Another headlight switch?
06-26-10, 10:07 AM
#26
Lights only came on because i had jumped Red wire to W/L
WHile they were jumped If you hit the high beam switch it would just turn the lights off. or on.
I dont kow if its the highbeams working or the running lights.
NO, the blue high beam indicator has not worked at all.
WHile they were jumped If you hit the high beam switch it would just turn the lights off. or on.
I dont kow if its the highbeams working or the running lights.
NO, the blue high beam indicator has not worked at all.
When Red and W/L are jumpered and the lights come on you can tell whether it's the high beams or not by checking for voltage on the R/W wire=high beam or the R/B wire=low beam. These wires are present at the dimmer relay and the headlights themselves. This is an easy check.
06-26-10, 10:19 AM
#27
You turn the headlight switch to ON. The headlights pop up. But the lights don't come on.
You said in post #15 that the lights do come on if you go to high beams with the high beam switch (Dimmer switch). So when you do this, does the high beam indicator on the dash light up? The blue light?
IF so, then I'd guess your low beam filiments have burnt up in the light bulbs themselves. It's not that uncommon for both go go at once. Or maybe the contacts inside the Dimmer relay have gone bad.
To find out, I'd connect everything up and turn the headlights on. Assuming that no lights come on, then I'd go find the DIMMER RELAY and pull its plug off. Set the relay to the side. Now jumper the RED GREEN wire to the RED WHITE wires in the dimmer relays plug. The high beams should come on and the blue indicator light comes on.
Then jumper the RED GREEN wire to the RED BLACK wire in the connector. The low beams should come on. If they don't, then the filiments in both headlights have gone **** up for the low beams and you need new bulbs/headlights.
If your car is a series five forget anything I wrote and forget I answered this post. I don't mess with series five headlight no 'mo.
And when you write W/B, that does not describe a white wire with a blue stripe. It describes a white wire with a black stripe. A white wire with a blue stripe is W/L.
The wires in the dimmer relays plug should look like in the jpg attached. A six socket plug with two R/G, a R/W, a R/B, a W and one empty socket
You said in post #15 that the lights do come on if you go to high beams with the high beam switch (Dimmer switch). So when you do this, does the high beam indicator on the dash light up? The blue light?
IF so, then I'd guess your low beam filiments have burnt up in the light bulbs themselves. It's not that uncommon for both go go at once. Or maybe the contacts inside the Dimmer relay have gone bad.
To find out, I'd connect everything up and turn the headlights on. Assuming that no lights come on, then I'd go find the DIMMER RELAY and pull its plug off. Set the relay to the side. Now jumper the RED GREEN wire to the RED WHITE wires in the dimmer relays plug. The high beams should come on and the blue indicator light comes on.
Then jumper the RED GREEN wire to the RED BLACK wire in the connector. The low beams should come on. If they don't, then the filiments in both headlights have gone **** up for the low beams and you need new bulbs/headlights.
If your car is a series five forget anything I wrote and forget I answered this post. I don't mess with series five headlight no 'mo.
And when you write W/B, that does not describe a white wire with a blue stripe. It describes a white wire with a black stripe. A white wire with a blue stripe is W/L.
The wires in the dimmer relays plug should look like in the jpg attached. A six socket plug with two R/G, a R/W, a R/B, a W and one empty socket
True or false, the R/W wire in the headlight harness provides the ground signal for both the headlights to turn on as well as to get them to pop up?
True or false, R/W travels through the headlight harness then mates up with the cluster harness then mates up with the front harness which ends up at the headlight harness as W/L?
True or false, if the B wire was jumpered to R/W at the headlight harness (headlight switch end) could the headlight harness be disconnected where the headlight harness mates up with the cluster harness and at the headlight harness side measure the voltage on the R/W wire to see if it was putting out a proper ground-no voltage?
The original poster replaced the headlight switch and was greeted with the same results, no lights. Could be coincidence, but couldn't the problem be a manifestation of a bad harness? On the first headlight switch the W/L wire had 1 to 4 volts when the **** was turned to turn the lights on rather than having a ground which prevents the headlight relay from showing whether or not it is in proper working condition.
06-26-10, 10:49 AM
#28
junito:
When Red and W/L are jumpered and the lights come on you can tell whether it's the high beams or not by checking for voltage on the R/W wire=high beam or the R/B wire=low beam. These wires are present at the dimmer relay and the headlights themselves. This is an easy check.
