Blake

The windage tray is to reduce oil aeration before returning to the pan and help control the slosh within it. Obviously, it's not there to prevent the crank from whipping the oil to foam, as it would be on a piston engine car.

Why on God's-green-earth would we heat treat an aluminum oil pan? The other guy who brought that up...well, no comment.

tonybcrazy

Well heat treating aluminum usually involves fully solutioning it annealing it and then artifically aging it. The sollutioning is to ensure that it has uniform properties throughout. The annealing will remove any residual internal stresses that result from uneven cooling during the casting process. This is important for the pan to act as a strengthening device. With out this step the heat cyclying from the pan being on the engine and its unsymetical shape will cause it to put small stresses on the engine not help strengthen it from them. Lastly the artificial aging hardens and strengthens the aluminum. Doing all these things would help with the maching of the pans dramatically. As cast aluminum is the metal equivelent to pine sap as far as cutters are concerned. It sticks to them and just makes for a difficult time. Also A356 which is probably what that pan is is hard to maintain dimensionally because of its soft unstable nature.

Someone showed thick plate used in a dry sump application. It was probably 6061-T6 or 7075-T6. The T6 means that the metal was furnace solutioned, quenched, then furnace aged. This is done to imporve strength in the material.

The pan wont be adding much to engine strength unless its heat treated properly. Probably not worth it though since it would be expensive especially since aging it involves bringing the metal up to about 380 F and holding it there for 20hrs. Just food for thought.

Carzy Driver

very nice oil pans, just can't see that much for a slightly higher volume oil pan. I just bought a running TII for 250.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Beautiful product... Maybe in the future when I'm finishing the details on my TII I'll consider upgrading the stock pan.

All debate aside, Pineapple deserves a big---> from the rotary community for continuing to market to a relatively small group of die-hards.

brian3627

it kills me that nobody really understands how much work goes in to making a new part and assumes that the manufactuer makes a killing i work as the head of r&d for an intake company and regardless of what everyone thinks any new part has had many hours of r&d. Another thing most of you dont relize is that any cast part made will include a tooling charge to set everything up. The fact that some one is making such a nice part should make every one happy i know id run it on my car

Wankel7

I am curious how much extra oil it holds too...

Can you just fill it with water...pour the water into a jar and measure it. Fill a stock pan...and pour the water into a jar measure it. And tell us what the difference is?

James

Blake

Again, no comment. Anything I had to say would turn the thread into a flame war or, at the very least, take it WAAAAAAY off topic. Let's please drop this or, if you prefer, start a new thread on the subject and you can argue all you want.

Blake

Well said.

Blake

Our aluminum pan is 5.75 US Quarts vs. the stock 4.70 US Quarts for the stock pan, so it gains just over 1 US Quart.

--
Blake

tonybcrazy

I know how much goes into making new products I do it on a daily basis for my school since I'm on the payroll and they use their cnc equipment to make money for the department. I have had prototyping expirience since highschool also.

But anyways I am raising these points because of stuff you are claiming about the pan. I could be proved wrong very quickly with solid numbers of how that pan performs vs stock -vs a piece of 6061-T6 3/4" Plate. Like "We crucnched the numbers and a stock pan can withstand a xx lb ft bending moment a plate could withstand a xx lb ft bending moment and our pan was able to withstand a xx lb ft bending moment wich was a 25% increase over stock and only marginally less than the plate."

Do you recommend not changing your oil as often while using your pan if so whats the interval?

How much of a decrease in oil temps did your test car see while using the pan vs stock?

How much more rigid will it make an engine? Will I see numbers differences on the dyno or perhaps will my engine go longer between rebuilds?

Maybe I am just a stickler but I like to know everything possible about a part and its performance claims while being able to see proof.

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Thats to nice to install!!

Blake

Look, you are free to go start your own thread but please leave this one alone. We have established that your expertise is that you are a student who took an independent summer study...that's it. You aren't even a potential customer. We never claimed longer oil change intervals or lower oil temps. The engine stiffness is a real feature, despite your failure to understand the practical aspects. We see the proof in bearing life of high-output rotary engines with aluminum pans (like our FD pan). I'm not going to get into this line of questioning any further. Either you are interested in buying one or you are not. If not, fine, but please don't raise every objection possible that enters your young mind from something you read in a book or heard in class. We invested tens of thousands of dollars and many months to develop a new and useful product for the rotary world that is AFFORDABLE. If you want a $1,000+ MIL SPEC oil pan, you are absolutely free to make one. Please do. I would love an opportunity to critique you on a public forum. Now, go away.

