RylAssassin

Im seriuosly considering getting a Haltech.
I just need to know some important things about the Haltech. First of all i own an 88 TII and my mods are in my sig. The main reason(s) i want to buy a Haltech is to clean up my engine bay, get rid of my idle problems, solve my 3500 hesitation, get rid of my AFM, And the obvious power gains. But what i need to know is:
1. How easy is it to install a Haltech?
2. How is it actually tuned?
3. Can i somehow pass emissions with a Halthec?
4. Is it possible to solve the problems listed above with a Haltech?

Thanks guys.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Im going haltech soon, its in the mail currently and i still have ot build my engine however

1. Seems pretty easy if you can follow directions
2. Tuned by a laptop using some software (DOS for the 36k, windows for e11)
3. Its possible to pass emissions, just have to tune it right i spose
4. Idle problem is probly not ems related so no, 3500 hesitation is a grounding issue i though or ive been under that impression so no on that count also. Yes you will make more power

again i dont have and have not yeat installed a haltech, just answered from what ive been told and read around here

-Jacob

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

3800 RPM hesitation is a grounding issue yes, but it only effects the stock ECU.

Have you considered the Microtech as well? Software sucks, but most people don't need the whole Haltech experience, and the Microtech is cheaper (and in my opinion) easier...

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I also have microtech and weighed the pros and cons between haltech and microtech! I ended up with microtech because I did not need all the bells and whistles.

Side Note: Aaron are you going microtech or sticking with S-Afc?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I'm going Microtech. Decided last May.

GUITARJUNKIE28

haltech retains the closed loop feature which improves gas milage and reduces emissions, so in theory, with everything properly tuned, it won't burn any dirtier under light load conditions.

however---

you won't pass the visual, so if your smog guy is really bitchy and actually foes do the functionality tests like he's supposed to, you won't pass. at least in california anyway...

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

well as it goes for closed loop it does help but good tunning for the most part seems to get just as good of results see this thread!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=245946

as for millage I happen to know someone whom got 32mpg with his microtech, Now that is with large turbo 550 primaries and 1600 cc secondaries that was with spirited driving also!

So if you relying on closed loop to get you those thing it can help in some instances but don't let that me your deciding factor!

Aaron;
LT-8 or LTX-8 or LT-12 or LTX-12?

I just decided to switch from LT-8 to LT-12!

RylAssassin

Hmm Microtech huh. Well can you guys give me some webisghts where i can do some more research on the 2? That would really help me.
So it seems from what you guys are saying that the emission part is possible with some good tunning but the idle issue is pretty much no way fixable when you go with a standalone?
Thanks.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

good websites are www.microtechefi.com
But the best site to ask question in would be in this very forum;
https://www.rx7club.com/microtech-111/
You can post any questions there ang the many knowlegable people such as Dale 10sec Rx7 will answer any questions you may have that is what I did!

NZConvertible

FYI, injector size has nothing to do with fuel consumption. The only things that affect fuel consumption are airflow and air/fuel ratio.

IMO, closed-loop should not be so quickly dismissed. It is an easy and reliable way to get good mileage. As has been pointed out, it is possible to get even better mileage with the right tuning, but that tuning also comes at a price, because it takes a lot more time on the dyno and road to get it set up right. To save fuel you need lean mixtures at low load, so the transition from low-load to high-load becomes more critical, as it affects drivability and engine safety.

So if you're sacrificing closed-loop because you think extra tuning will make it unnecessary, make sure your tuning budget includes for this.

RylAssassin

Ok wait, im sorry but i dont understand the whole closed loop theory.
As far as gas milage i dident even bring that up im more concered about correcting the problems i currently have with my TII, which is the Idle and hesitation problems.

Project84

"Closed loop" is just the term given for when the computer sets up the most economic fuel deliver. It works like this: Say you are driving down the highway and you set the cruise control. After throttle has not moved for a few seconds, the ECU starts sampling the O2 sensor to see what the air/fuel ratio is. The engine starts injecting less and less fuel until it gets to a setting that will maximize fuel economy and not risk detonation. With the closed loop feature on the Haltech, you can set up the closed loop feature for if you are cruising on the highway. As for installation of the haltech, I found that the actual work is easy. Its just a big wire harness. Its intimidating when you first see it cause its got a lot of wires to it, but once you read the directions, you realize that most of the wires aren't used on the Rotary engine. They have a bunch of wires cause they tried to make it as universal as possible. If you have ever hooked up a car stereo or amplifier or something, then you will not find this much more difficult. The only thing I didn't like was that some of the explanations for which wires to use were a bit vague. I got on the HITman's website here cause it had a better explaination of the wiring for the crank angle sensor and the coil/ignitor assembly for rotary engines. The software is pretty easy to use in my opinion.

RylAssassin

Wow thats a pretty amazing feature. So your saying that the closed loop function actually automatically adjusts fuel so that im getting the maximum fuel efficaincy while driving?? THat is incredible! But does it also do this for normal driving?? And what about if im at the track can i simply select "race mode" and have the Haltech setup for extra fuel at the right rpm's kinda like a S-AFC does?

It would also seem that the Haltec would need a pretty damn good o2 sensor. Does it come with one?