When Red and W/L are jumpered and the lights come on you can tell whether it's the high beams or not by checking for voltage on the R/W wire=high beam or the R/B wire=low beam. These wires are present at the dimmer relay and the headlights themselves. This is an easy check.
I used the wire colors mentioned by you in your previous post, but in reviewing what I wrote I saw the mistake and I did just wake up, but it is the Red wire jumpered to the Red/Green wire and not the W/L wire! Now for some cereal!
06-26-10, 02:19 PM
#29
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Page 50-50............you turn the headlight switch to full on. That puts a ground on the R/W wire on page 50-50...........the R/W wire turns into a W/L or white/blue wire on page 50-48 and this attaches to the headlight relay to put a gnd on it's coil (other side of the coil has batt pwr 24/7 days a week) and so the headlight relay pulls in and passes power from the HEADLIGHT fuse in the engine bay to the DIMMER RELAY and thru the DIMMER RELAY to the headlights themselves.
The Dimmer relay is relaxed unless you pull on the dimmer SWITCH so it should pass pwer to the headlight bulbs no matter which position the Dimmer relay is at at a given moment.
No, on page 50-50 the R/W wire does NOT cause the healight assy to retract or go up/down. No connection at all. The headlight assys go up/down when the headlight switch is turned all the way to ON. That motion causes a gnd to be put on that small coil you see the RED wire going to inside the switch. That relay pulls in and passes power from the Red wire thru the small relay to the retract motors to make them go up/down.
Like I say, I'd put everything back together and put the headlight switch to ON. Then pull the DIMMER relay out and see if there is power on the RED/GREEN wires in that connectors plug. Should be there. IF not, then the problem lies with the headlight relay or its wires and not the Dimmer Relay. If you have power on the RED/GREEN wires of the dimmer relay, then jumper either RED/GREEN to the RED/BLACK. Low beams should work doing this. Then jumper the RED/GREEN to the RED/WHITE and the high beams should come on plus the blue indicator light in the instrument cluster.
This is all series four I'm talking about not series five.
The Dimmer relay is relaxed unless you pull on the dimmer SWITCH so it should pass pwer to the headlight bulbs no matter which position the Dimmer relay is at at a given moment.
No, on page 50-50 the R/W wire does NOT cause the healight assy to retract or go up/down. No connection at all. The headlight assys go up/down when the headlight switch is turned all the way to ON. That motion causes a gnd to be put on that small coil you see the RED wire going to inside the switch. That relay pulls in and passes power from the Red wire thru the small relay to the retract motors to make them go up/down.
Like I say, I'd put everything back together and put the headlight switch to ON. Then pull the DIMMER relay out and see if there is power on the RED/GREEN wires in that connectors plug. Should be there. IF not, then the problem lies with the headlight relay or its wires and not the Dimmer Relay. If you have power on the RED/GREEN wires of the dimmer relay, then jumper either RED/GREEN to the RED/BLACK. Low beams should work doing this. Then jumper the RED/GREEN to the RED/WHITE and the high beams should come on plus the blue indicator light in the instrument cluster.
This is all series four I'm talking about not series five.
06-27-10, 09:59 AM
#30
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
I jumped the RED wire to the Red/Green got the lights on.
CHeck the voltage on the dimmer relay while they were on to see if they are low or highbeam.
ALL the wires in the dimmer relay had 12v except the REd/white
06-27-10, 10:41 AM
#32
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
You say you went to the HEADLIGHT RELAY and pulled the relay and jumpered the RED to the RED/GREEN and got headlights.'
This means to me that when you turn the headlight SWITCH to full ON, that the HEADLIGHT relay is not getting the ground it should be getting OR that the contacts inside the HEADLIGHT RELAY are corroded/no good. FYI it's the W/L wire of the MAIN RELAY that gets this ground from the switch when the switch is put to full ON.
So put all the relays and plugs back on.Then get a piece of wire bare at each end. One end to a known gnd. The other one you put up the backside of the W/L or white/blue wire in the elect plug of the main relay (relay still installed). The relay should click and pull in and the low beams come on. IF this does happen, then for unknown reasons your main relay is not getting the gnd it should on the W/L wire when the headlight switch is put to full ON.
This means to me that when you turn the headlight SWITCH to full ON, that the HEADLIGHT relay is not getting the ground it should be getting OR that the contacts inside the HEADLIGHT RELAY are corroded/no good. FYI it's the W/L wire of the MAIN RELAY that gets this ground from the switch when the switch is put to full ON.