Blake

Thanks. We wanted to put the icing on the cake and I think it came out great. If anyone wants one for a decoration, I'm sure we can sell them separately.

You posted the illustration; did you see the photo of the real thing?

tonybcrazy

Yeah the oil change thing I picked up from a thread that was just below one of yours but not yours. But if an engineer takes the time to put cooling fins on something isn't it a resonable assumption that they are doing some cooling and not just for show?

Your info about high output FDs is good though since its actual proof.

I guess I'll stop bumping this thread up to the top though.

If you want to critique my work I posted about a billet coolant neck that I made in all of 8 hours using cnc that I programed myself using as much as full 4 axis machining. I plan on selling them but money is to tight right now to shell out for stuck and I have to many other machining obligations.

Tech_Greek

-- I'll freaking bump it!

WHEN CAN WE ORDER THESE MR PINEAPPLE RACING?!?!?

Blake

Soon...soon. We just bought 100 drain plugs today, at a buck each. We have all the oil pan bolts in stock and our fastener supplier has the longer engine mount bolts. We ordered a bunch of viton for o-rings but have enough in stock to handle the first twenty or so orders. The pans have been promised to us tomorrow by the machinist...I'll believe it when I see them in my hands. Rob and I are rethinking the vertical baffles...we had some SS ones cut with the windage trays, intending to fasten them to the windage trays but are now thinking of welding some aluminum ones to the bottom of the pan itself. That won't cause more than a day or two delay if we go that route.

turbo-polak

would making the flage thicker be a problem??

the thicker= the stronger for the motor, no?

my motor isnt dowled, and ill be making 300-340whp, any way to make it last i will invest in


nice product! i might have to order one up.


edit: also its a drift car, so with the baffle wont starve the oil pump, right?

Blake

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. The thicker flange shouldn't present any real problems. If you have good motor mounts, you might want to shim up the other one to get the engine perfectly level (we can provide spacers) but that is the one that is typically sagged anyway. We may also offer machined-down engine mounts as well.

The idea of the baffles is to help control the oil, so it doesn't run away from the pickup in corners. The added volume also helps that quite a bit.

turbo-polak

what i meant to ask is, could you guys make it a little thicker...

but im guessing its too late...

how much thicker is it than a stock pan, and would it be worth it for me to buy it, just for the strengthening factor?, nevermind the oil level and baffle for now..

Wankel7

Any chance your drain plugs are magnetic?

James

Wankels-Revenge

I agree!! Thanks for the work you put into this....it looks incredible. Next time I have to change the oil pan gasket i'll definetly look into replacing the entire pan with one of these...

Blake

They are not magnetic, but it would be easy to drill a hole, insert a small magnet and peen it in place. As far as I know, these o-ringed, internal wrenching drain plugs are not available in a magnetic variety, so modifying them is the only option.

Blake

Oh, okay, I understand what you are asking now. No, that's not remotely an option at this point, nor do I think it would be a good idea. The added rigidity of the pan is not just in the thickness of the rail but the whole structure of the pan. In ultra-high horsepower engines we might recommend the upgrade to M8x1.25 oil pan bolts (stock is M6), but that is not something we suggest for the DIYer because you have to drill and tap 21 holes in the block and any screwups are a royal PITA.

The added stiffness is something that is definitely worth while for high-HP engines (say, 375bhp+). Think of it like chassis stiffness...in such cases more is always better. Not only will the bearing benefit, but it takes some strain off the dowel pins, etc. For lower-HP engines, the effect is much more minimal and should not be the only reason for upgrading.

--
Blake

IAN

iTrader: (3)

No I did not see the real thing. Today for some reason none of the pictures show up on the screen and I cannot get onto the website "pineapple."

awesome work. Seriously considering getting one.

Blake

The server is apparently down. I can't even get our hosting company's main page to come up, so it's not just us. Probably related to the severe weather back east. Stay tuned.