the subframes, in fact probably not much less than metal ones would. The should be no harm of stress cracks, though. If you were going to have metal or nylon suspension (LCA, strut, sway bar, etc) bushings, that would definitely make for a harsh ride. It would give new meaning to "handles like it's on rails" though...

Ren

 

I just wish JimLab would make an unobtainium set of bushings for the FC.

Maybe if we petition the guy...

 

If there's enough interest, I'd be willing to produce a set for the FC. However, there are two new sets for other cars in development right now, so those would have to be finished first. I'd also need suspension components from an FC, but the donor would receive them back with a free set of bushings installed...

 

Delrin is more brittle than Nylon, but structurally there isn't a large difference in the two plastics.

It's a common misconception that replacing the bushings will make the ride harsh. The bushings, however, act as pivot points for the suspension first and foremost, and as isolation for the cabin from road noise second. That's why they're made from rubber, which has great harmonic dampening qualities. Nylon or Delrin will transmit more road noise to the cabin, but that's it.

The "harshness" or quality of the ride is dictated more by your selection of shock and spring, as well as the sidewall height of your tire. Everyone knows that a car on 70-series tires won't corner well, but it will ride much smoother than a car on 35-series tires. The tires act as a large air "spring" and cushion the passenger from irregularities in the road. In much the same way, your shock and spring combination provide either a cushion or a stiff jolt, depending on the spring rate and the valving of the shock. The bushings do nothing to lessen or increase the harshness of the ride.

If you find this difficult to believe, ask some of the 200+ FD owners with Unobtainium nylon bushings on their cars, especially those who were timid about the increase in ride harshness, what they think of the before and after. I have dozens of customer testimonials that the ride harshness did not increase, and that performance was a night and day difference because of the absolute elimination of bushing deflection. Ride noise does increase somewhat, but 99.9% have stated that it is very livable, and some said not really noticeable at all. Only one person has taken his differential bushings (the only bushings he bought or installed) back off the car and complained of starter noise and gear whine being transferred to the cabin.

As stiff as Nylon and Delrin are, there is still a big difference between a plastic bushing and a solid metal bushing. The Nylon will deflect if pushed hard enough, and has excellent "memory" properties. In other words, it returns again and again to its original dimensions. A rubber bushing or urethane bushing will eventually lose its firmness due to work and heat cycling. A solid metal bushing, on the other hand, has no give whatsoever. There's also a difference in the vibration transmission qualities of metal and plastic. Metal is definitely worse... ride in a race car with a full spherical rod-end suspension some time.

 

If you make the bushings for the FC count me in for 2 sets!!

 

Hey jimlab, let me know when you wanna make a set for the FC and I'll be happy to strip my 86 GXL down and provide you with the bits to make a set.

 

Anyone know if there were any mid-year suspension component changes, or are all 2nd gen. suspension pieces interchangeable?

 

the front control arms are different for 86-88 and 89-91 but the bushings are the same. also the front and rear endlinks are different if you were planing on making those.

 

Thanks Scott. I'll need to get a couple projects finished up before I can look into this, but if there's enough interest, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

you'll be a hero to 2/3 of us instead of just FDs
Go for it! I'm sure that there are qutie a few 1st gen racecars who would be interested but one care at a time, right jim
Hmmm I just saw some guy in a datsun 2*0ZX in a movie wreck, don't see those on TV much.

And jim, fantastic signature, absolute brilliance

 

Uh, I beg to differ...

One of the biggest drawbacks about Nylon is that it's hygroscopic.&nbsp With the presence of moisture, the strength of Nylon deteriorates.&nbsp Running these things UNDER the car is just asking for trouble.&nbsp (Do we all drive in the desert?)

Delrin, on the other hand, is unaffected my moisture.&nbsp Hardness and physical characteristics are virtually the same with Nylon.&nbsp Delrin is a bit more resistant to chemicals and petroleums; Nylon tends to swell when doused with chemicals or petroleum based fluids.&nbsp Both deteriorate under attack from acid.

I'd like to see long-term experiences from those running these Nylon bushings, especially from owners who live in humid area or areas with constant moisture, like rain...



-Ted