So put all the relays and plugs back on.Then get a piece of wire bare at each end. One end to a known gnd. The other one you put up the backside of the W/L or white/blue wire in the elect plug of the main relay (relay still installed). The relay should click and pull in and the low beams come on. IF this does happen, then for unknown reasons your main relay is not getting the gnd it should on the W/L wire when the headlight switch is put to full ON.
06-27-10, 10:49 AM
#33
You say you went to the HEADLIGHT RELAY and pulled the relay and jumpered the RED to the RED/GREEN and got headlights.'
This means to me that when you turn the headlight SWITCH to full ON, that the HEADLIGHT relay is not getting the ground it should be getting OR that the contacts inside the HEADLIGHT RELAY are corroded/no good. FYI it's the W/L wire of the MAIN RELAY that gets this ground from the switch when the switch is put to full ON.
So put all the relays and plugs back on.Then get a piece of wire bare at each end. One end to a known gnd. The other one you put up the backside of the W/L or white/blue wire in the elect plug of the main relay (relay still installed). The relay should click and pull in and the low beams come on. IF this does happen, then for unknown reasons your main relay is not getting the gnd it should on the W/L wire when the headlight switch is put to full ON.
This means to me that when you turn the headlight SWITCH to full ON, that the HEADLIGHT relay is not getting the ground it should be getting OR that the contacts inside the HEADLIGHT RELAY are corroded/no good. FYI it's the W/L wire of the MAIN RELAY that gets this ground from the switch when the switch is put to full ON.
So put all the relays and plugs back on.Then get a piece of wire bare at each end. One end to a known gnd. The other one you put up the backside of the W/L or white/blue wire in the elect plug of the main relay (relay still installed). The relay should click and pull in and the low beams come on. IF this does happen, then for unknown reasons your main relay is not getting the gnd it should on the W/L wire when the headlight switch is put to full ON.
06-27-10, 10:50 AM
#34
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
If you don't mind could you please test the headlight relay using the following method.
1) disconnect plug from relay
2) take two jumper wires and shove them into the back of the plug where the Red wire is and then take the other two ends of the jumper wires and place one each into the relay itself where the two red wires from the plug would mate with.
3) take a jumper wire and shove it into the back of the plug where the R/G wire is and place the other end into the relay itself where the R/G wire goes.
4) take the last jumper wire needed and put it into the place in the relay itself where the W/L wire would go
and place the other end to a good ground source like the alternator casing. The plug is not used for the W/L wire as it is being bypassed to prove if the relay really works or not.
5) measure the voltage on the R/G wire. If it doesn't have 12 volts then the relay is damaged.
Step #4 guarantees a proper ground.
I did this. Quite a pain int he butt when your trying to do it with regular jumper wires. HEH
ANyways. Disconnected the relay from plug. COnnected all wires to where they should have been except W/L wire that i put directly to a ground.
YOu could hear the relay clicking but the Red/Green has 0 voltage.
1) disconnect plug from relay
2) take two jumper wires and shove them into the back of the plug where the Red wire is and then take the other two ends of the jumper wires and place one each into the relay itself where the two red wires from the plug would mate with.
3) take a jumper wire and shove it into the back of the plug where the R/G wire is and place the other end into the relay itself where the R/G wire goes.
4) take the last jumper wire needed and put it into the place in the relay itself where the W/L wire would go
and place the other end to a good ground source like the alternator casing. The plug is not used for the W/L wire as it is being bypassed to prove if the relay really works or not.
5) measure the voltage on the R/G wire. If it doesn't have 12 volts then the relay is damaged.
Step #4 guarantees a proper ground.
I did this. Quite a pain int he butt when your trying to do it with regular jumper wires. HEH
ANyways. Disconnected the relay from plug. COnnected all wires to where they should have been except W/L wire that i put directly to a ground.
YOu could hear the relay clicking but the Red/Green has 0 voltage.
06-27-10, 10:58 AM
#35
If you don't mind could you please test the headlight relay using the following method.
1) disconnect plug from relay
2) take two jumper wires and shove them into the back of the plug where the Red wire is and then take the other two ends of the jumper wires and place one each into the relay itself where the two red wires from the plug would mate with.
3) take a jumper wire and shove it into the back of the plug where the R/G wire is and place the other end into the relay itself where the R/G wire goes.
4) take the last jumper wire needed and put it into the place in the relay itself where the W/L wire would go
and place the other end to a good ground source like the alternator casing. The plug is not used for the W/L wire as it is being bypassed to prove if the relay really works or not.
5) measure the voltage on the R/G wire. If it doesn't have 12 volts then the relay is damaged.
Step #4 guarantees a proper ground.