GUITARJUNKIE28

closed loop isn't really for gas milage, although the improved fuel economy is a by-product.

catalytic converters rely on storing oxygen in their catalyst beds. this oxygen is then used to consume the hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide to form carbon dioxide and water.

when operating in closed loop, the computer adjusts the injector pulse width to vary the a/f ratio above and below stociometric. when the engine goes lean, there is more oxygen content in the exhaust and the catalyst "pulls" it in. when the engine goes rich, the oxygen is then released for the hc/co to have something to react with.

newer cars with the 5th gen catalysts are starting to not vary the a/f mixture--at least not as much because the engine control has become so precise (with the help of mass air metering and more precise sensors) that it is no longer needed.

now the stoc. ratio is when you get the best emissions. the best fuel economy will actually come from running leaner. when using premix, my car didn't start the lean miss until my a/f ratio was almost 19:1!! of course i didn't leave it there for reliability purposes though.

hondas have always been really good at running engines lean without excess hydrocarbon emissions. some can actually hold a 20:1 a/f ratio and do just fine. that's one reason they get such good gas milage.

if you wanna know about smog ****, pm me...i'm a host for useless info like that.

NZConvertible

Not quite. As mentioned above, it aims to maintain a stoiciometric mixture. Some modern cars are able to run leaner closed-loop mixtures due to more advanced O2 sensors and ECU's, but our cars can't and neither can any aftermarket ECU.

No, this only works for light-load cruise. Any other time the ECU ignores the O2 sensor and uses its internal fuel maps to determine fuel requirements.

Evil Aviator

The Wolf3D V4 and Haltech E11 allow the user to select the tracking voltage for the O2 sensor, which means that richer or leaner closed-loop mixtures are possible. I believe that Motec products also have this feature.

GUITARJUNKIE28

user definable closed loop parameters????
cool

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

yes closed loop is a good function I agree, But not necessary. As I said you can obtain amazing Gas millage with a pretty serious setup! (by serious I mean High HP) Theorfore the closed loop is something I personally decided to go without due to the fact that Gas millage was what I was after and I can still get this with the Microtech! And thus I saved some money and Am running good numbers!

NZConvertible

Yeah, but that ability is limited by the O2 sensor. The further you get from stoichiometric the less accurate it gets, so the ECU is not getting as close to you're desired A/F ratio as it would stoichiometric.

I believe this fuction is more so you can get closer to stoichiometric, not further from it. The E11 manual even says "This parameter (the O2 target voltage) is usually set to the stoichiometric voltage of the O2 sensor you are using."

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I am currently undecided. 8 is cheaper, yet 12 will be required for the next phase of project Tina...

Evil Aviator

Yes, but they still have the capability to track the voltage, regardless of how consistently the voltage is related to lambda.

You believe incorrectly. You are misinterpreting the wording of the Haltech manual. You are probably thinking of O2 sensor correction maps, which was the old way to set your crossing voltage, and therefore your closed loop target AFR. The standalone EMS has advanced a great deal since last year.

As GUITARJUNKIE28 pointed out, a stoich AFR is primarily for emissions. The best economy AFR for rotary engines is usually slightly leaner than stoich. Also, since you seem to have the Haltech manual, you will notice that there is a separate target idle voltage setting because most engines idle with an AFR richer than stoich.

RylAssassin

So what does all this mean??
What are you guys trying to get at with this debate??

Maxthe7man

It means if you want to use a cat, and have it function properly you must have closed loop...
Some other benefits, of closed loop are, much better fuel economy not only on light load highway cruusing, but by setting your min load shut off correctly, you can attain much better city driving mileage, and reduce fuel consumption at idle..
I use closed loop at idle, mainly because it keeps the plugs clean, even using 11's on the street with premix on a large streetport, they don not foul with closed loop operation..
One side effect of setting the mixture purely lean and not switching back and forth over stoichiometric, is one I completly forgot about in earlier threads, and thats engine life.. As chrysler discovered with the lean burn system, lean means high heat, and setting it constant lean, tends to roast the motor, while I don't think anyone on this forum has a lean set motor running long enough to prove or disprove this on a rotary, but running lean, tends to be hard on engine parts... Go to a junk yard and pull any set of late 70's to early 80's cylinder heads off a motor, and the exhaust valves are always cooked, the seats always cracked.. While our motors have none of these parts , I would suspect, that constant lean overly hot exhaust gases would decrease turbocharger life , and also tend to cuase deformation of the apex seals... I will have to see what the egt's do on my car between set very lean cruise, and closedloop with the stoichiometric rich/lean flick....I know on reciprocating motors, its much easier to find good heads on fuel injected engines than the super lean carb'ed ones...food for thought..Max

NZConvertible

Nope, I'm just thinking of the voltage the O2 sensor outputs at stoichiometric, which the manual seems to indicate is the normal setting for O2 target voltage.

GUITARJUNKIE28

like we said before....closed loop is NOT designed for gas milage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gas milage is a by-product of the leanness. but you can attain better gas milage by tuning for the leanness rather than bouncing above and below stoic...

you are right about the cat functioning properly though. it's possible to get you car to pass the sniffer without closed loop, but to have it (the cat) operate properly under a variety of conditions--like real driving, not just the 15/50, 25/25 no-load tests.

if you run rich all the time, your cat won't store the oxygen needed to react with your bad gases and definately won't function properly.

but who has a cat with a stand alone......honestly?