I did this. Quite a pain int he butt when your trying to do it with regular jumper wires. HEH
ANyways. Disconnected the relay from plug. COnnected all wires to where they should have been except W/L wire that i put directly to a ground.
YOu could hear the relay clicking but the Red/Green has 0 voltage.
1) disconnect plug from relay
2) take two jumper wires and shove them into the back of the plug where the Red wire is and then take the other two ends of the jumper wires and place one each into the relay itself where the two red wires from the plug would mate with.
3) take a jumper wire and shove it into the back of the plug where the R/G wire is and place the other end into the relay itself where the R/G wire goes.
4) take the last jumper wire needed and put it into the place in the relay itself where the W/L wire would go
and place the other end to a good ground source like the alternator casing. The plug is not used for the W/L wire as it is being bypassed to prove if the relay really works or not.
5) measure the voltage on the R/G wire. If it doesn't have 12 volts then the relay is damaged.
Step #4 guarantees a proper ground.
I did this. Quite a pain int he butt when your trying to do it with regular jumper wires. HEH
ANyways. Disconnected the relay from plug. COnnected all wires to where they should have been except W/L wire that i put directly to a ground.
YOu could hear the relay clicking but the Red/Green has 0 voltage.
06-27-10, 11:13 AM
#37
You've had 2 issues with your headlights not working properly and now you have shown that the relay you tested was one of them. You now need to address the dimmer relay and see if the White wire has no voltage when you try to turn the high beams on. Chances are it will have voltage which would explain why you are not getting the high beams to turn on.
06-27-10, 11:20 AM
#38
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
I must have the highbeams on?
SO jumper red to W/L to get the lights on. We know its the low beams due to earlier test. Hit high beam switch. Then check the dimmer relay White wire for voltage?
IS this the correct way to check it?
SO jumper red to W/L to get the lights on. We know its the low beams due to earlier test. Hit high beam switch. Then check the dimmer relay White wire for voltage?
IS this the correct way to check it?
06-27-10, 11:26 AM
#39
EDIT: R/W at the dimmer relay should have voltage on it if the dimmer relay was working properly. That is when you pull back the lever to engage the high beams if the relay did its job correctly, then the R/W wire would have battery voltage.
06-27-10, 11:35 AM
#40
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
OK.
low beams white wire = 12 volts
High beams white wire = 1-2 volts
The problem happened when i originally tried using the highbeams to show my buddy how the FTP work.
low beams white wire = 12 volts
High beams white wire = 1-2 volts
The problem happened when i originally tried using the highbeams to show my buddy how the FTP work.
06-27-10, 11:44 AM
#41
You could try to force the issue and use just one jumper wire, yes, just one, and place one end into the back of the plug where the White wire is and place the other end to a known grounding point and doing this with the Red jumpered to Red/Green, the high beams should turn on as R/W should have 12 volts on it. Also, when doing the White wire jumpering check to see if the high beam indicator lights up or not.
06-27-10, 12:13 PM
#42
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
OK got the lights on by jumping the Red to red green. Lights are on low beam.
I never witched to highbeam on the switch.
But as soon as i grounded the dimmer relay white wire the lights cut off. The relay clicks.
But as soon as i grounded they turned off. Took ground off they came back on.
I never witched to highbeam on the switch.
But as soon as i grounded the dimmer relay white wire the lights cut off. The relay clicks.
But as soon as i grounded they turned off. Took ground off they came back on.
06-27-10, 12:23 PM
#43
OK got the lights on by jumping the Red to red green. Lights are on low beam.
I never witched to highbeam on the switch.
But as soon as i grounded the dimmer relay white wire the lights cut off. The relay clicks.
But as soon as i grounded they turned off. Took ground off they came back on.
I never witched to highbeam on the switch.
But as soon as i grounded the dimmer relay white wire the lights cut off. The relay clicks.
But as soon as i grounded they turned off. Took ground off they came back on.
06-27-10, 01:50 PM
#44
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Here's something that might help you: THE WHITE WIRE IS SUPPOSED TO GET A GROUND ON IT FOR THE DIMMER RELAY TO WORK!
The Latch Control Circuit puts a GROUND on the WHITE wire when you toggle to high beams. The WHITE wire does not get voltage.
You may be able to READ voltage on the WHITE wire with a meter but your just backreading voltage thru a internal circuit of the LCCT. The voltage reading on the WHITE wire is of no value to know about.
Jumpering RED to RED/GREEN on the HEADLIGHT RELAY and the low beams working means: your problem lies with the HEADLIGHT RELAY and not the dimmer relay. Either the HEADLIGHT RELAY is not getting a gnd from the headlight switch (via W/L), or the headlight relay is bad internally.
The Latch Control Circuit puts a GROUND on the WHITE wire when you toggle to high beams. The WHITE wire does not get voltage.
You may be able to READ voltage on the WHITE wire with a meter but your just backreading voltage thru a internal circuit of the LCCT. The voltage reading on the WHITE wire is of no value to know about.
Jumpering RED to RED/GREEN on the HEADLIGHT RELAY and the low beams working means: your problem lies with the HEADLIGHT RELAY and not the dimmer relay. Either the HEADLIGHT RELAY is not getting a gnd from the headlight switch (via W/L), or the headlight relay is bad internally.
06-27-10, 01:58 PM
#45
Here's something that might help you: THE WHITE WIRE IS SUPPOSED TO GET A GROUND ON IT FOR THE DIMMER RELAY TO WORK!
The Latch Control Circuit puts a GROUND on the WHITE wire when you toggle to high beams. The WHITE wire does not get voltage.
YOu may be able to READ voltage on the WHITE wire with a meter but your just backreading voltage thru a internal circuit of the LCCT. The voltage reading on the WHITE wire is of no value to know about.
The Latch Control Circuit puts a GROUND on the WHITE wire when you toggle to high beams. The WHITE wire does not get voltage.
YOu may be able to READ voltage on the WHITE wire with a meter but your just backreading voltage thru a internal circuit of the LCCT. The voltage reading on the WHITE wire is of no value to know about.
06-27-10, 02:39 PM
#46
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
When you ground the White wire via a jumper wire you need to check for voltage on the R/W wire at the same relay for voltage. If there is by some chance voltage, then that means the high beam headlight filaments are no longer working and if the R/W wire does not have voltage after doing the above that "should" mean the dimmer relay is damaged.
The Red/white wire had no voltaGE.
The headlight FUse in the engine bay did not pop but there is evidence of it heating up and turnng the pink plastic black i a small area. Not melted and did not pop. I already tried putting a new once and it doesnt help any.
06-27-10, 02:55 PM
#47
AGian. When i grounded the white the lights turned off.
The Red/white wire had no voltaGE.
The headlight FUse in the engine bay did not pop but there is evidence of it heating up and turnng the pink plastic black i a small area. Not melted and did not pop. I already tried putting a new once and it doesnt help any.
The Red/white wire had no voltaGE.
The headlight FUse in the engine bay did not pop but there is evidence of it heating up and turnng the pink plastic black i a small area. Not melted and did not pop. I already tried putting a new once and it doesnt help any.
One thing you could do is use a test light and connect the ground wire of the test light to the White wire and the positive wire to a positive source which you could use one of the Red wires from the headlight relay plug and if the light lights up you have a ground on the White wire.
06-27-10, 03:11 PM
#48
HAILERS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
AGian. When i grounded the white the lights turned off.
The Red/white wire had no voltaGE.
The headlight FUse in the engine bay did not pop but there is evidence of it heating up and turnng the pink plastic black i a small area. Not melted and did not pop. I already tried putting a new once and it doesnt help any.
The Red/white wire had no voltaGE.
The headlight FUse in the engine bay did not pop but there is evidence of it heating up and turnng the pink plastic black i a small area. Not melted and did not pop. I already tried putting a new once and it doesnt help any.
No power on the R/W because the contacts are bad inside the Dimmer relay.
The lights were on prior to grounding the White wire because the power from the R/G wire was passing thru another set of internal contacts in the Dimmer relay.
Jumper the R/G to the R/W and the High beams will come on along with the blue indicator light.......proving the dimmer relay is kaput.
06-27-10, 03:32 PM
#49
If the dimmer relay is damaged then that means you had two relays within your headlight circuit ruined at the same time. There has to be something rudimentarily wrong with this circuit beyond just those two relays. Chances are the switch, associated harness and or the remaining wiring in addition to the two relays is in need replacement. Sorry
06-27-10, 04:00 PM
#50
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Thread Starter
I agree something is wrong with both relays going out at the same time along with the headlight fuse heating up quite bad i just looked at it again and the fuse looks worse than i thought.
If the headlight come on with being jumpered i believe the high beams would to so i dont believe i will try it unless you guys think its essential
I also dont believe its the switch. It has to be something else.
If the headlight come on with being jumpered i believe the high beams would to so i dont believe i will try it unless you guys think its essential
I also dont believe its the switch. It has to be something else.